TWD 4x04 "Indifference" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN**

[MoonSylver]

From what I understood, the new show was to feature none of the same characters? Always subject to change though, I'm sure...

[facestabber]

Not sure why Rick gets all the heat for back pack guy. Michonne drove past him. Yeah(backpack) made me uneasy but war was at hand and trusting anyone outside the prison group was proving very difficult. Their state of mind was probably thinking ambush/possible bad guy but in the end Rick changed(woodsbury). He didnt put a bullet in the guy. But that stuff with Bob on the roof. Jerk went from a hero(risking his life for a bag believed to be of meds) to a piece of shit. If I heard that right, he didnt have any meds? WTF is the deal there. But just as Moon said I thought someone may end up off the roof and into the hands of the walkers. But Stookey nearly drew down on Daryl over a bottle of booze. Alcoholism sucks and all but he is beyond thin ice. I think we saw that Daryl has some empathy for addicts.

[AcesandEights]

The media I have read have lesbians and womens rights die hards ready to kill Rick. Hwah? Really?

[Trencher]

Wow such an amazing episode! Excellent. A bit pacing problems with going back and fourth between action in one group and talk in the other when it was really not necessary but otherwise a classic episode! Best of season four by far! My thoughts: I suspected that Bob were the saboteur, and his witness speech and his alcoholism support that theory except for in typical Hollywood writing alcoholics are usually heroic cool guys so I guess it is going to depend on the writer. Speaking of writer, the episode where Rick and company ignore the hiker were complacently against character and the episode in general was pretty lame especially with how weak the zombies were. That episode were more about the characters being "cool" rather than being the characters they have been so far in the show. This episode however had great acting and the characters were themselves. Daryl have issues with alcoholics, most likely his parents were hopeless drunks and he knows how they can be. As for Rick exiling Carol I can see it. Personally I would have shot her in front of the rest of the prison but exile is also good punishment. Now I feel bad about doing this because back in the day when we were discussing the comic I said that Rick and company should have shot the entire group of prisoners right as they met them. So how can I really judge Carol for removing a threat just as I would have removed another threat? The only difference between prisoners and the sick are moral ones and as a practical matter both are a threat. I thought about it and have come to the conclusion (or maybe just a cheap justification?) that when you take people into your group then you become responsible for taking care of and maintaining their health, dignity and rights. Others also have right to their health and dignity off course but when you get an indication of them being a threat, your own group and yourself goes first. Pretty primitive tribal mindset huh? But I suppose my only defense is that a primitive tribal mindset is still better than being a complete savage and only thinking of what is practical for yourself. In any case it is a great show with exellent writing that makes you think! Very nice indeed. Its not often I second guess myself.

[facestabber]

Hwah? Really? Just internet crap(as I post on here..hahaha) Im guessing her appearance and womanhood have them feeling like she is their hero. Again I gotta say I do like Carol. Far from my favorite. But even with the writers trying hard to build her up as a leader type I would never buy it. She has some skills, but a warrior??? NO way. She still looks awkward as hell when stabbing at walkers and fighting in general. Its probably Mcbrides acting but she doesnt convince me that she could fight her way out of a wet paper bag. Her handle Tyrese? How? With words? Tyrese trusted that woman to be a caregiver and she crapped all over that.

[MinionZombie]

I think that girl was murdered, her leg looked like it had been cut off and surely given her disability she would have screamed. Also that was a well maintained neighborhood Rick and Carol were in, clean cars, mowed lawns and hedges. Maybe they should have done more like show it was a survivors camp until the flu killed them. 1) Yeah, I was wondering about that ... the leg did look a bit cleanly taken off ... hmmm ... a very strange one - where is Sam?! 2) The car Carol took off in had muck all over it ("Pardon Our Dust") and it was unkempt around abouts, but at the same time you can't expect homeowners to make their homes look like shit just for a TV show (they do ask if people can leave their grass uncut, but I imagine it really has to be something everyone does or it'd look weird, and you can't get 1.5 years worth of growth in the time it takes for them to find and secure a location). Extremely difficult decision for Rick, but the right one. He had to do something. Damned either way, really. He went Ricktatorship on this issue, screw the council, kinda thing. If he had brought her back and the truth was outed, Tyreese would have very likely killed her ... but maybe not ... but quite possibly. Had there not been the Tyreese factor, I might have brought her back, locked her up, and put the issue forth to the council. Will Rick lie to the group, or will he tell the truth, and how will folks react? How will Daryl react, too, being Rick's right hand man (and, in some ways, practically his successor)? "The Case of the Two Burned Bodies". Sounds like a job for these chaps... Grim episode, this survival existence is grinding people down, changing them (some for the better, others for the worse). All are suffering though. I'm a bit unsure about alcoholic guy now, at first I thought he was up to no good and untrustworthy, now I just think he is genuinely troubled, felt sorry for him succumbing to his weakness and getting busted by Daryl today...sort of pulling for him now, hoping he can come through and settle a bit. It's interesting to get a look in to addiction in this sort of setting. He potentially has access to all the booze he could ever drink, but he's risking lives (Zack died as a result of Bob's bugger up) and he's thinking irrationally. At the same time though, he's got medical experience, so he's valuable - but on a run? Hell no. He's messed up big style ... although the 'head touch' thing kinda made me giggle a little bit, I'm not entirely sure why but it did, it was still a cool scene to see Daryl's take on leadership in such a situation. Full-on alpha male put-down, but with a tinge of understanding due to experiences with Merle ... but major disappointment after he put his trust (and, really, his life) in Bob's hands. Not sure why Rick gets all the heat for back pack guy. Hmmm, I wasn't aware of that viewpoint being out there. Although it was all a part of Rick's dalliance with madness and distrust. He was going through some major shit at the time, but he'd come around by the end of the season. He also had bigger fish to fry with an impending war hanging around his neck. Yeah, another satisfying episode - there's plenty of meat on these bones. TWD 4x04 Memes: http://deadshed.blogspot.co.uk/2013/...dead-4x04.html

[Legion2213]

Haha! That 2nd TWD meme is gold! Love it. Think I'll watch all of S4 so far again this weekend...what a season it's shaping up to be!

[MinionZombie]

Haha! That 2nd TWD meme is gold! Love it. Think I'll watch all of S4 so far again this weekend...what a season it's shaping up to be! 1) Very kind, Sir. I do find it amusing how there's always a new term used by a group they've just encountered for the first time ... I do hope they stumble upon a group one day who also call them "walkers" and then Rick'll shout "SNAP!" and high five them. 2) I'm stacking them up on my Sky+ so that once the mid-season break swings by I can have a right old marathon.

[Mr. Clean]

Yes, much better episode! My question for everyone pissed at Rick.....With so many people out on runs, a flu outbreak, and the looming threat of zombies pushing over the fence....When the hell are they going to find the time to have an emergency meeting to make decisions? Now with that said, let's examine the council.... The council members are Hershel, Daryl, Glenn, Carol and Sasha. Hershel = Attending the Sick Daryl = Out on a Run Glenn = Sick Carol = The Problem / Out on a Run Sasha = Sick ------------------------------ At this point, the council is FUBAR. If you somehow feel that the group can wait a few days or weeks to have a meeting then I would like to know how that works. One thing rings true and that is when all else fails, everyone looks to Rick for leadership. He may have had to step down as leader due to him suffering his loss of Lori but that doesn't disqualify him from taking up the Leadership position again(Should the needs of the group require him to do so). Also, Rick's decision to exile Carol doesn't carry the same weight as her choice to murder two members of the group.....had he put a gun to her head and pulled the trigger then I would agree that he is a hypocrite. He has no right to take her life but he does have the right to expose her to the rest of the group. She wanted him to keep his mouth shut about the whole thing but he made it clear that he wouldn't so she knew she had to leave. With the council unable to make decisions, Rick probably feels some responsibility to make decisions for the group. I would also like to point out the fact that before the council went FUBAR....he made the decision to save the prison by killing the piggies(food supply) and didn't receive any negative points for that. There are reasons platoons and smaller groups have a "Leader" or one person in charge and not a democratic decision making process.

[kidgloves]

Wow such an amazing episode! Excellent. A bit pacing problems with going back and fourth between action in one group and talk in the other when it was really not necessary but otherwise a classic episode! Best of season four by far! My thoughts: I suspected that Bob were the saboteur, and his witness speech and his alcoholism support that theory except for in typical Hollywood writing alcoholics are usually heroic cool guys so I guess it is going to depend on the writer. Speaking of writer, the episode where Rick and company ignore the hiker were complacently against character and the episode in general was pretty lame especially with how weak the zombies were. That episode were more about the characters being "cool" rather than being the characters they have been so far in the show. This episode however had great acting and the characters were themselves. Daryl have issues with alcoholics, most likely his parents were hopeless drunks and he knows how they can be. As for Rick exiling Carol I can see it. Personally I would have shot her in front of the rest of the prison but exile is also good punishment. Now I feel bad about doing this because back in the day when we were discussing the comic I said that Rick and company should have shot the entire group of prisoners right as they met them. So how can I really judge Carol for removing a threat just as I would have removed another threat? The only difference between prisoners and the sick are moral ones and as a practical matter both are a threat. I thought about it and have come to the conclusion (or maybe just a cheap justification?) that when you take people into your group then you become responsible for taking care of and maintaining their health, dignity and rights. Others also have right to their health and dignity off course but when you get an indication of them being a threat, your own group and yourself goes first. Pretty primitive tribal mindset huh? But I suppose my only defense is that a primitive tribal mindset is still better than being a complete savage and only thinking of what is practical for yourself. In any case it is a great show with exellent writing that makes you think! Very nice indeed. Its not often I second guess myself. I would do a clap emoticon but we don't have one

[babomb]

My gripe is that he didn't give her the choice. Because he has no authority to say that he has to detain her so she can go before the council. Tyreese at this point is most worried about his sister. So when they do get back, that will be priority 1. If they don't make it back, thr group still has to deal with the situation. It's not as if Carol is such a threat that she might slaughter the remaining survivors when they get back. Nobody else besides Rick knows it was Carol that burned the bodies. So if they returned, Tyreese isn't gonna immediately kill her. There's time for the group to recover before Rick brings their attention to the Carol situation. By that time they could also take steps to prevent Tyreese from killing her. There's nothing that proves that allowing Carol to come back will inevitably result in all out chaos. It's possible, but it's also possible that the decision Rick made will also cause some serious problems. Like Rick said, he made that decision for himself, out of his own self interest. Not for the group as a whole.

[Neil]

Just watched the episode again (yes, I know I don't have a life) and I watched it with closed-captioning so I didn't miss a damned word. I'm not sure if I'm missing something but I'm NOT convinced Carol killed Karen and David. I honestly think she's covering for that little girl (Lizzie, I think?) whom she took under her wing. Just don't see that...

[kidgloves]

Just don't see that... They did make a point to show that Lizzie? had a knife in the beginning and there have been other clues as well. Im loving the mystery anyway. Never seen so much discussion on HPOTD about TWD as i've seen this season.

[facestabber]

Yes, much better episode! My question for everyone pissed at Rick.....With so many people out on runs, a flu outbreak, and the looming threat of zombies pushing over the fence....When the hell are they going to find the time to have an emergency meeting to make decisions? Now with that said, let's examine the council.... The council members are Hershel, Daryl, Glenn, Carol and Sasha. Hershel = Attending the Sick Daryl = Out on a Run Glenn = Sick Carol = The Problem / Out on a Run Sasha = Sick ------------------------------ At this point, the council is FUBAR. If you somehow feel that the group can wait a few days or weeks to have a meeting then I would like to know how that works. One thing rings true and that is when all else fails, everyone looks to Rick for leadership. He may have had to step down as leader due to him suffering his loss of Lori but that doesn't disqualify him from taking up the Leadership position again(Should the needs of the group require him to do so). Also, Rick's decision to exile Carol doesn't carry the same weight as her choice to murder two members of the group.....had he put a gun to her head and pulled the trigger then I would agree that he is a hypocrite. He has no right to take her life but he does have the right to expose her to the rest of the group. She wanted him to keep his mouth shut about the whole thing but he made it clear that he wouldn't so she knew she had to leave. With the council unable to make decisions, Rick probably feels some responsibility to make decisions for the group. I would also like to point out the fact that before the council went FUBAR....he made the decision to save the prison by killing the piggies(food supply) and didn't receive any negative points for that. There are reasons platoons and smaller groups have a "Leader" or one person in charge and not a democratic decision making process. Good points. My only hope is that Rick tells the group the truth. No need to make up any stuff. His investigation led him to Carol, she admitted it. And she shows no remorse. And Babomb you make some valid points as well. Though you were wrong(to my pleasure) about Daryl dying prediction. I dont think Tyrese would have gone gangsta rage and murdered Carol immediately after hearing the truth. I think Daryl, Michonne Tyrese and Co. would exhibit shock/disbelief. Tyrese in particular would just be crushed and in pain that someone he left to look after his sister was the killer of his girlfriend. I will leave it with this. If Carol felt so right about her decision, why not man the fuck up when Tyrese has her boy toy pinned against the fence aggressively and dropping fists moments later to Rick. Carol is neat and all but not a leader. Take your beating if you believe you were so justified bitch....j/k The bitch part anyway.

[Neil]

They did make a point to show that Lizzie? had a knife in the beginning and there have been other clues as well. Im loving the mystery anyway. Never seen so much discussion on HPOTD about TWD as i've seen this season. It would take a flash back to reveal the (true) events; A technique I've never seen used in this series before. And I can't see them using it.