TWD 4x09 "After" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN**

[rongravy]

As for 'not ending the episode with Michonne, Rick, and Carl meeting' - it's better to go out on more of a punch note. Seeing that re-team is inevitable anyway, so why do we need to see it happen? The episode would end on a trailing-off moment, rather than a nice sharp moment ("it's for you"), which also somewhat ties into the broader themes of the episode. Maybe, just maybe... Next week's episode will end with the OTHER rest of the group about to come in the back door as Michonne is about to come in the front. Then the next weekend after that, they can finally just all... meet back up and chill out in the living room for a spell.

[Legion2213]

Further observation - Rick really needs to loot a new fucking shirt!

[Neil]

Not a bad mid-season starter. Have to ask why Carl didn't seem very worried his dad wouldn't wake up, and seemed more than happy to sleep next to someone who could therefore "wake up" any second? Do these people not learn?

[Legion2213]

Not a bad mid-season starter. Have to ask why Carl didn't seem very worried his dad wouldn't wake up, and seemed more than happy to sleep next to someone who could therefore "wake up" any second? Do these people not learn? Aye, he's just sorted himself a really cool bedroom as well!

[zombieparanoia]

I thought it was pretty good, I liked carl taking the lead and becoming his own person/adult. I just hoped he would have told his dad off while he was awake. I thought the michonne backstory was nice but also hope they expand on it a bit more, all the characters really could use a solo backstory episode at this point. I thought it was good they left the rest of the group until the next episode, didn't break up the story into too many pieces that way. I am still really surprised that more characters have not started becoming much more proficient with hand weapons by this time. I'm not saying they should all be wielding low maintenance katanas and being all navy seals or anything but it would be nice to see them start to realize the efficiency of a shovel or hatchet or machete in dispatching small numbers of walkers.

[Neil]

How many skulls did that katana slice through like butter? That's one sharp sword! Have we discussed if a sword can really slice through skulls like that?

[ProfessorChaos]

i was rolling my eyes and groaning during that bit. they had to throw a shit-ton of gore in there to please the masses, i guess. michonne's katana has always seemed kinda goofy to me, even from her first appearance in the comics.

[MinionZombie]

Further observation - Rick really needs to loot a new fucking shirt! I know right, that thing looks like it could stand up and walk itself to the nearest river for a bloody good wash ... could you imagine the stench?! Aye, he's just sorted himself a really cool bedroom as well! Aye, true enough. Although it's probably so that he could be there if Rick needed him, as well as to provide a watchful eye over Rick as he slept off his beat-down. I don't think Carl really thought Rick was going to die necessarily, but at the same time he knew Rick was in a seriously bad way. I think he blasted Rick while he was still passed out due to frustration, as well as it being a testing of the boundaries. He's really letting Rick have it, but the child side of him isn't quite brave enough to say all that to his face. Although, he might have done regardless of whether he was awake or not - he'd got to a point where he needed to just let it all out right there and then, he just needed to blurt it out as part of the process of moving onto the next step in survival. Also, I'm totally fine with Michonne's sword, realistic blade or not.

[shootemindehead]

Yeh. It's stupid comic wank in an otherwise straight universe. But, I just don't see it any more. What I DO see, is other people NOT using blade weapons as their first line of attack. I'd have two machetes strapped to each leg, as well as a glock on my bum... ...and I'd be dressed head to toe in leather. NO...not THAT leather.

[Neil]

I know right, that thing looks like it could stand up and walk itself to the nearest river for a bloody good wash ... could you imagine the stench?! Aye, true enough. Although it's probably so that he could be there if Rick needed him, as well as to provide a watchful eye over Rick as he slept off his beat-down. I don't think Carl really thought Rick was going to die necessarily, but at the same time he knew Rick was in a seriously bad way. I think he blasted Rick while he was still passed out due to frustration, as well as it being a testing of the boundaries. He's really letting Rick have it, but the child side of him isn't quite brave enough to say all that to his face. Although, he might have done regardless of whether he was awake or not - he'd got to a point where he needed to just let it all out right there and then, he just needed to blurt it out as part of the process of moving onto the next step in survival. Also, I'm totally fine with Michonne's sword, realistic blade or not. If you're shouting and shaking someone who is wounded, and they will not rouse, then I know for a fact, I would not fall asleep next to them!

[zomtom]

Wheezie, (I mean Rick) sounded like a walker throughout the episode. I had a feeling the writers were going to try and put one over on us and trick us into thinking Rick died and turned. Of course, there's no way in hell they're going to kill Rick off any time soon. Still, if I had been Carl there would be no way in hell I would be sleeping right next to him!!

[Neil]

Still, if I had been Carl there would be no way in hell I would be sleeping right next to him!! Absolutely! He would have at least tied his leg or something to the couch or something...

[Wyldwraith]

About the "Pet Zombie technique", One thing we DO know from TS-(whatever # it was), the episode with Dr. Jenner showing reanimation moment by moment on the big screen and narrating what the group was seeing...is that the "R-Complex" reactivates first. HOWEVER, Jenner did NOT say the R-Complex reactivates undamaged/unaffected. Just first. The reason I make the distinction is scientists believe that bit of reptile jelly may have as much to do with the urge to screw as it does the urge to eat. Since we don't see sexualized Walkers, that bit must remain offline. But ANYWAYS, my point in even mentioning the R-Complex. If the Walkers are indeed "Eat Motivated" on a primal neurological level then there's a case to be made for Walkers losing their active impetus if they completely lose the implements required for biting/ripping etc etc. No, I don't think it would be as fast as "Chop, chop, Slice the Jaw. Chop, chop, slice the jaw. Poof, instant undead marionettes." I would be MUCH happier with the phenomena if they depicted something like the Walkers mutilated in such fashion as sort of "spazzing out" for a minute or so as instinct fails to come to grips with their altered physical reality. Second and last point is a two-parter. One, they let Michonne get away with it cuz Darabont obviously thought it was a cool idea at some point. Two, consider the logistics of a Jawless, Double-Amputee Walker still trying to attack someone. It would quite literally have people laughing hysterically in many cases, and that just wrecks the hell out of the show's atmosphere. Last thing: If they wanted to do a better job of selling the Mutilated Pet Zombie mechanism, they'd show us some Walkers that whether by misadventure or simple advanced decomposition have been rendered structurally unable to hunt being equally apathetic about the presence of humans. I DID enjoy zombies like the moss-covered half-zombie reminiscent of Bicycle Zombie from episode one. That was an excellent and very believable example of what would happen to a corpse in Central/South Georgia that was rendered immobile for a prolonged length of time. Little touches like that from last season help sell the entire Walker phenomena, at least IMHO.

[MinionZombie]

Interesting points there Wyld. I think in the end they just didn't have the time to show the walkers lose their motivation to eat. The episode isn't about that, there's more important things for the episode to be looking at, so they have to take a cheeky short cut to get to the inevitable end-point of that decision - Michonne needs walker pets to survive in the woods once more, she gets them, the end. So, as cheeky a short cut as it is, it will have just come down to there not being enough time to show that. There's also interesting cases like the Tree Walker from season 4A. It still wants to get Carl and Hershel, but it's totally stuck under that fallen branch. We've also seen how some walkers, when there's no food for them to get at and nothing to attract their attention, they'll just stand/sit there - e.g. in 3x01 and 3x12 (the grocery store, and restaurant respectively) - so without a reason to go looking some place, they won't seek out food deliberately. Another interesting one was in 3x05 with the walker that ate all of Lori (although whether it literally was all of her, or most of her - because wtf about the skeleton, you know?) ... but anyway ... it was jam-packed full-o-Lori, so it was incredibly listless when Rick stopped by. It could barely lift an arm to get at him, and certainly couldn't stand, so that's another intersting walker of note.

[Morto Vivente]

Second and last point is a two-parter. One, they let Michonne get away with it cuz Darabont obviously thought it was a cool idea at some point. Two, consider the logistics of a Jawless, Double-Amputee Walker still trying to attack someone. It would quite literally have people laughing hysterically in many cases, and that just wrecks the hell out of the show's atmosphere. I think some of the "Zombie Rules" from the 1st season have been reconsidered as the show moved on after Darabont's departure. Originally the zeds could breathe, going back to 1x02 one sniffs Rick and Glen as they walk past it, while covered in zombie gore. In season 2 it seems the ability to smell has been dropped based on comments by Nicotero.