Tyrees' group isn't the same group people think. That's not his daughter with them. Unless it's his step daughter. Because she calls him by name in the beginning when she pops out from behind the tree. And the lady who gets bit is the younger guys mother. Might be Allen and Donna, but I don't think the roles are the same as the comic.
They can't kill him now. It'll be shallow and anti-climatic. If they wanted to kill Daryl off, they would've done it in this episode in a way that packs emotional punch. If they kill him now in the context as prisoner it'll just be a foot-note as opposed to something memorable. (Like every other lead character death in the show has been.)
* Tyreese! At long last the burly hammer-swinging badass has arrived, and with a contingency of fresh meat following him. The name Donna (given to the woman who gets bitten on the arm) is a reference to the comics. So we can reasonably assume that her man is Allen (another character from the comics) - however both Donna and Allen were part of Rick's group from the very beginning. Good to see some more familiar names turning up.
* I was beginning to get a bit distracted by the fact that the prison wasn't looking much like what we saw in that final shot of season two, but here we saw another portion of it.
* The scene between The Governor (Philip) and his undead daughter Penny was an interesting one. We've seen a much deeper and multi-faceted version of one of the comic's most iconic villains, and even though we hate this guy, we still feel a pang of sympathy for him and all the losses he has endured since the outbreak began. Emotional, but also rather disturbing.
* Glenn's walker bone shiv idea was a cracking (ba-boom-boom, tish) little moment. Now that's survivalism, Walking Dead style.
* Axel's a bit creepy - although he was known for peeping on the women in the showers in the comics - so his talk with Beth was, yeah, a bit shady (Carl didn't like it much either). Although his exchange with Carol - him assuming she was a lesbian because of her short hair - brought levity and toned-down the creep-factor from Axel.
* ACTION! Assault rifles, silenced pistols, smoke grenades, flash bangs - plenty of good fun to be had.
* I dug Daryl's rollercoaster during this episode. He's a gun-toting badass, but the little brother in him comes to the fore when he finds out Merle is not only alive, but here in Woodbury. Furthermore, when he's captured and in front of that baying mob, you can see his inner child come forth - he's actually scared for the first time in a long, long time ... but then so would you if you were surrounded by an audience who was after your blood, having been labelled a "terrorist".
* So long Oscar - he didn't last long. Kind of a bummer as I was growing to like his character. Now to sit back and wait for the "heard you need a NEW new black guy" memes to come forth, ha!
* Shane! A nice little touch having Jon Bernthal return briefly - Rick's not fully out-of-the-nutter-woods yet, then.
* Michonne's fight with The Governor was brutal and tense, and rather kick arse. It felt pretty real too, with lots of scrabbling around desperately trying to get the upper hand. When she grabbed the shard of glass, slicing her hand open in the process, elicited a good old wince from me.
* Speaking of Michonne, some folks out there have been a bit critical of her thus far, but I think this was definitely her strongest outing in the show thus far. We got a broad range of emotions from her here, she kicked plenty of arse, and she's enough of a troublemaker to keep things interesting when she's around others - she was always a bit of a rogue in the comics anyway.
* Andrea's seen behind the mask with Philip now, and with the end of the episode proving he's gone to the dark side, she has little in the way of options. As the previews for February suggest, she's going to be getting the hell out of Woodbury soon.
* Carl is referred to as a "man" by Tyreese, which was a nice little touch. Carl's come a long way since his weakest and most child-like moments in season two.
* An element that's ever-present in the comics is rash decisions, or decisions based on revenge, coming back to haunt you. As the cast talked about, Penny - albeit in undead form - was keeping a lid on Philip's undercurrent of insanity and mayhem. With her gone, he has no connection to his former self and his former life - the beast has been unleashed. Let the blood flow...
BEST GORE MOMENT:
The Governor taking a shard of fish tank glass in the eye. It packed a genuine jolt during his gripping scuffle with Michonne.
BEST TWIST ON THE COMICS:
Generally giving The Governor more depth and more sides to his character - he's not an outright villain, but he's not exactly cuddly either. It's also wise to spread some of the names from the comics out a bit - the comics did have a tendancy early on to introduce a shedload of characters and then not do an awful lot with a number of them (making them background filler more than anything, as well as eventual cannon-fodder, and in some cases bigger players further down the line). Keeping us waiting for Tyreese was a good plan - we sustain heavy losses early-on in the season, and just when we're looking a bit sparse-on-the-ground, we get a new batch of key players.
THE CLIFFHANGER:
The Governor's gone over to the dark side, he's captured Daryl, and he's cut Merle loose in front of a baying mob ... plus Andrea's finally beginning to see the dark side. It's a right old tease for the viewers, although if you watch the mini trailer for the return of the show in February, you can find a few answers. It's a good ending for the mid-season finale though, and it's interesting that this is the very first time that Daryl and Merle are actually on-screen together in the same scene. It's a testament to the strength of these characters that we've always believed them to be brothers, and that their fractious bond remains strong, in spite of the fact that it's taken twenty-seven episodes to get them in the frame together.
...
Now, having looked at the 'coming in February' preview, and the very short sneak peak of 3x09's beginning, I've put down some thoughts of what to expect next - but I'll put that stuff in spoiler tags in case anyone doesn't want to know anything - although AMC would never give away any actual spoilers.
Judging from the snippets we got to see in the teaser for February's return of The Walking Dead, we can expect Rick & Co to stage a daring rescue of Daryl, and indeed Merle as well (Glenn is unhappy that Rick has brought someone with him – clearly it'll be Merle). The mid-season finale had the two brothers held captive by The Governor and his men before a baying mob, but with clearly they're saved just in time – we even see a shot of Daryl in the woods, and glimpse him opening a fence at the prison.
The Governor's going dark – when Michonne took out his undead daughter, he lost the final thing that was tying him to his previous life and his humanity. Pandora's box is now very much open. We see a shot of the now monocular villain firing from his truck – but at what? These Walking Dead teasers are always craftily edited.
The actors have also spoken of Glenn taking a darker turn in the next eight episodes. We've seen him kick major arse when he was held at Woodbury (his fight with a walker in 3x07) and we've seen him defend Maggie and himself by any means necessary (using bones from the slain walker's body as shivs in 3x08). By the sounds of it we'll see a vengeful streak in him.
Andrea, having discovered some of the darkness behind The Governor, and that the “terrorists” are in fact her old friends (in a sneak peak from AMC, Andrea tries to stop The Governor from taking drastic action against The Brothers Dixon) is going to move away from Woodbury. He is unsure of her loyalty, and she returns to the prison (even taking a leaf out of Michonne's book and using a captive walker as a blocker) to be re-united with Rick and the gang.
Finally it looks like the stakes are going to be raised once again – the residents of Woodbury seem to be up-in-arms – are they after revenge? Are they scared and looking to flee their town? Meanwhile a van smashes through the fences at the prison – but what's particularly interesting is that this seems to take place at the same time as Andrea's arrival at the prison (you can see that the field inside the fences not only has walkers in it, but that the van is sat there too). What does this mean? Was she followed? Is this a suicidal attack by Woodbury residents, or enemies unknown? Or is it an inconvenient coincidence?
...
As for the wackos out there somewhere in the world watching this show, they might seem like they're large in number, but as is always the case, the loudest shouters are the fewest in number. The majority of people are normal (if you yourself can be normal and consider yourself to be a fairly average member of society, why can't the vast majority of people therefore be of a similar disposition?), but you always get clusters of weirdos ranting and spitting fury or inane banter ... these will be the very same people who pissed and moaned about The Walking Dead being "the slow show" - a criticism that Glen Mazzara actively took-to-task on The Talking Dead earlier this year/late last year. There are tons of other shows out there where far less happens in an episode, or it goes at a far slower pace. Yes, season two was a bit slow in places, but it also wasn't "the slow show" that some folks way out there in the wilderness were bitching about ... besides, it's natural that before the walkers took over the countryside, it would be safer. Now though everywhere is screwed, and with increased risk-versus-reward situations and much higher stakes, the drama and action are going to increase big time. It's a natural escalation that would have happened anyway.
Also, I'm glad they didn't go all out on Maggie - it would have been very unwise, and really it's just unnecessary. The Governor would be totally written off by the audience, and you've got to take into account the softer palets of a wider audience in these very extreme situations; the threat was enough on its own. Plus you'd totally ruin your pacing for the character's arc - the next eight episodes are going to be designed to show The Governor get progressively more insane, to reach a fever pitch by the season finale - that's what I'd reasonaly expect to happen.
Besides, when you think about what the do show on The Walking Dead as a matter of routine, it's stunning that the show is as successful as it is. Hell, in the second ever episode they cover Glenn and Rick in zombie guts - and they show it graphically - heck, in the first scene of the first episode there's a little girl zombie who gets shot in the face. What other show would dare to illustrate such a thing?! Just think about some of the sights we've seen with this show - this show is graphic.
In terms of 'woman hate', again, a minority situation...
I've seen a few comments here aimed at some of the women on the show that have been entirely unwarranted, or usually at best simply unnecessary. Andrea gets a raw deal from some folks here, yes she's flawed, but she also doesn't know anywhere near as much info as we the viewer does - that's extremely important to remember. Clearly now the veil has been (mostly) lifted (she still doesn't know The Governor and his men captured and tortured Glenn & Maggie, for instance), and from the preview at the end of the episode she's going to be reconnecting with Rick & Co.
Carol gets harsh words from time-to-time as well, and again, I don't understand why. Same thing with Lori - there's a fair bit of Lori hate out there, and I never understood why. Again, yes, she's flawed, but she was also lied to (Shane lied to her about Rick being dead), and she was damn-near raped, and she's had a hell of a lot to deal with ... some of her actions/reactions have been somewhat misinterpreted too, and I found it fascinating to see the stunned reaction to her demise.
So, long-winded point being, don't pay attention to a handful of screaming loons - it's par for the course, and there's no way that Mazzara & Co would listen to (let alone allow themselves to be influenced by) such lunacy. They've got a shed load of work to be getting on with, so I doubt they've got much time to be surfing the craziest corners of the internet - really, their contact with the fans will be at conventions and via social media, and the majority of their contact will no doubt be reasonable people asking reasonable questions, even if some of them aren't as well-versed in, or obsessed by, TWD lore as we are.
Annnnnnd breathe...
- - - Updated - - -
Originally Posted by babomb
Tyrees' group isn't the same group people think. That's not his daughter with them. Unless it's his step daughter. Because she calls him by name in the beginning when she pops out from behind the tree. And the lady who gets bit is the younger guys mother. Might be Allen and Donna, but I don't think the roles are the same as the comic.
The chick who died was called Donna (who was a heftier lady in the comics), so I'd wager that the bearded guy wearing flannel/a checked shirt, was Allen (also from the comics, where he was seen with a beard and a checked shirt, married to Donna, albeit himself with more girth around the gut). More children would be an additional headache from a production standpoint (indeed in the comics there's a whole bunch of kids running around at the beginning).
Is it confirmed that "Ben" is the son of Donna? I didn't notice myself whether that was the case or not. Perhaps he's a younger brother? The actress playing Donna seemed a bit young to have a son that looked that old ... maybe not (e.g. teenage pregnancy), but the actress seemed fairly young.
Donna and Allen were with the group in the camp outside Atlanta IIRC, and Tyreese & Co joined them in Issue #7/beginning of volume #2 IIRC - so they're shifting things around a little bit, but it's makes sense to as well. It's also wise to space some of these characters out as Kirkman had a lot of people in a the group early on, but many had very little to do, and again there are artistic and practical concerns when converting that into a tv show. It's easy to write and draw a load of people, but in a production they're all paid actors and you've only got so much screen time - so it makes sense to save some for later, particular when we're in-need of bolstering our group's numbers after some heavy losses.
Originally Posted by JonOfTheShred
They can't kill him now. It'll be shallow and anti-climatic. If they wanted to kill Daryl off, they would've done it in this episode in a way that packs emotional punch. If they kill him now in the context as prisoner it'll just be a foot-note as opposed to something memorable. (Like every other lead character death in the show has been.)
They won't kill off Daryl until the time is right at the stakes are high enough - indeed I'd wager what will happen is that Daryl will have to sacrifice Merle, or perhaps Merle will sacrifice himself in a redemptive act. Indeed, it'd be very unwise of the show makers to kill of Daryl for a long while yet - he's too loved, and if he was to die in some future season of the show, it'd have to be such a huge deal that was carried out in a fitting way that paid tribute to the character. Plus there's so much more to do with Daryl in the future, it'd be foolish to cut themselves off at the knees.
Calm down folks, kidgloves is having some sick & twisted fun ... the cheeky git.
Besides - Daryl's in the preview at the end of the episode, where he's shown to be outside of Woodbury.
I really like the social commentary on so called "civil society" with Woodbury, with the GOV being the authority that lies, cheats, steals, and plays on everyones fears to pursue his own personal agenda. And the prison group being the underdog, the group that's barely keeping it together, but nonetheless is drawn into a conflict with an enemy that's seemingly better situated and supplied, and appears to have the upperhand.
It's a well done example of the old saying "One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter". The citizens in that little community believe 100% that they were attacked by terrorists that were extremely violent and wanted what they had.
This is the equivalent to Romeros critique on consumer culture in the 70's.
Also, I'm glad they didn't go all out on Maggie - it would have been very unwise, and really it's just unnecessary. The Governor would be totally written off by the audience, and you've got to take into account the softer palets of a wider audience in these very extreme situations; the threat was enough on its own. Plus you'd totally ruin your pacing for the character's arc - the next eight episodes are going to be designed to show The Governor get progressively more insane, to reach a fever pitch by the season finale - that's what I'd reasonaly expect to happen.
Besides, when you think about what the do show on The Walking Dead as a matter of routine, it's stunning that the show is as successful as it is. Hell, in the second ever episode they cover Glenn and Rick in zombie guts - and they show it graphically - heck, in the first scene of the first episode there's a little girl zombie who gets shot in the face. What other show would dare to illustrate such a thing?! Just think about some of the sights we've seen with this show - this show is graphic.
This is problematic with a certain amount of viewers. I saw it clearly on the page I stumbled onto. Those ladies had a problem with the graphic nature and found it unnecessary in many instances. One thing they really seemed to not care for was when Rick peeled the gas mask off the riot cop walker. These are the moments that most fans love.
So it's really strange to me to know that there are viewers out there who love this show to the point where they stage online prayer circles to pray for characters, yet they disapprove of the shows very nature and premise.
Last edited by babomb; 03-Dec-2012 at 08:31 PM.
Reason: .
Yeah. Nothing against Daryl. I call for his death every season. Its tradition. He will have to take a backseat though now a REAL badass in Tyreese is on the scene. Loved what I saw of him though. Cool, calm and collected. And of course, there's the hammer.
The body is the instrument on which imagination plays.
It has been confirmed by Chad Coleman that Sasha is his younger Sister, and the couple were Donna and Allen and their son Ben.
"That's the deal, right? The people who are living have it harder, right? … the whole world is haunted now and there's no getting out of that, not until we're dead."
Surprised no one responded to this point,
Michonne took out a few of the Governor's lackeys when she escaped Merle, Rick & Co. killed another 5-7 +1 more by Maggie with a Walker-shiv. At a MINIMUM that's 9 of the Gov's automatic-weapon carrying goons. Or put it another way, if the population of Woodbury is 75 people then -10 is a SIGNIFICANT % of the overall population.
Now I don't really care about the #s per-se, but rather the way all season the Governor's armed thugs have been given a shadier, in-the-know identity of their own, completely separate from the Woodbury civilians. To be able to lose 10, or rather 11 counting Merle now being under arrest, and still have Woodbury APPEAR atmosphere-wise the same armed cordon surrounding a squishy civilian center just bugs the ever-loving shit out of me.
Put still another way. Let's say the Governor had a total of 25 men on his shady, murdering-other-survivor-groups death squad roster. 25 is about how many guys he'd need in that capacity to lose 10-11 and have things still look about normal with the same # of guys back on the wall, acting as internal security etc etc. That would mean that 1 in 3 people in Woodbury are in on all the Governor's dastardly, ordering them to bring heads back for him, deeds. Thematically speaking, the writers/director have made Woodbury look and feel as if the large majority of the inhabitants are completely clueless of the Governor's darker activities.
So how does that align with the major # of casualties the Governor's thugs suffered as a result of the rescue-raid by Rick & Co.? On one level it makes sense that's why the Governor is now using propaganda to twist the civilians of Woodbury into willing conscripts for his counterattack, but on another there's no hint that losing 11 of his cronies (and that's a MINIMUM count. The actual # could be 14 or 15) has done anything to weaken the Governor's police-state. There's STILL plenty of guys with automatic weapons crowded near Merle and Daryl, and quite a few more on the outskirts of the crowd. This is what I find difficult to reconcile, because of the MAJOR IMPACT on the story depending on just how many thugs the Governor lost.
I mean, I'd HATE to see them essentially replaced as faceless redshirts with a lame excuse like "Oh, the Governor just recruited more of them from amongst the menfolk of Woodbury." Out of 75-80 people he was DAMNED LUCKY to be able to assemble 15-25 depraved killers that are ALSO stable enough to control long-term. Your average meth-shooting former biker just isn't gonna cover it in most cases...and it's not like the Governor can wave a magic wand and make another few dozen survivors appear.
See what I'm getting at here? It isn't a nitpick about camera angles. It's a problem that will have a pivotal part to play when Round 2 happens at the Prison.
I for one would like to see them actively try to prevent themselves from becoming covered in walker blood. You know it's still gonna happen despite their best efforts. But having them keep covered in long sleeves, maybe some handkerchiefs over the mouth, some gloves, would go a long way as far as keeping it realistic. I mean, that's what I'd be doing in that situation. And that's what they did in the start of season 1, when Rick got out of the tank and T-Dog and the spanish dude were covered in Tyvek suits and helmets and gloves to take out a few measely walkers. That's just realistic. And i wish that would've been continued.
It's not a major deal to me, I still love the show. But look at how as a society we view infectious outbreak already. Maintaining a certain level of protection from it is just sound logic, even after the apocalypse. I just don't want to get to a point in this show where we abandon all logic and disbelief in favor of WOW moments and death scenes. Forgetting what's actually happening and the reality of the situation the characters are in.
You are right about clothing and blood. Seeing skin on Maggie and her sexy tank tops makes for great eye candy. But long sleeves are beyond smart. Who would want to die from a cheap preventable bite. Not sure why they would let their guard down. Full gear in season one and no protection now.
Complacency maybe or have they resigned to the fact that since they are all infected they don't worry so much. I myself wouldn't be too keen with walker blood on me. The realism has faded a bit for sure.
The nice thing about this series is it's not predictable, at least not for me. I really though Andrea my just shoot Michonne!
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there--on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam. [click for more] -Carl Sagan
Surprised no one responded to this point,
Michonne took out a few of the Governor's lackeys when she escaped Merle, Rick & Co. killed another 5-7 +1 more by Maggie with a Walker-shiv. At a MINIMUM that's 9 of the Gov's automatic-weapon carrying goons. Or put it another way, if the population of Woodbury is 75 people then -10 is a SIGNIFICANT % of the overall population.
Now I don't really care about the #s per-se, but rather the way all season the Governor's armed thugs have been given a shadier, in-the-know identity of their own, completely separate from the Woodbury civilians. To be able to lose 10, or rather 11 counting Merle now being under arrest, and still have Woodbury APPEAR atmosphere-wise the same armed cordon surrounding a squishy civilian center just bugs the ever-loving shit out of me.
Put still another way. Let's say the Governor had a total of 25 men on his shady, murdering-other-survivor-groups death squad roster. 25 is about how many guys he'd need in that capacity to lose 10-11 and have things still look about normal with the same # of guys back on the wall, acting as internal security etc etc. That would mean that 1 in 3 people in Woodbury are in on all the Governor's dastardly, ordering them to bring heads back for him, deeds. Thematically speaking, the writers/director have made Woodbury look and feel as if the large majority of the inhabitants are completely clueless of the Governor's darker activities.
So how does that align with the major # of casualties the Governor's thugs suffered as a result of the rescue-raid by Rick & Co.? On one level it makes sense that's why the Governor is now using propaganda to twist the civilians of Woodbury into willing conscripts for his counterattack, but on another there's no hint that losing 11 of his cronies (and that's a MINIMUM count. The actual # could be 14 or 15) has done anything to weaken the Governor's police-state. There's STILL plenty of guys with automatic weapons crowded near Merle and Daryl, and quite a few more on the outskirts of the crowd. This is what I find difficult to reconcile, because of the MAJOR IMPACT on the story depending on just how many thugs the Governor lost.
I mean, I'd HATE to see them essentially replaced as faceless redshirts with a lame excuse like "Oh, the Governor just recruited more of them from amongst the menfolk of Woodbury." Out of 75-80 people he was DAMNED LUCKY to be able to assemble 15-25 depraved killers that are ALSO stable enough to control long-term. Your average meth-shooting former biker just isn't gonna cover it in most cases...and it's not like the Governor can wave a magic wand and make another few dozen survivors appear.
See what I'm getting at here? It isn't a nitpick about camera angles. It's a problem that will have a pivotal part to play when Round 2 happens at the Prison.
You're spot on as usual Wyld. That's all I'm going to say.
The body is the instrument on which imagination plays.
In the comic, there was said to only be about 45 people in Woodbury, so about 30 people less than on the show.
The Governor took a good couple dozen with him to attack the prison and from what we were shown, most of them were just normal folks given a gun and told the prison folk were evil. They were easily scared off by Andrea shooting at them in the opening round of the conflict.
I see this exact type of scene being played out on the show. Wyld is right about the body count in Woodbury; the Gov is going to be forced to essentially arm a civilian militia. Woodbury will have the numbers on their side, but certainly lack in experience and practical knowledge of sound tactics.
One big difference from the comic that I think is interesting is how Rick and the governor haven't met face-to-face yet. Its like Kirk and Khan in Star Trek II; enemies who never shared the screen. It'll be fun to see how this plays out.
I feel sorry for non-comic fans that are reading this thread. You guys are dropping comic spoilers like there's no tomorrow....
Anyway, good episode. They've kept a very nice pace with this season. Can't wait to see the rest.
Yeah. The spoiler policy seems to have been thrown out the window.
I thought it was just me being over reactive in other threads but people just don't stop and think for a second that someone else might not know what they know.
The body is the instrument on which imagination plays.
So what's with Andrea? I'm really, TRULY trying to understand what the writers intend for us to believe regarding the character's decision-making...but it just makes no sense to me. I go over it in my head, and find myself retreading the same basic ground.
In the known Walking Dead universe, Woodbury is the best thing going. Her decisions make a lot of sense. She wants to survive.
Option A) On the run, trying to survive, eating dog food.
Option B) Living in a safe community, drinking beer, f'ing the Gov.
Well said.
Woodbury cannot hold and if the show has even a buck private Infantryman as an adviser this should be one awesome battle.
Operationally the Governor is completely screwed and he knows it to be painfully true. There are no indications that this town is the militarized version from the comics. The town has lost the core of its offensive striking capability and most importantly he is the only leader left that can command a force in the field. It is clear from the rapid rise of Andrea's authority during the crisis he is already feeling the manpower pinch even with Merle leading the quick reaction force in the defense of Woodbury. He has declared Merle a traitor depriving himself of his best leader, fighter and tactician. The town as it stands now only has two courses of action; strongpoint defense or massed attack. They no longer have the ability to simultaneously Recon AND Scavenge for supplies which leaves them blind while they starve behind the walls.
Due to lack of experience and personnel losses they can not perform Raids/Ambush operations like they did against the National Guard. We already know the average wall guards cannot shoot since they fired off more ammo than a Storm Trooper garrison and the only hit came from Andrea. Recruiting from the pampered civilians is his only choice since outside the potential of outside help is nil since most potential allies are dead, floating in a fish tank or leaving Woodbury a wide berth. Without 10-15 outside replacement fighters the town is wide open to another attack and already has major weaknesses since "Walkers slip in the sides from time to time". Due to proximity to the Red Zone Woodbury has to defend its population in place and as well as a large assault force outside the walls. That large a force mustering in the open will attract massed walker herds. This necessity forces the Governor to either bring the children or constrict Woodbury's defensible perimeter into a civilian Alamo.
When they get to the prison his only option will be a North Korean style massed human wave assault with a poorly trained force. The Governor is hoping to take the prison, kill all of the defenders then assume defensive positions within the much more easily defended walls with his surviving assault force. The battle of course will be lost from the first shot. Being militarily blind due to a lack of proper recon he has no clue the Prison just doubled the size of its fighting force with high quality recruits, his poorly trained militia will take heavy losses and crack. Even if they are successful the masses of walkers attracted to the sounds of battle will trap them in the prison which may not hold because of the damage they inflict getting inside in the first place.
Originally Posted by Wyldwraith
Surprised no one responded to this point,
Michonne took out a few of the Governor's lackeys when she escaped Merle, Rick & Co. killed another 5-7 +1 more by Maggie with a Walker-shiv. At a MINIMUM that's 9 of the Gov's automatic-weapon carrying goons. Or put it another way, if the population of Woodbury is 75 people then -10 is a SIGNIFICANT % of the overall population.
Now I don't really care about the #s per-se, but rather the way all season the Governor's armed thugs have been given a shadier, in-the-know identity of their own, completely separate from the Woodbury civilians. To be able to lose 10, or rather 11 counting Merle now being under arrest, and still have Woodbury APPEAR atmosphere-wise the same armed cordon surrounding a squishy civilian center just bugs the ever-loving shit out of me.
Put still another way. Let's say the Governor had a total of 25 men on his shady, murdering-other-survivor-groups death squad roster. 25 is about how many guys he'd need in that capacity to lose 10-11 and have things still look about normal with the same # of guys back on the wall, acting as internal security etc etc. That would mean that 1 in 3 people in Woodbury are in on all the Governor's dastardly, ordering them to bring heads back for him, deeds. Thematically speaking, the writers/director have made Woodbury look and feel as if the large majority of the inhabitants are completely clueless of the Governor's darker activities.
So how does that align with the major # of casualties the Governor's thugs suffered as a result of the rescue-raid by Rick & Co.? On one level it makes sense that's why the Governor is now using propaganda to twist the civilians of Woodbury into willing conscripts for his counterattack, but on another there's no hint that losing 11 of his cronies (and that's a MINIMUM count. The actual # could be 14 or 15) has done anything to weaken the Governor's police-state. There's STILL plenty of guys with automatic weapons crowded near Merle and Daryl, and quite a few more on the outskirts of the crowd. This is what I find difficult to reconcile, because of the MAJOR IMPACT on the story depending on just how many thugs the Governor lost.
I mean, I'd HATE to see them essentially replaced as faceless redshirts with a lame excuse like "Oh, the Governor just recruited more of them from amongst the menfolk of Woodbury." Out of 75-80 people he was DAMNED LUCKY to be able to assemble 15-25 depraved killers that are ALSO stable enough to control long-term. Your average meth-shooting former biker just isn't gonna cover it in most cases...and it's not like the Governor can wave a magic wand and make another few dozen survivors appear.
See what I'm getting at here? It isn't a nitpick about camera angles. It's a problem that will have a pivotal part to play when Round 2 happens at the Prison.
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there--on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam. [click for more]
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Originally Posted by kidgloves
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