Who was the bigger loss to the group? (Season 2 discussion)

[Moon Knight]

Dale for the same reasons most of you already mentioned.

[babomb]

Shane. He was the biggest loss without a doubt. He was the most capable of everyone in the group. Dale was an annoying little bleeding heart bitch. I was disappointed everytime an episode ended with Dale still alive. I just wish he would've come back so I could've enjoyed seeing him killed a 2nd time. A moral compass is about as useful in that world as a pair of high heels or a bottle of perfume. Sophias death was a catalyst for the group, but she was of no real value herself. When looked at from the perspective of survival of the group, Shane was hands down the biggest loss. Dale couldn't kill a fly without inner turmoil. Only thing he brought to the group was that RV.

[Zombie Snack]

Never read the comics, but from watching the tv series my entire family and myself included never liked Dale, he seemed so self righteous and condescending, I dont really see him as such a moral compass, more of a moral manipulator. Dale was possibly just as dangerous to the group's survival as Shane, even if Dale's threat was masked behind his deceit, lies and manipulation of situations. I realize Shane went off the deep end, and became a major threat to the group, and had to be dealt with, but Dale was a scheming, manipulator, who would put the entire group's survival at risk to satisfy his own personal belief's. If Dale had survived longer I believe he would have been responsible for the death of several of the group with some of his underhanded actions. I say Shane was the biggest loss.

[Andy]

Great to see im not alone in my interpretation of dale, "Moral Manipulator" is 100% right. Id definitely recommend the comics to any fan, Dale is written 100 times better than in the TV series, he's nowhere near as condescending or controlling and actually a likable character. Shane, while alot shorter lived in the comics is more also likable and easier to sympathize with, he dosnt have this long, dragged out descent into madness and he dosnt come up with stupid mustache twiddling villain style plots to kill rick, its faster played yet far easier to see where Shane is coming from. The writers of the TV series really dropped the ball imo.

[bassman]

I think much of Dale's lack of character development stems from Jeffrey DeMunn's insistence on being released from his contract. When Darabont was given the boot at the beginning of the season Demunn asked to leave, so I think they kinda had to put him aside to focus on other characters and then rushed in his death-by-ninja-zombie scene... I still don't see him as a manipulator, though. Like Lori, his decisions weren't always the best, but he was doing what he thought was right for the group. If nothing else, you have to give him credit for being right about Shane all along.

[AcesandEights]

Shane, biggest loss? Hell no! Shane, biggest loss of potential? Definitely. You can have all the skillsets and a 'survivor's outlook', but if you can't hold it together, what good are you to anyone?

[Andy]

I think much of Dale's lack of character development stems from Jeffrey DeMunn's insistence on being released from his contract. When Darabont was given the boot at the beginning of the season Demunn asked to leave, so I think they kinda had to put him aside to focus on other characters and then rushed in his death-by-ninja-zombie scene... It isnt just dale though, alot of the characters are badly developed and lack depth when compared to their comic counterparts.

[MinionZombie]

Shane, biggest loss? Hell no! Shane, biggest loss of potential? Definitely. You can have all the skillsets and a 'survivor's outlook', but if you can't hold it together, what good are you to anyone? Well said - I recognise Shane's skillset, but like the majority here, such a skillset is potentially a risk to many/all of the group in the hands of a guy who's gone loopy. I wouldn't agree with Andy in saying that Shane's story was better written in the comics. His descent into madness/psychopathy/whatever-you-fancy was much more realistic in the show - a more gradual twisting of the knife in Shane's brain, and the whole Otis situation was the final nudge that pushed him over the edge of the cliff. Bernthal did an excellent job conveying both sides of the conflict within Shane's heart, mind, soul, and being - in the comics, as I believe Kirkman has alluded to, the early death of Shane was a missed opporunity - an opportunity that was grasped with both hands for the TV show. Like bassman, I've said before that Dale's actions were always coming from a position of believing to be doing the right thing (and several times being proved correct), however he was - like all of them - fallible, and his actions didn't always pan out. However, he was quite right, about the importance of maintaining one's humanity when such a thing is at a premium in a world gone to shit. Without it, who do you become? Shane - then The Governor - then who? It's a slippery slope, and you absolutely must rescue said humanity with appropriate muscle - Shane went overboard on the muscle. He was like a bull in a china shop sometimes, whereas Rick is far more considerate of other factors, and thinking long-term, as well as seeking to provide a good role model for his son, albeit within these extreme circumstances.

[shootemindehead]

Shane was really just weak in the end though, so as Aces just pointed out he was no use to anyone cos he couldn't handle his part in a love triangle. He can fire a gun and act the bigshot, but goes to pieces when his fling's husband comes back. Kinda pathetic when you think about it.

[AcesandEights]

It isnt just dale though, alot of the characters are badly developed and lack depth when compared to their comic counterparts. I can't be too letdown by it, though...two completely different mediums. Yes, they could do some serious justice to the characters with lots of dialogue and introspection, but that'd eat into other areas. I think they just need a bit more of a balance and clearer heads on the plot and character directions from the outset of each season, and it's understandable they didn't completely have that in season 2 with all the turmoil over Darabont's departure. Know your target(s) and aim for it with crisp, well gone-over scriptwriting from the outset, eh?

[MinionZombie]

It isnt just dale though, alot of the characters are badly developed and lack depth when compared to their comic counterparts. We mustn't be watching the same show then. Sure, there's some weak spots here and there, and there is definitely a difference between the front-seven and the back-six of season two (the latter being an improvement over the former), however I've been very impressed with the writing on the show.

[Moon Knight]

I can never compare characters between the two mediums cause they are just that. Separate entities. There are no politics involved in the comics so Kirkman had total freedom to write those characters how he wanted. -- -------- Post added at 01:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:51 PM ---------- We mustn't be watching the same show then. Sure, there's some weak spots here and there, and there is definitely a difference between the front-seven and the back-six of season two (the latter being an improvement over the former), however I've been very impressed with the writing on the show. I feel the same exact way.

[acealive1]

i know they had to go with the comic and kill dale....but real life situation? i'd keep my ass near dale at all times to protect him if he's keeping the group sane

[bassman]

i know they had to go with the comic and kill dale.... I take it you haven't read the comics?...

[Trin]

First off, let me say I really did enjoy the Shane character, warts and all. He was multi-faceted. You can't just write him off as a complete villain or totally self-serving. He was a great asset to the group for a long time, and even toward the end they gave us bouts of hope that he'd turn things around. He risked his life several times for various members of the group, to support Rick, to save Lori/Carl, etc. It's a shame they decided to send him off the deep end. Likewise, as much as I personally liked Dale, I have to admit he was manipulative. In fact, he was just as much about the "end justifies the means" as Shane. I can say he was doing things "for the right reasons" but the reality is I just believe in his reasons more. And just like Shane he became worse over time. Hiding the guns was beyond what I could support. And Dale just needed to fall in line with executing Randal. They'd gone too far in his moralistic outlook. Push comes to shove there is an inescapable conclusion for me ... I don't want to end up in a group like Randal's. With members backstabbing each other, leaving them to die, raping the women, picking off other survival groups, etc. It's against my nature. I believe that any group run by Shane unchecked ends up just like Randal's group. While Dale wasn't perfect, he was a strong proponent of keeping the group accountable to basic human decency.