Was Harry Cooper a racist and/or terrible person?

[iluvc2h5oh]

The only alternative, classicly, for dealing with a hysterical woman would be to kiss her. And that just wasn't gonna happen on film in 1968... 100 Rifles? But on the the other point... Was Harry racist... I think so... Does the film come out and say it? No, but we hate when film makers come out and say "XYZ" a great film maker can imply without beating you over the head with it (uhmmm...LOTD?). So why do I think so? How many 40+ men in rural PA were NOT racist in the 60's? No, they were not all in the Klan or out for blood, but I bet many were the.."my daughter better not bring a black guy home"..."Blacks are always looking for government hand-outs" type racists. This is what kinda racist I think Harry is. I think Harry has the idea of the "uppity" black person who is out of his place and Harry thought he sure as hell isnt going to tell me what to do. Harry was the classic, defensive, "I have black friends!" racist.

[Trin]

Ben and Harry disagreed on what was best for obvious reasons given their different siatuations. Ben was unencumbered and mobile. Survival in the outside was more likely for him. Harry had a wife and injured daughter and did not appear to be in the best of conditioning. Mobility was not his strong suit. They were both right. Harry would be more suited to hiding in the basement and that was probably his best chance of success. Heck, they lasted through half the night with people up above, not just zombies. And Ben would be more suited to moving on. He'd made it that long by basically outrunning the people around him. If it weren't for the stupidity of his companions he probably would've been trucking down the highway. I don't see much racism in their dealings. In an age and situation that would be ripe for it too. Hard to say there isn't any coloring (haha - pun intended) their actions, but nothing you can pin them on.

[MoonSylver]

Was Harry a racist? No, I don't think so. It is interesting that you CAN read that into the subtext (as you can MANY OTHER issues of the day) & it WORKS. As others have pointed out, Helen makes a very telling comment on Harry's personality. This+fear for his child+being challenged for control = what happens IMO. One thing I think is interesting is the question, who is right, Ben or Harry? Although you can pick sides & there are compelling arguments either way, one of the things I love is that THERE IS NO CONCLUSIVE PROOF EITHER WAY. You're left with the uneasy feeling (IMO) that either one of them could have been right. Another thing I love to do is compare the original characters vs the remake. The changes in character are varying degrees of subtle, but also more "fixed", with a little less room for interpretation IMO (though they ARE great performances/portrayals nonetheless) In the remake, Cooper is ALMOST exclusively the "cock of the walk". The strutting, arrogant asshole. Ben's failing is clearly shown to be his fixation on his plan, his idea, that he will not listen. Interesting to note that in the remake, they are both wrong, Barb has it right all along. One of the things I love about the original is the characters & their motivations & actions are 100% believable & understandable. Not cliched or fantastical, they come across as real people & how they would react in that kind of crisis. Even if you don't agree with them, you can understand them & why they react the way they do.

[JDFP]

Ben and Harry disagreed on what was best for obvious reasons given their different siatuations. Ben was unencumbered and mobile. Survival in the outside was more likely for him. Harry had a wife and injured daughter and did not appear to be in the best of conditioning. Mobility was not his strong suit. Quick note, I don't disagree with your statement that Ben was probably in much better physical condition than Harry (we don't know except from their physical appearances since we don't have a medical chart on them), but I would like to point out one thing: If a man (or woman, I thinks, though I can't speak for women being that I'm a guy) has a reason to live such as a wife and children and is concerned about them they can turn out to be tougher fighters and much more determined than any man or woman in the best of physical shape. Does physical shape have an influence on it? Of course. But as a guy I'll be the first to admit that purpose (such as protecting family) is a much stronger driving force than anything else. When Harry and Helen are telling their story about escaping from ghouls that attacked their car, use your imagination some. Do you think Karen ran alongside them even scared shitless and bitten? I doubt it. And think of the bump on Harry's head -- I wouldn't say it's jumping to conclusions in saying that he gained that from protecting his family. My personal thoughts... I picture Harry Cooper lifting his daughter up on his back and hauling ass for safety. A few pounds over-weight or not, his purpose was in saving his daughter's life and his wife's life. You do what you have to do in those situations. And regardless of whether Harry is an absolute ass or not, I have a tremendous amount of respect for him as a father in picturing him running like hell with his daughter on his back and looking out for his wife trying to get them to safety. Just think of how far they had to run. Harry Cooper was many things, but he DID love his daughter probably above everything else (the scene where he tries to reach her before he dies is actually really touching to me), of that I have no doubt, and I respect that he did try to protect his family and didn't leave them behind. Ass-hole, potential racist, and control-freak -- I won't disagree with these. He was a flawed man for sure. But the man does deserve some degree of respect for trying to do what he thought was best in protecting his family and being there for his daughter -- that's a hell of alot more than what can be said for entirely too many men. Granted, this is opinionated conjecture on events only mentioned (not actually shown) in NOTLD, but that's just my own imagining in picturing it happen... j.p.

[Philly_SWAT]

Quick note, I don't disagree with your statement that Ben was probably in much better physical condition than Harry (we don't know except from their physical appearances since we don't have a medical chart on them), but I would like to point out one thing: If a man (or woman, I thinks, though I can't speak for women being that I'm a guy) has a reason to live such as a wife and children and is concerned about them they can turn out to be tougher fighters and much more determined than any man or woman in the best of physical shape. Does physical shape have an influence on it? Of course. But as a guy I'll be the first to admit that purpose (such as protecting family) is a much stronger driving force than anything else. When Harry and Helen are telling their story about escaping from ghouls that attacked their car, use your imagination some. Do you think Karen ran alongside them even scared shitless and bitten? I doubt it. And think of the bump on Harry's head -- I wouldn't say it's jumping to conclusions in saying that he gained that from protecting his family. My personal thoughts... I picture Harry Cooper lifting his daughter up on his back and hauling ass for safety. A few pounds over-weight or not, his purpose was in saving his daughter's life and his wife's life. You do what you have to do in those situations. And regardless of whether Harry is an absolute ass or not, I have a tremendous amount of respect for him as a father in picturing him running like hell with his daughter on his back and looking out for his wife trying to get them to safety. Just think of how far they had to run. Harry Cooper was many things, but he DID love his daughter probably above everything else (the scene where he tries to reach her before he dies is actually really touching to me), of that I have no doubt, and I respect that he did try to protect his family and didn't leave them behind. Ass-hole, potential racist, and control-freak -- I won't disagree with these. He was a flawed man for sure. But the man does deserve some degree of respect for trying to do what he thought was best in protecting his family and being there for his daughter -- that's a hell of alot more than what can be said for entirely too many men. Granted, this is opinionated conjecture on events only mentioned (not actually shown) in NOTLD, but that's just my own imagining in picturing it happen... j.p. Wow, nice post.

[MoonSylver]

Wow, nice post. Second. Cooper gets a lot of heat, but he's a very HUMAN character, one I can entirely understand even if I don't 100% agree with. I can respect him, sympathize for him & pity him, with out hating him.

[DubiousComforts]

My work in this thread is not yet done (*pops a pompous pill*) I thought cooper was right because boarding up the house was a retarded idea, why so many entry holes when you can have just one and reinforce that? If you accept the film's conceit that the cellar door held even though it was visibly split in half due to all the banging, then you must also accept that a majority of Ben's barricades held since we are only ever shown a single door and window being breached. This demonstrates that had everyone simply worked together, they most likely would have repelled any combined effort by the ghouls to gain entry, at least until morning. I also remember ben started the hostility too, he kept on about "why didnt you come help" over and over beyond the point of necessity and added ot the overall panic of the situation. If that was the case, then Tom would have had the same problem as Cooper since Ben accused both of them of not being "decent" people. Yet Tom seemed to take no offense and quickly realized that their best chance of survival was joining forces. In this regard, he even forgoes the "safety" of the cellar to remain upstairs with Ben. But before the conversation even veered in this direction, Cooper forced the position that the "cellar is the safest place" as though anyone that wouldn't immediately hole up in the cellar must be a complete idiot. ben was responsible for the deaths of everyone in that house, including coopers little girl. How do you figure? Ben didn't bite her. Of course, Cooper claims that "those things turned over our car," but can you imagine this maniac behind the wheel of a fast moving vehicle during a crisis situation with his family's life at stake? It's far more probable that Cooper panicked and flipped the car on his own, which led to his daughter being bitten in the first place. Twice during the night, Ben also warns Helen to watch over her child and she ignores his advice. This not only leads to her own horrific death but puts the lives of everyone inside the house in jeopardy. Karen undoubtedly would have died and returned had they followed Cooper's plan to hide in the cellar. Just imagine the chaos in the cramped confines of the cellar with the risen Karen attacking the frightened survivors while Harry and Helen try to keep Ben from blasting their "daughter." you mean right after those two kids get blown to smithereens under Ben's leadership? i would have shot him and went to the basement. and no i am not a racist lol Ben didn't put a gun to anyone's head and force them to formulate an escape plan. Tom was entirely convinced to make a break for a rescue station because "the television said that's the right thing to do." Ben also didn't tell Judy to deviate from the plan and follow Tom out of the house unexpectedly, nor did he expect Tom to slosh gasoline all over the truck despite Tom's assurances that "I know how to handle that truck, and I can handle the pump." It should also be noted that unlike the '90 remake, Ben never points the shotgun at Cooper or anyone else living while it's in his possession. There is no reason to believe that Ben wouldn't risk his own life to save any of the people in the house including Cooper, while Harry proves himself to be a complete ass by putting Ben in mortal danger not just once but twice. It is interesting that you CAN read that into the subtext (as you can MANY OTHER issues of the day) & it WORKS. One thing I think is interesting is the question, who is right, Ben or Harry? ...one of the things I love is that THERE IS NO CONCLUSIVE PROOF EITHER WAY. You're left with the uneasy feeling that either one of them could have been right. One of the things I love about the original is the characters & their motivations & actions are 100% believable & understandable. Not cliched or fantastical, they come across as real people & how they would react in that kind of crisis. I agree with all of your well-stated points, and in regards to the last one, it's interesting to note that Chuck Craig once mentioning a chance dinner engagement with people from either the FBI or CIA (I don't recall which exactly). When these folks learned he was in Night of the Living Dead, they mentioned there was a U.S. government program to study the film since it was deemed to realistically depict how ordinary people would react in a crisis situation. And when George Romero was told about this, he simply asked, "why?"

[Trin]

@jdfp - I agree with your post regarding Harry Cooper as a father and a man who would fight for his family. After reading your post a couple of times I think all of the things you've said support why Cooper would choose the cellar over trying to be mobile. He'd done mobile already. He knew how difficult it would be for them. Staying put was a better option for him. If I were in the zombie situation of Night and I were on my own I'd likely go mobile. Seek the best place to make a stand and wait it out. If I were at home with my wife and 3 kids I'd likely stay put. And that's me in the same physical condition in either case. I see Cooper as being in the stay put mode because of his encumbrances and because he knew what being mobile was like. As to whether he was a good or bad person. We don't know what things happened prior to the cellar. We know he got his family there. But at what cost? Did they leave others stranded? Was he responsible for the bite his daughter endured? Anything we think about his actions prior to the cellar is assumption. What we saw of Cooper was belligerent and argumentative and in the end he was willing to sacrifice Ben for no good reason.

[darth los]

204079As to whether he was a good or bad person. We don't know what things happened prior to the cellar. We know he got his family there. But at what cost? Did they leave others stranded? Was he responsible for the bite his daughter endured? Anything we think about his actions prior to the cellar is assumption. What we saw of Cooper was belligerent and argumentative and in the end he was willing to sacrifice Ben for no good reason. That's what i was about to say. How do we know what was in his heart. What do we know for sure? We know they had been through an ordeal in getting to the house and that they are indeed family. Now, what his motivation for being a total dick was throughout the movie who knows. Was it to protect his family? Maybe. But it can't be said for certain that's what it was. There's way more evidence to show that he was being a dick for other reasons than his family. It starts with his wife and how what's important to him is just him being right, not to protect his family. She would know best right. Did we ever see cooper consoling them or giving them words of comfort? NO. But we did see alot whole lot of that other stuff.

[MoonSylver]

@jdfp - I agree with your post regarding Harry Cooper as a father and a man who would fight for his family. After reading your post a couple of times I think all of the things you've said support why Cooper would choose the cellar over trying to be mobile. He'd done mobile already. He knew how difficult it would be for them. Staying put was a better option for him. This is a very good point. What we saw of Cooper was belligerent and argumentative and in the end he was willing to sacrifice Ben for no good reason. Just to play devil's advocate for a second, without condoning or condemning, he DOES hold Ben responsible for the deaths of Tom & Judy. Anybody who legitimately felt that way & felt that this person was going to cause further deaths (especially their own families) could see this as justified. (Now personally, I think he's just using this as a justification for what he wanted to do ANYWAY, but just sayin'...)

[Trin]

Just to play devil's advocate for a second, without condoning or condemning, he DOES hold Ben responsible for the deaths of Tom & Judy. Anybody who legitimately felt that way & felt that this person was going to cause further deaths (especially their own families) could see this as justified. (Now personally, I think he's just using this as a justification for what he wanted to do ANYWAY, but just sayin'...) That's true. And how many times around here do people condone killing a person who is in your survival group if that person represents an ongoing threat? By that point in the movie both Ben and Cooper were angry and/or scared enough to kill the other. And they both had concrete reasons why the other was a threat. Was either of them right or wrong? Here's an interesting question - how would things have been different if Ben had let Cooper live and they both retreated to the cellar? Assuming they both lived through the family reunion downstairs that would've meant a pair of them alive in the morning when the posse arrived.

[darth los]

Here's an interesting question - how would things have been different if Ben had let Cooper live and they both retreated to the cellar? Assuming they both lived through the family reunion downstairs that would've meant a pair of them alive in the morning when the posse arrived. Or?... Being that cooper was first to the house, What if he had the only gun instead of Ben? Let's not forget that Ben got away with alot probably because he had that big ass rifle while he was talking the smack he was.

[rightwing401]

1969 version- most likely a subtle racist. 1990 version- ego inflated asshole. But then again, Ben wasn't exactly Mr. Nice guy either, nor was he always thinking straight or right. ahem "I wasn't taking it downstairs. You can't get any reception from the basement you dickhead!" Harry-90' version.

[darth los]

1969 version- most likely a subtle racist. 1990 version- ego inflated asshole. But then again, Ben wasn't exactly Mr. Nice guy either, nor was he always thinking straight or right. ahem "I wasn't taking it downstairs. You can't get any reception from the basement you dickhead!" Harry-90' version. I agree. As pointed out earlier Ben was on some "my way or the highway" shit himself. There were several opportunities for him to compromise as well. But He stubbornly stayed the course.

[sandrock74]

"I wasn't taking it downstairs. You can't get any reception from the basement you dickhead!" Harry-90' version. You know, my friends and I have debated that scene several times over the years. No one seems to believe him that he wasn't going to sneak it into the basement, but we all agree that he was correct in saying there is no reception down there. I mean, he sure looked like he was headed for the basement! I guess we'll never know.