How Many to Save the World?

[Wyldwraith]

Atheists amuse me, Most (don't want to generalize) that I've spoken with profess to hold rationality and science as the highest guiding principles in the Universe. What amuses me about a dogged disbelief in God is that by definition no true scientist would be willing to definitively state there is no God. Where's the evidence to prove or disprove a posited theory? Now, if someone wants to state their categorical *belief* in the non-existence of any sort of God then hey, feel free. If you want to state it as a fact though it would be nice if the facts that prove one's position were also supplied.

[EvilNed]

If you want to state it as a fact though it would be nice if the facts that prove one's position were also supplied. I cannot prove that there is no higher-up entity. But I can prove that there is no benevolent, all-powerful creature as in the Bible, or Torah, or Quran or whatever. Because the state of the world simply proves that there can not be any such being. "We have to doubt the existance of a God that creates us in his image, and then blames us for his mistakes." I know there is not such a god. But I don't know that there aren't any supernatural beings out there. I just laugh at the ridiculous notion.

[triste realtà]

Jesus and his dad are a myth, y'all Here's the proof: Merry Christmas!

[Skippy911sc]

Hahaha I loved that video... Funny Stuff...check out the banking video from the same guys...Those are fantastic!!

[EvilNed]

Just because something is wrapped around the veil of the "documentary" doesn't mean it's true. But this is the only part of Zeitgeist that actually seems to ring true. There are no sources, except for the New Testament (which was written centuries after it's alleged it took place) that suggest there was ever a man named Jesus Christ. And this is completely on-topic, considering... erh... Well, everyone knows that the guys who made Zeitgeist, happen to be born on the same day as the Council of Nicea was held, and that ties it together with this thread that was not created, but concieved on that very same date as well. It's true!

[Mike70]

Atheists amuse me, Most (don't want to generalize) that I've spoken with profess to hold rationality and science as the highest guiding principles in the Universe. What amuses me about a dogged disbelief in God is that by definition no true scientist would be willing to definitively state there is no God. Where's the evidence to prove or disprove a posited theory? Now, if someone wants to state their categorical *belief* in the non-existence of any sort of God then hey, feel free. If you want to state it as a fact though it would be nice if the facts that prove one's position were also supplied. is it me or is this ridiculous? one can neither prove nor disprove the existence of such a being. while i call myself an atheist and do not believe in the existence (note the word believe) of a god such as the one in the bible or koran, i do keep myself open to the possibility of a universal prime mover or prime mind. that the universe itself is actually a living thing and we are all merely reflections of it. this is rather close to what the hindu religion believes in and is probably why i find the hindu faith to be the most intriguing of the major religions. one of my major problems with god and the belief in him is the concept of sin. the idea that a being who could literally bring the universe and everything in it into existence with words becoming offended by something i do or say is, to me, laughably inane and something only a 4 year old could hold true.

[Trencher]

For genuinly good people I would say that it is perhaps 1% to 2% percent of the population. For genuinly evil people I would say its about 2% - 4%. The rest of of the people just want to get by maybe have some fun and not get into any trouble.

[MoonSylver]

is it me or is this ridiculous? one can neither prove nor disprove the existence of such a being. while i call myself an atheist and do not believe in the existence (note the word believe) of a god such as the one in the bible or koran, i do keep myself open to the possibility of a universal prime mover or prime mind. that the universe itself is actually a living thing and we are all merely reflections of it. this is rather close to what the hindu religion believes in and is probably why i find the hindu faith to be the most intriguing of the major religions. I would suspect there are a lot of people who feel like you do. They believe in some sort of a supreme being, but don't buy organized religion. Agnostic: unsure as to if there is a god & if so what it is, but open to the possibility. I myself am a spiritual person. Even religious to an extent, but not a member of any of the "big 3" (or even 4). I do believe there is SOMETHING out there. When I think of something as large, complex & intricate, that works with such PRECISION as the universe, or the earth itself, I have a hard time accepting it is all an accident. The odds seem way too long. I do think that anything that is powerful enough to have created all of THAT is so far beyond us that we CANNOT fathom it's thoughts or motives. I think all of the worlds religions have SOME good ideas. SOME good concepts. But there are fanatics in ALL walks of life, who take things to extremes. That's where problems arise. That and accepting scriptures as literal truth. What religion is trying to do (IMO) is put a face on the faceless, give form to something that is formless, infinite & incomprehensible. And that's ok. It's hard to interact with a "being" or an "entity". So we put a mask on god. We give "him" a face. Of course, it looks like us. What we need to realize is that MY concept of god is just as valid as YOURS. It's like an infinite diamond with unlimited facets. All that ALL of us are doing is glimpsing one little facet, not the whole diamond. There is no "right" & "wrong" way to view god, as long as we tolerate & respect each other, & do no harm, ESPECIALLY in the name of "god". I DO think we can interact with "god", but not as a "genie who grants wishes" sort of way. I do believe that if god is infinite & all powerful then that means "he" is EVERYWHERE & EVERYTHING. You are part of god. So am I. So are the rocks & trees, the earth & moon, the sun & stars. Everything. So, I think ALL religions have SOME validity. They are man made constructs that give a framework, a blueprint for tapping into something greater. It's when each of them views themselves as "authentic", given "directly from god" or the "one true way" that we have problems. They're all myth. Parable. Fable. Morality plays. And valid as such, with important lessons to teach, as long as we don't accept them as "literal, revealed truth". I think I had more points to make, but my wife just got home & I'm going to visit my family for the holidays, so if you read this far, thanks for reading my ramblings & if interested I'll ramble more later. (PS - all of the above is IMO ONLY. If you do not believe the same as I, that's cool too, as long as you respect my right to believe what I want, I will do the same to you.)

[Yojimbo]

I would suspect there are a lot of people who feel like you do. They believe in some sort of a supreme being, but don't buy organized religion. Agnostic: unsure as to if there is a god & if so what it is, but open to the possibility. I myself am a spiritual person. Even religious to an extent, but not a member of any of the "big 3" (or even 4). I do believe there is SOMETHING out there. When I think of something as large, complex & intricate, that works with such PRECISION as the universe, or the earth itself, I have a hard time accepting it is all an accident. The odds seem way too long. I do think that anything that is powerful enough to have created all of THAT is so far beyond us that we CANNOT fathom it's thoughts or motives. I think all of the worlds religions have SOME good ideas. SOME good concepts. But there are fanatics in ALL walks of life, who take things to extremes. That's where problems arise. That and accepting scriptures as literal truth. What religion is trying to do (IMO) is put a face on the faceless, give form to something that is formless, infinite & incomprehensible. And that's ok. It's hard to interact with a "being" or an "entity". So we put a mask on god. We give "him" a face. Of course, it looks like us. What we need to realize is that MY concept of god is just as valid as YOURS. It's like an infinite diamond with unlimited facets. All that ALL of us are doing is glimpsing one little facet, not the whole diamond. There is no "right" & "wrong" way to view god, as long as we tolerate & respect each other, & do no harm, ESPECIALLY in the name of "god". I DO think we can interact with "god", but not as a "genie who grants wishes" sort of way. I do believe that if god is infinite & all powerful then that means "he" is EVERYWHERE & EVERYTHING. You are part of god. So am I. So are the rocks & trees, the earth & moon, the sun & stars. Everything. So, I think ALL religions have SOME validity. They are man made constructs that give a framework, a blueprint for tapping into something greater. It's when each of them views themselves as "authentic", given "directly from god" or the "one true way" that we have problems. They're all myth. Parable. Fable. Morality plays. And valid as such, with important lessons to teach, as long as we don't accept them as "literal, revealed truth". I think I had more points to make, but my wife just got home & I'm going to visit my family for the holidays, so if you read this far, thanks for reading my ramblings & if interested I'll ramble more later. (PS - all of the above is IMO ONLY. If you do not believe the same as I, that's cool too, as long as you respect my right to believe what I want, I will do the same to you.) I am in total agreement, Moon. Currently I think of myself as a Buddhist, though I would not consider myself devout and I personally don't really participate much with an organized church group, though I have no quarrel with those who do. I had previously identified myself as agnostic, and given the philosophies of the Buddhists, I think it was not a big leap to make. I guess I really didn't have to identify myself with a major church or temple to continue to be "spiritual" but I have found that sometimes it is nice to have a group to worship with and a Sensei to learn from. Your philosophies and thoughts as stated in your post are quite close to what the Buddhists believe, especially your statement about religion being a means to "put a face on the faceless." My Sensei said that the statue of Buddha, for example, is not meant to be a true depiction of "God" but merely meant to make the infinite more relatable to human beings, and he also said that if we were dogs, then the statue of Buddah would be a that of a dog. I agree that folks should believe what they want to believe and allow others to believe they wish. Anyways, would love to hear more of your thoughts on this matter.

[strayrider]

one of my major problems with god and the belief in him is the concept of sin. the idea that a being who could literally bring the universe and everything in it into existence with words becoming offended by something i do or say is, to me, laughably inane and something only a 4 year old could hold true. Just for the sake of argument, Scip, is it at all possible that one of your own children might do or say something to offend you? Now, or in the future? Keeping in mind that God created man in His own image, meaning that He is just like us (only with a power our limited minds cannot understand). -stray-

[strayrider]

"We have to doubt the existance of a God that creates us in his image, and then blames us for his mistakes." Elaborate on this. Which mistake(s) are you, personally, being blamed for? There are no sources, except for the New Testament (which was written centuries after it's alleged it took place) that suggest there was ever a man named Jesus Christ. Actually, the bulk of the New Testament was written by Saul of Tarsus before his death in 64, or 67 AD, beheaded by Rome. And, there are non-Christian documents (Roman) which refer to Jesus as the leader of a "revolt" in occupied Isreal, executed by order of Pontius Pilate. http://www.livius.org/pi-pm/pilate/pilate06.html -stray-