TWD 3x13 "Arrow on the Doorpost" episode discussion...**SPOILERS WITHIN**

[AcesandEights]

Regarding Andrea - I disagree - she's got a very defined season arc I mean out longer than the season, MZ. Maybe I'm wrong or misremembering, but she has made a lot of questionable or outright bad decisions based on what she feels she needs to be doing, wanting to take an active role or be perceived in a certain way. She seems to put ego ahead of common sense, a lot. I've been behind her the whole way, even if my patience has at times been tested, and I believe that my faith in her evolving character will be proven in the next three episodes. Mark my words, people - vindication is coming! Well, it make sense and is pretty predictable from a plot-on-tv standpoint, so you're likely right. Will the writers pull it off believably? I have to wonder. love Hershel, love Milton ... I really want Milton to join Team Prison. It's interesting to have someone alive in the apocalypse who has never really had to fight, he's been able to be sheltered by others along the way, and it's not even like he's a gentle soul who then was able to take up arms quite readily (e.g. Carol) when the time called. Milton has been really sheltered throughout all this, so it's interesting to see this very soft and cultured sort of person - who believes in a future for mankind (and indeed a victory for mankind) - he believes in culture and history and documenting this incredible event. He sees a far larger picture than day-to-day survival, and while that's not practical if you're fending for your life, when you're afforded with shelter and protection then you can have that, and it's an interesting counterpoint to a generally far harsher and brutal world surrounding him. You absolutely, positively hit the nail on the head, for me, here!

[Morto Vivente]

I think the episode exposed just how much Rick has changed since he killed Shane and lost Lori. Towards the end of season 2 he was willing to spare Randall. a legitimate threat. Now towards the end of season 3 he's willing to execute Michonne by handing her over to the Governor. She's not only an asset to the group but she's also saved both Carl and Hershel. Rick's moral compass has certainly shifted. All in all I enjoyed the episode, a necessary instalment in the development of Rick's character.

[rongravy]

I just want to say that with all the buddy buddy time going on between the two camps, I kind of got this weird Julius Caesar vibe in my head. Like Rick's gang and these guys, realizing that Rick's gang ain't SO bad and that the Governor is bat shit crazy/suicidal, team up to take him down with old Miltie playing Brutus's part by getting the last knife all up in there... Like the Governator is some pissed off, one eyed pinata, and they're all like sugar crazed kids with sticks trying to get some CANDEH. I know it's not going to happen, but it'd be a pretty sweeet change up. Nobody'd see THAT coming...

[facestabber]

I think the episode exposed just how much Rick has changed since he killed Shane and lost Lori. Towards the end of season 2 he was willing to spare Randall. a legitimate threat. Now towards the end of season 3 he's willing to execute Michonne by handing her over to the Governor. She's not only an asset to the group but she's also saved both Carl and Hershel. Rick's moral compass has certainly shifted. All in all I enjoyed the episode, a necessary instalment in the development of Rick's character. Just because Rick has said it out loud doesnt mean he is willing to execute Michonne. As the leader he is going to ponder all possible outcomes but in his heart he knows the Gov is evil. But the Gov threw out the life sparing of ricks son and daughter and the father in him is forced to contemplate it. Being the leader of a group and a father is a real bitch. No doubt Rick has hardened. I can't fault him for that but I believe he will make the right call regarding Michonne.

[bassman]

Was the end of the episode skipped over? Rick isn't going to hand over Michonne....

[MinionZombie]

Was the end of the episode skipped over? Rick isn't going to hand over Michonne.... Aye, that's what I was thinking. From how I remember it, it was slightly weird - he'd made his decision - we're going to war - and afterwards he has this conversation with Hershel, so it was a little ass-backwards in some regards ... talking about shutting the gate after the horse has already bolted, you know? But yeah - it was why we got a reminder at the start of Carl saying "she's one of us", so Rick has accepted Michonne fully into the group. However if this pow-wow had come a few days earlier, he might very well have handed her over, but the sit-down came too late for that. I think there's also the element of leaving that backpacker behind - he's been heading further and further out into a harsh wilderness, and now it's time to row back a bit and defend the good people. As Rick also said, he wasn't falling for Philip's talk about leaving them alone. So it's a slightly awkward scene in some slight regards, as I've said above, but yeah - the decision's been made - Michonne isn't being handed over. Instead, the gloves are off, shit's on, and it's war time baby.

[Morto Vivente]

Sorry guy's I didn't make myself clear. I agree, just because Rick said it doesn't mean he'll actually hand Michonne over to the Governor. I'm just saying I don't think Rick in season 2 wouldn't even have contemplated such an act. Maybe I read it wrong, but it seemed that Rick was confiding in Hershel and hadn't come to a concrete decision about which choice to make, even although he knows the Governor cannot be trusted. Ultimately though I don't think Michonne will end up in the hands of the Governor.

[Staredge]

Or, he plans on turning her over. He tells everyone they're going out on recon. He takes her, turns her over, tells the group that she went down. Or, he doesn't plan on turning her over, but tells her what's going on and sends her in to get inside. (possibly with the assistance of someone on the inside of Woodbury)

[shootemindehead]

I thought they handled Rick's dilemma fine. He's genuinely at an indecisive moment and we've certainly all been there. He knows the likelihood of surviving an all-out assault from the Govs goons would be rather low, so the option of handing over one to save the majority would be quite tempting, even if you could completely convince yourself that it was the right thing to do and that the Gov would keep his word. I think he's confiding with Hershel and looking for council. It's obvious to everyone that that road isn't going to be taken though. Also, this Rick in S3 has a different set of motives. They have the prison now, which could be a decent place to sit out the zombie apoc, if the wankers from Woodbury would just feck off. In S2, they were only a temporary concern on Hershel's farm, who said time and time again that they would have to move on at some point. For the first time since the outbreak, they actually have a place worth fighting for.

[bassman]

F*ck it....it's the apocalypse. Rick should have taken all those grenades from Morgan and just blown the sh*t out of Woodbury like a boss. But of course that would be an abrupt ending to the season....

[krisvds]

Another 'ok' episode. Not nearly as good as the previous but yoy can't win 'em all I suppose. Still grating ater all these episodes: - Andrea's motivations are as baffling as ever. Her patience with the governor is beyond comprehension. - The governor just isn't that threatening. - For a zombie show set in the middle of the apocalypse there isn't much dread now is there? The series isn't scary enough.

[bassman]

- The governor just isn't that threatening. So far i'm loving the way they're treating him in TV series. In the comic he's more of a straight-forward villain, but in the show they've given him more depth, which I enjoy. You can almost relate to him. He's obviously the villain, but his choices are just barely out of reach for the viewers. You understand his decisions even if you don't agree with them. And hats off to David Morrisey. The man has helped create an amazing TV character, imo.

[MinionZombie]

So far i'm loving the way they're treating him in TV series. In the comic he's more of a straight-forward villain, but in the show they've given him more depth, which I enjoy. You can almost relate to him. He's obviously the villain, but his choices are just barely out of reach for the viewers. You understand his decisions even if you don't agree with them. And hats off to David Morrisey. The man has helped create an amazing TV character, imo. ^^^ This a thousand times over. I enjoyed the comic book guv'nah, but the TV show version is much more satisfying from a character exploration perspective. He's bad news from the jump in the comics, but yeah, you actually sympathise with Morrissey's version in the first half of the season, and you can understand his motivations, even if they make him an enemy of we the viewer (because, well, we viewers are going to be on Team Prison's side from the off anyway). I'm really looking forward to seeing how this all plays out. Ooh, delicious... Speaking of not being able to read the episode (in a good way), did anyone else get nervous when Rick drank the whiskey? Personally I'd never drink anything offered by the guv'nah.

[Moon Knight]

I love Morrissey's Governor. I never thought I would feel any sympathy for him after reading the comics. Him and Lincoln had great chemistry in that scene. He's charming and a total asshole at the scene time. The way he dissected Rick to uncover any weaknesses was flat out amazing.

[babomb]

Another 'ok' episode. Not nearly as good as the previous but yoy can't win 'em all I suppose. Still grating ater all these episodes: - Andrea's motivations are as baffling as ever. Her patience with the governor is beyond comprehension. - The governor just isn't that threatening. - For a zombie show set in the middle of the apocalypse there isn't much dread now is there? The series isn't scary enough. Agreed. I liked the episode quite a bit myself. Although it was very well played and constructed, it was, after all, a slow "setup" episode for what's to come. So it didn't have any of the grit that captivates us. But it was necessary. There'd be no way to convey all the information in this episode in between a bunch of action sequences and hardcore kill scenes. I agree with whoever said earlier that it seemed a bit disjointed. Sort of out of continuity. We were never made aware of any meeting to take place. We were just expecting that the shit would hit the fan in a big way at any time. And due to the fact that this show airs on a normal network channel as opposed to a premium channel, and the fact that they seem to be at least somewhat catering to a softer audience, they were limited in how disturbed they could make the GOV. So the result of that seems to be that there's a disconnect in the Gov's level of evil. In the show he's seen as an extremely disturbed maniac, but to us, the viewers, he isn't as menacing and threatening as we're expected to see him as. Especially to those of us that are familiar with the source material.