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Thread: TWD 3x07 "When The Dead Come Knocking" episode discussion...**SPOILERS WITHIN**

  1. #31
    Webmaster Neil's Avatar
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    I thought this episode was beautifully dark with great violence and tension!

    Thought the house in the middle of nowhere (but just a few minutes from Woodbury?) with the guy happily sleeping in there with a thousand zombies nearby, felt a bit odd!? Would have been better explained if he'd obviously been on watch for the town or something!? Just felt a bit contrived...


    Quote Originally Posted by ProfessorChaos View Post
    distracted by andrea's ass
    Yep... Yep... and... yep!

    Surprised there aren't caps of that on the internet already
    Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there--on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam. [click for more]
    -Carl Sagan

  2. #32
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    I don't know,
    From the comments/reactions seen here so often, there seems to be a developing pattern with the scriptwriting to change things completely (in isolated characterisation segments) from the comic to how it goes in the show. Enough so that I'm more inclined to buy into well-reasoned speculation than perceive the comics as a view into the future plotline of TWD show. Do they borrow a lot from it? Judging by the comics fans here, sure. Yet they also change up people still alive in the comics currently (or at least surviving vastly longer than this point in the show-timeline) who have been dead in the show for some time, and interpose one character in place of another for events that are judged pivotal/searing by comic readers. Ie: Herschel getting his leg chopped off.

    Would I be fine with them killing no one else from the group for the remainder of the season? Absolutely. I just don't see it believably happening. If a prison full of a few dozen undead limited to melee threat-posing cost lives when they were all together, all working in unison, how likely is it that Rick and his little strike team will a) Get into Woodbury without a fight (Can see this section happening), b) Find Glenn and Maggie either without raising the alarm or quickly enough after raising said alarm to still be ahead of the Gov's converging thugs, c) Make a getaway from Woodbury, over a significant distance on foot, ESPECIALLY when we know their actions have pulled significant numbers of Walkers into the immediate area/closer to Woodbury. Yes, they have a car, but it's way back several hundred yards beyond the hermit-walker snack's cabin. And finally d) Accomplish all of the above, with no one sustaining a lethal gunshot or bite? Thugs or not, the Governor's boys are at LEAST *competent* shooters. Yes, they had the element of surprise on the military convoy, but VERY FEW rounds missed their mark. It wasn't just a close-range pop-up spray and pray that cut the military boys down after all.

    Then, when you add in the deficiency in weaponry and homefield advantage to the Woodbury crew...Could Rick somehow manage to spirit them all to safety? Of course he could...if the writers decided he could. Believably with 0% captured or killed? That's an ENTIRELY different, and (IMHO) vastly more unlikely a proposition. Miracles happen, but it's funny how they seem to happen to people otherwise covering all the bases, with personnel highly proficient in their designated tasks, and a first-rate plan of attack. Don't get me wrong, from a viewer standpoint I get a major kick out of Rick's "Making it up as I go along, and then presenting it as if it's a well-considered and polished planned endeavor" to his people. It's fun the way improbable action-hero violence and drama is fun. It also works TONS BETTER when the adversary is a known, unchanging, ultimately limited quantity like the Walkers. Humans are incredibly unpredictable. Example: The alarm gets raised at some point once Rick & Co. penetrate Woodbury...instead of joining the pursuit, Merle decided to go size up their likely escape route and hides somewhere along it, and then pops up from concealment as they're trying to cover their asses as they escape...much more fluid a dynamic when your adversary has the CAPACITY to behave in an anticipatory fashion.

    Just my thoughts and idle speculations, yours may at all times vary wildly.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil View Post
    Anyone else notice, 10 mins in, where we pan up to see the front gate of the town and a guard up on the wall... The barrel of his gun was very bent!
    Attachment 1173

    Not as good as one of these...

    Attachment 1174
    I'm runnin' this monkey farm now Frankenstein.....

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil View Post
    Anyone else notice, 10 mins in, where we pan up to see the front gate of the town and a guard up on the wall... The barrel of his gun was very bent!
    http://forum.homepageofthedead.com/s...037#post292037

    Someone's already done a meme of it, have a gander at the above link (I also did a bunch more myself, e.g. below)...



    Loads more in the "Get out of here Carl" thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by ProfessorChaos View Post
    and after rewatching the episode, that music at the end is piercing and vibrant, really ratcheting up the tension and making us fans restless to see how things turn out.

    and in the previews for next week, does it appear to anyone else that the governor has a look of shock on his face as a door is closed on him? could it be that he's about to get his already?
    1) It's got a Day of the Dead vibe, doesn't it? Really cool music so far this season.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neil View Post
    Thought the house in the middle of nowhere (but just a few minutes from Woodbury?) with the guy happily sleeping in there with a thousand zombies nearby, felt a bit odd!? Would have been better explained if he'd obviously been on watch for the town or something!? Just felt a bit contrived...

    Yep... Yep... and... yep!

    Surprised there aren't caps of that on the internet already
    1) The Governor's crew have said more than once that the prison and the surrounding area is the "red zone", so that explains why they've not really ventured into that area, as well as why you wouldn't want to go exploring around in that area too much. A little hunting lodge tucked away in the woods? I can easily buy that being missed by a handful of people in a large, walker-infested area of land.

    2) Andrea's arse? I imagine the internet will accomodate you post haste, if it hasn't already.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by MinionZombie View Post
    1) The Governor's crew have said more than once that the prison and the surrounding area is the "red zone", so that explains why they've not really ventured into that area, as well as why you wouldn't want to go exploring around in that area too much. A little hunting lodge tucked away in the woods? I can easily buy that being missed by a handful of people in a large, walker-infested area of land.
    But it was within a few mins walk from the town supposedly? How had he survived, alone, all that time with so many walkers around? Just felt a bit clunky... Anyway v.minor!
    Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there--on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam. [click for more]
    -Carl Sagan

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil View Post
    But it was within a few mins walk from the town supposedly? How had he survived, alone, all that time with so many walkers around? Just felt a bit clunky... Anyway v.minor!
    I wasnt too bothered by it. I think it would have been more passible if the redneck wasnt portrayed as crazy. If he was Daryl Dixon like it would be easier to accept.

    I cant believe the pace and how fast this first half of season 3 has went. It is a stark contrast to the slow developing story of season 2. I enjoyed season 2 dont get me wrong but each episode of season 3 has me on the edge of my seat. Im nervous before each episode of what fates our group may meet. The writers have done an excellent job of changing the pace between seasons. With the Gov/Woodbury in close proximity with the prison there doesnt seem to be room to slow down at all. So I guess we will see how good the writers are if they must keep up with this pace. Will they run out of material?

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil View Post
    But it was within a few mins walk from the town supposedly? How had he survived, alone, all that time with so many walkers around? Just felt a bit clunky... Anyway v.minor!
    Well they drive away from the prison and park up, then proceed on foot and end up quickly at the shack, and then after the buffet of guts, they arrive at Woodbury by nightfall - so it's all not minutes away from anything respectively.

    As for the hermit - that's what hermits do. He's holed up in there just him and his dead dog, so he's not making any noise or movement, and as far as the walkers are concerned there's nothing in there. No doubt the gathering was more coincidental, and of course our gang bring it all right to his front door. These groups of walkers roam around and move in different directions (remember their discussions around the car bonnet when they were analysing the map before they found the prison?)

    Quote Originally Posted by facestabber View Post
    I wasnt too bothered by it. I think it would have been more passible if the redneck wasnt portrayed as crazy. If he was Daryl Dixon like it would be easier to accept.

    I cant believe the pace and how fast this first half of season 3 has went. It is a stark contrast to the slow developing story of season 2. I enjoyed season 2 dont get me wrong but each episode of season 3 has me on the edge of my seat. Im nervous before each episode of what fates our group may meet. The writers have done an excellent job of changing the pace between seasons. With the Gov/Woodbury in close proximity with the prison there doesnt seem to be room to slow down at all. So I guess we will see how good the writers are if they must keep up with this pace. Will they run out of material?
    1) But, being a loon, he attacks the group, which makes the audience feel okay with them feeding his body to the undead horde outside.

    2) I know what you mean. I watch this show hunched forward on my chair gawping at the screen. I don't tolerate any interruptions during TWD as well, so I always make sure I'm not going to be having to pause in the middle of the action and drama for any reason.

    I can't imagine they'll run out of material as there's so much more for them to cover from the comics, as well as wherever their own diversions might take them. It'll be interesting to see where we end up - I can't imagine we'll lose The Governor before the end of the season at the earliest. There's so much more to mine there.

    I did see one of AMC's officially released preview teaser images for 3x08 though:

     
    Michonne comes face-to-sack-covered-face with Penny.


    I'd imagine something will happen there to really piss off The Governor.

    The preview clips for the next episode also show the return of the games arena - blimey - that makes me nervous!
    Last edited by MinionZombie; 27-Nov-2012 at 05:25 PM.

  8. #38
    Just Married AcesandEights's Avatar
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    Glad I wasn't the only one to notice the 80s-style, synth horror music--that was riveting and extremely well done!

    I think it was a great episode with lots of humanity, very well done acting and great pacing throughout. Now I'm chompin' at the bit for the mid-season finale

    "Men choose as their prophets those who tell them that their hopes are true." --Lord Dunsany

  9. #39
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    Perhaps it's been mentioned and I missed it, but Bear McCreary posts videos and trivia about each episode's score the day after it airs. bearmccreary.com

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by AcesandEights View Post
    Glad I wasn't the only one to notice the 80s-style, synth horror music--that was riveting and extremely well done!
    I noticed! I liked!
    Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there--on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam. [click for more]
    -Carl Sagan

  11. #41
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    The music was awesome. As usual.
    "That's the deal, right? The people who are living have it harder, right? … the whole world is haunted now and there's no getting out of that, not until we're dead."

  12. #42
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    That superb bit of music is going to be The Governors character theme from now on. Its called The Pulse
    From McCreary's blog

    The pulse is now a permanent part of the Governor Theme. *It represents the inner-most regions of his psyche, that he tries to keep hidden from the rest of the world. In coming episodes, we will see more of what lies inside this man. The synthesizer pulse will augment his journey.
    Last edited by kidgloves; 27-Nov-2012 at 09:25 PM. Reason: blah blah
    The body is the instrument on which imagination plays.

    MY HOME CINEMA

  13. #43
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    Bear seems so cool. His music is a very important and the least spoken part of why TWD works so well. I'm gonna go ahead and assume he did the opening theme as well.
    "That's the deal, right? The people who are living have it harder, right? … the whole world is haunted now and there's no getting out of that, not until we're dead."

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidgloves View Post
    That superb bit of music is going to be The Governors character theme from now on. Its called The Pulse
    From McCreary's blog



    Heh, I beat him to the punch by over a week.

    http://www.soundcloud.com/jonofthesh...e-shred-undead

    Clearly he was listening to Goblins Dawn of the Dead soundtrack just like me when he composed that piece of music. He should really take me on as an apprentice.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MinionZombie View Post
    Well, any decisions regarding the scripts for season three would have been made long ago before it even started airing, so the fan reactions won't have any impact until season four.

    Regarding characters and the doom-laden chopping block:

    As Mazzara said about not killing off Hershel in season two (partly to do with having to kill of Dale), if they had done, it would have been gratuitous and only for "shock value" - so I don't believe they'd go for "shock value" deaths as that is cheap and lacks meaning. T-Dog was a hero's death, and you need someone to die as a result of Andrew's actions (and in-turn, Rick not directly killing Andrew) ... then of course, the natural direction to go for maximum drama is to have the birth at the worst time, and that death has big dramatic pay offs for multiple characters.

    Carl is further torn from his childhood, Maggie is traumatised, Rick loses his wife and goes nuts, Carol (now) can repurpose her mothering skills for Judith and continue to be the heart and emotional core of the group, and so on...

    Now, characters - let's see...

    Rick - you can't kill him, it's extremely important that he's the leader and we see the continued effects of the apocalypse on this man from the start: it just keeps chipping away at him.

    Carl - a child before the apocalypse who is thrown into a perverse adulthood in a deadly world. He's extremely important to keep around, plus the whole father/son dynamic.

    Glenn - a great everyman cipherr, capable of a lot, but not the centre of attention. I share the opinions, outlook, and direction of Rick, but I'd imagine I'd be more of a Glenn in a similar situation. Capable, but not up-front unless needed there. His relationship with Maggie is key too - theirs is one born after the apocalypse, which is a really interesting dynamic. All the other relationships were being torn asunder by the apocalypse (e.g. Rick and Lori), but here's one being created as a result of it. Glenn and Maggie are tightly linked as a pairing too.

    Maggie - see above, but also I can't see them killing her off as you'd get more mileage out of the emotional damage caused by this ordeal ... not to go into it, but there is definitely fertile ground from the comics to explore regarding Maggie and emotional torment. She's also ruddy handy in a fight.

    Carol - the aforementioned heart and emotional core of the group. It's important to have someone who is perhaps receiving more than she's giving (in terms of survivalism). Kirkman has said that Carol was always someone in the comics who was one of the least capable for surviving in such a setting, so really, it's a real struggle for her and that's interesting. Here though she can now really help out with the mothering aspect - that wonderfully performed scene between McBride and Lincoln illustrated this.

    Daryl - too beloved by fans and far too capable in survivalism to go down at this stage. I can see it happening sometime, but hopefully far into the future, and in extremely high stakes. In the context of being utterly and hopelessly overwhelmed/outnumbered/cornered, or perhaps more likely, in the process of saving the lives of others (a hero's death) ... but it'd be foolish to kill him off this season, and still foolish next season. I hope he's around for a very long time!

    Hershel - valuable medical skills, but he could be on the chopping block at some point this season. Could we see the doctor from Woodbury joining Team Prison at some point? He does provide the worldly wise voice of an old sage though (as Dale once was). Age and wisdom are good to have.

    Beth - hasn't been able to do an awful lot. Would like to see more of her in the show (the sweet little exchanges between her and Carl is a cute side-line). She's waiting to find a niche in this world for sure.

    Michonne - too handy in a fight. It makes sense that Maggie replaced her in the interrogation as Michonne is so suspicious she'd be unlikely to end up in that situation (plus Merle lied about her dying).

    Andrea - too handy with a gun, we need to see her re-team with the prison lot, and she's hot for damaged leader figures ... Rick's a single man again after all.

    Merle - I can definitely see Daryl having to kill his brother, or perhaps allow his brother to die in a binary choice situation. I can see that being a dramatic high point of this season. Merle's deeds have rendered him as high risk for the chopping block.

    Milton - we've not seen enough of him yet. I like his character and would like to see much more of him in the show as time progresses.

    Axel & Oscar - we've only just got them in the show, so they're surely safe for now. We've not had much time with them.

    Judith the Baby - well, a baby is pretty defenceless.

    So anyway ... point being that there's so much to be done with so many of these characters and a shock value death isn't what the show aims to do. It has to be integral to the plot to kill someone off, and you don't want to lose beloved central protagonists who have so much more to give.

    I'm wondering if they think that the audience will be expecting a death in the mid-season finale, and then not have one. I'd be down for that - too many deaths takes too many dramatic options away, and you don't want to let your audience become inured to such events. Better to leave the tension-filled threat of impending doom hanging over everyone's head for the most part, and only swinging the axe when it is absolutely necessary (and makes a lot of sense).
    Also, I wasn't suggesting Daryl would be killed off. I'm just saying...if the Governor killed off Daryl, he would be more hated than the Governor from the comics. Because Daryl is clearly the fan favorite of the show. But I enjoyed reading this break down anyway, well done!

  15. #45
    Walking Dead Moon Knight's Avatar
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    Damn, that is pretty nice. Good stuff.
    "That's the deal, right? The people who are living have it harder, right? … the whole world is haunted now and there's no getting out of that, not until we're dead."

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