Turning off the power...

[Wyldwraith]

Dawn is the movie that bugs me the most with "What Ifs", For one thing, it's the only movie where the survivors get along reasonably well..have a great hideous and ridiculously plentiful supplies. These guys were beaten by raiders not zombies, and the raiders beat them because this wasn't about filming a realistic defense during a zombie apocalypse it was about the culmination of the anti-consumerism message GAR was broadcasting. Absent GAR stacking the deck against them these people would've survived. How do you know? Change one single significant "What If" and it becomes an *entirely* different scenario. What if our SWAT boys had drilled everyone until everyone was an excellent shot? What if the other survivors had managed to get through to Flyboy and help him work through his growing recklessness/death wish issues? See what I mean? You watch the other movies and you're left feeling like there's a strong possibility even if everyone pulled together and did their best that death could still be very likely. Night: Ok, everyone's up on the roof out of reach of zombies...no food/water..how do we know the cleanup crew of gun-wielding rednecks wasn't overwhelmed shortly after capping poor Ben? Had the survivors been on the roof they woulda been down with the clean up crew when that happened. Day: Not touching this one, given the people involved I simply cannot imagine them pulling together in the necessary manner. That group's dysfunction ran a LOT deeper than personality conflict. Land: World full of 7.9 billion zombies...eventually even minus the "Big Daddy Phenomena" they were going to exhaust the towns within reach. Fiddler's Green didn't seem to possess a self-sustaining food supply. But Dawn...nigh-endless supplies given the small group, effectively routing the raiders before the Mall was breached would've left the status quo intact. (The re-make is even worse about this. They left for the stupidest reasoning I could conceive of) Just my .02

[Bertors]

I think the smartest thing would have been to contact them ahead of time when the bikers first made contact...give them what they wanted...there was plenty to go around and at least everyone would have remained safe. Peter, Flyboy and Fran took it way to seriously...but that was the point consumerism...the items become the most important thing. Like victims of tornadoes just remember at least everyone was safe...things can be replaced but people can't When the STUFF becomes the most important thing in our lives something is wrong! Exactly. That was the point Romero tried to make. If Flyboy would have stayed cool instead of getting angry at the bikers for taking away "his" stuff, they could just have sat out the biker-invasion.

[SRP76]

I doubt riding it out was an option, anyway. They were doomed. In the context of Romero's hating, Flyboy's just all about the greed. But in a real world context, there is the safety issue: Once the bikers got into the mall, our heroes are dead meat. If they just retreat and let the bikers have the mall, the bikers break every lock, smash every gate, and let in hundreds of the dead. Once they leave, the only thing between our heroes and a hot lunch is a flimsy false wall. NOT GOOD. From that point, the mall is no longer safe. The heroes' lives will then be at risk 24 hours a day, forever. It's more than "stuff"; their lives are at stake.

[Trin]

I don't think they were doomed. I think the bikers would leave as soon as they grabbed the most accessible stuff. They were clearly in a hit and run mode. I don't think the bikers were about to take the time to do an exhaustive search that would've uncovered the stairs. Once the bikers leave the crew can sit in their upstairs apartment no worse off then when they landed. Sure there are zombies in the mall again, but even before the flimsy wall the zombies didn't go up the stairs. With the wall in place they could've stayed a while and assessed their options. They could try to re-secure the mall or just barricade the single door and live off of the supplies they had. I also think Stephen was not motivated by greed but by territoriality. The basic male need to protect your turf. As far as which movie was most survivable, I think Land had better long term potential than Dawn. Land had well equipped soldiers, a trained scavenger group, and enough people to relieve one another. And there simply weren't enough zombies in the immediate area to pose a threat. There is no reason they couldn't have survived indefinitely. Dawn suffered from having only 3 people. Even the best stocked mall/civil shelter is going to run out of food, and they had absolutely no way to scavenge for more.

[SRP76]

Sure there are zombies in the mall again, but even before the flimsy wall the zombies didn't go up the stairs. With the wall in place they could've stayed a while and assessed their options. They could try to re-secure the mall or just barricade the single door and live off of the supplies they had. Fran got attacked up there. And, in the original script, their "haven" got invaded by another deadhead while they were sitting around talking. As Peter said when Roger mentioned them not getting through, "enough of them will". It would only be a matter of time. As far as scavenging, they did have a helicopter. Speaking of which, I want to know: why did it never occur to these fools to take a quick flight to a deserted strip somewhere to get more fuel for the helicopter?! Allowing it to sit there and just rot on an empty tank is ridiculous. Most survivable movie: I have to agree, the folks in Land had the best thing going. Fewer zombies attacking a city than there were attacking a single house in Night (), the invincible Dead Reckoning, miraculously fully-stocked towns nearby (anyone notice how the liquor store was completely untouched, and looked like the stockboy had only left 5 minutes ago?), plenty of weaponry...

[jim102016]

Fran got attacked up there. And, in the original script, their "haven" got invaded by another deadhead while they were sitting around talking. As Peter said when Roger mentioned them not getting through, "enough of them will". It would only be a matter of time. As far as scavenging, they did have a helicopter. Speaking of which, I want to know: why did it never occur to these fools to take a quick flight to a deserted strip somewhere to get more fuel for the helicopter?! Allowing it to sit there and just rot on an empty tank is ridiculous. Most survivable movie: I have to agree, the folks in Land had the best thing going. Fewer zombies attacking a city than there were attacking a single house in Night (), the invincible Dead Reckoning, miraculously fully-stocked towns nearby (anyone notice how the liquor store was completely untouched, and looked like the stockboy had only left 5 minutes ago?), plenty of weaponry... Good question about the fuel. I guess they didn't know the area all that well. Or, they were too busy to see the bigger picture. To go scouting around would have used even more gas that they could not afford to lose.

[sandrock74]

I think they were afraid of using up too much fuel (they only ever stated they were "low", that is a subjective term) OR they got complacent when they took over the mall. They essentially gave up. I think Rogers death took the wind out of their collective sails.

[SymphonicX]

...and just to think that Peter pre-empted the whole thing "that chopper could give us away if someone comes messing around"

[jim102016]

I don't think they were doomed. I think the bikers would leave as soon as they grabbed the most accessible stuff. They were clearly in a hit and run mode. I don't think the bikers were about to take the time to do an exhaustive search that would've uncovered the stairs. Once the bikers leave the crew can sit in their upstairs apartment no worse off then when they landed. Sure there are zombies in the mall again, but even before the flimsy wall the zombies didn't go up the stairs. With the wall in place they could've stayed a while and assessed their options. They could try to re-secure the mall or just barricade the single door and live off of the supplies they had. I also think Stephen was not motivated by greed but by territoriality. The basic male need to protect your turf. As far as which movie was most survivable, I think Land had better long term potential than Dawn. Land had well equipped soldiers, a trained scavenger group, and enough people to relieve one another. And there simply weren't enough zombies in the immediate area to pose a threat. There is no reason they couldn't have survived indefinitely. Dawn suffered from having only 3 people. Even the best stocked mall/civil shelter is going to run out of food, and they had absolutely no way to scavenge for more. While they had a great setup in Land, they certainly had their weak points. Looking at the vehicle storage lot situation alone, which was a defensive disaster, it's obvious that some holes were not plugged well enough. The soldiers there were too comfortable, and who ever was in charge of physical security spent too much time at his desk when he should have been out checking the perimeter.

[Trin]

While they had a great setup in Land, they certainly had their weak points. Looking at the vehicle storage lot situation alone, which was a defensive disaster, it's obvious that some holes were not plugged well enough. The soldiers there were too comfortable, and who ever was in charge of physical security spent too much time at his desk when he should have been out checking the perimeter. That points to the exact reason why they had it better. They weren't being attacked. They were comfortable because the area around them was virtually devoid of threats. No zombies, no competing survival outposts - nothing. They'd gone a very long time without having to worry about defenses. They could've been farming, or rebuilding civil infrastructure, or just about anything. I still think in Dawn they had options after the biker attack had they hidden. The zombies wouldn't have recognized the fake wall quickly enough to be an immediate threat, if they ever figured it out. The reason Fran got attacked was becasue Stephen came out of the stairwell in sight of several zombies. It was clear they'd never gone up the stairs before that. In Dawn they would've had a difficult time scavenging. A pregnant woman, a helicopter pilot, and a swat guy. It would've been easy to get overwhelmed. Even in Land with all their resources things got dicey without their fireworks.

[hadrian0117]

...I have to agree, the folks in Land had the best thing going. Fewer zombies attacking a city than there were attacking a single house in Night... I still think that the cast of Night had the best chance for survival of all four movies. They would've been fine if they worked together and stayed in the house until morning. Cooper's daughter would still have been a problem, but after she turned she'd probally only manage to get one person (Mr or Mrs Cooper or Judy) before someone shot her. Her father would've been a problem unless he was the one she attacked.

[jim102016]

That points to the exact reason why they had it better. They weren't being attacked. They were comfortable because the area around them was virtually devoid of threats. No zombies, no competing survival outposts - nothing. They'd gone a very long time without having to worry about defenses. They could've been farming, or rebuilding civil infrastructure, or just about anything. I still think in Dawn they had options after the biker attack had they hidden. The zombies wouldn't have recognized the fake wall quickly enough to be an immediate threat, if they ever figured it out. The reason Fran got attacked was becasue Stephen came out of the stairwell in sight of several zombies. It was clear they'd never gone up the stairs before that. In Dawn they would've had a difficult time scavenging. A pregnant woman, a helicopter pilot, and a swat guy. It would've been easy to get overwhelmed. Even in Land with all their resources things got dicey without their fireworks. Not having a constant threat turned their readiness into mush. The simple fact that an essential area like motor pool was allowed to rot away defensively showed how much their fortress was an illusion.

[Trin]

I agree. They were lax. And the motor pool was the least of their problems. Don't get me started about the unguarded unfenced river banks. But we're not talking about how much the people made of their situation. The premise was put forth as "even if everyone pulled together and did their best." If they did their best in Land they could've defended against Big Daddy and 5 times the number of zombies he scraped together without getting out of their lawnchairs. I like the survivability of Night as well, but only if we are aware that help will arrive in the morning. If they were truly on their own indefinitely they had a much harder time ahead of them.

[jim102016]

I agree. They were lax. And the motor pool was the least of their problems. Don't get me started about the unguarded unfenced river banks. But we're not talking about how much the people made of their situation. The premise was put forth as "even if everyone pulled together and did their best." If they did their best in Land they could've defended against Big Daddy and 5 times the number of zombies he scraped together without getting out of their lawnchairs. I like the survivability of Night as well, but only if we are aware that help will arrive in the morning. If they were truly on their own indefinitely they had a much harder time ahead of them. But, they DID pull together in Land....more so than in any of the other movies in order to put together a safe refuge. But, they did not go far enough. I don't think it's a fair playing field comparing the different situations. Like you said, help arrived in the morning in Night. The people within the Green had outside forces within the mutated short bus to bail them out. While there was unity in Dawn compared to Day, internal problems led to both their downfalls.

[Trin]

I'm not sure what your point is jim. Are you saying that Dawn was more survivable because the people in Land were lazy? And that lax attitude was a foregone conclusion of their situation? I guess the way I see it if we can play what-if to have the Dawn crew repel the biker invasion of the mall it's just as easy to believe that Riley could've forced Kaufman to institute better defenses against growing zombie intelligence. My point is that Land had more to work with and if the survivors in both movies had used their resources to their best ability Land results in the better situation. Another interesting thing to consider is that at the end of Land there isn't any remaining conflict. The only zombies that were a threat walked away. The human's survival was all but guaranteed.