The Real Debate Batman (1989) or Batman Begins (2005)

[EvilNed]

I just find the notion of ninjas to be so incomprehensible silly, that no serious film should feature them. The Last Samurai anyone?

[DjfunkmasterG]

I just find the notion of ninjas to be so incomprehensible silly, that no serious film should feature them. The Last Samurai anyone? You do know that Ninjitsu was not just a fighting style? It is ancient Japanese art. A ninjitsu master is considered one of the top martial arts masters in the world, and the ninja are steeped in Japanese culture and held in very high regard throughout the Japanese community. It takes 20+ years to master the style which is filled with extreme self discipline and culture.

[EvilNed]

You do know that Ninjitsu was not just a fighting style? It is ancient Japanese art. A ninjitsu master is considered one of the top martial arts masters in the world, and the ninja are steeped in Japanese culture and held in very high regard throughout the Japanese community. It takes 20+ years to master the style which is filled with extreme self discipline and culture. I probably know more about ninjutsu than any other guy here on this board. I practiced it for a few years, and I tell you that most Ninjutsu arts out there are pure bogus. Try Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu, which is the most complete (but still far from the original art) martial art out there. Ninjas did not dress in black and go around murder people. They were, put simply, spies. Nothing else. They were spies, just like there were spies in medieval europe, in ancient times etc. etc. They would infiltrate a place, and would only kill if necessary (self defence). Most of the time they would rather get killed themselves, since ninjutsu is a form of spying, rather than fighting. A samurai or even a simple palace guard, would have more experience fighting than a ninja would. That's why the notion of secret ninja societies with straight swords (ninja-to, look it up) is just stupid. Original ninjutsu had you training in things like climbing walls, breathing underwater, stealing and such things. It was more of a survival art than a fighting art (but there were elements of fighting, of course).

[Eyebiter]

The Joker in Batman was excellent compared to the Dark Ninjas of Batman Begins. Also the character of Alfred was well done. However given the choice I'd rather watch Batman Begins.

[Tullaryx]

I probably know more about ninjutsu than any other guy here on this board. I practiced it for a few years, and I tell you that most Ninjutsu arts out there are pure bogus. Try Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu, which is the most complete (but still far from the original art) martial art out there. Ninjas did not dress in black and go around murder people. They were, put simply, spies. Nothing else. They were spies, just like there were spies in medieval europe, in ancient times etc. etc. They would infiltrate a place, and would only kill if necessary (self defence). Most of the time they would rather get killed themselves, since ninjutsu is a form of spying, rather than fighting. A samurai or even a simple palace guard, would have more experience fighting than a ninja would. That's why the notion of secret ninja societies with straight swords (ninja-to, look it up) is just stupid. Original ninjutsu had you training in things like climbing walls, breathing underwater, stealing and such things. It was more of a survival art than a fighting art (but there were elements of fighting, of course). You are correct. But as for your assertion its hard to take ninjas seriously in the film....It's a comic book movie with a storyline trying to base the setting to more realistic and modern times. It's like saying Star Wars and Star Trek films are hard to take seriously because you can here noise in space during the battles. Science fact that since there is no air in space and its a total vacuum there can't be any sound made.

[bassman]

You are correct. But as for your assertion its hard to take ninjas seriously in the film....It's a comic book movie with a storyline trying to base the setting to more realistic and modern times. It's like saying Star Wars and Star Trek films are hard to take seriously because you can here noise in space during the battles. Science fact that since there is no air in space and its a total vacuum there can't be any sound made. You fellas ever heard of suspension of disbelief? You need to use it in almost every film. It's just the artistic license of the director to make better entertainment.

[EvilNed]

You are correct. But as for your assertion its hard to take ninjas seriously in the film....It's a comic book movie with a storyline trying to base the setting to more realistic and modern times. It's like saying Star Wars and Star Trek films are hard to take seriously because you can here noise in space during the battles. Science fact that since there is no air in space and its a total vacuum there can't be any sound made. A comic book movie is no reason to just put silly and ridiculous things into it. It totally breaks the immersion of the film. Ugh.

[Tullaryx]

A comic book movie is no reason to just put silly and ridiculous things into it. It totally breaks the immersion of the film. Ugh. I think you miss the point of what an escapist film is about. I mean if you have something against ninjas in films then fine, but to say it ruined a film because of it is abit like nitpicking. I didn't like that Katie Holmes character was pretty much your typical damsel-in-distress throw-in but it didn't ruin the film. It actually made the performances of the other cast members that much greater in comparison.

[EvilNed]

I think you miss the point of what an escapist film is about. I mean if you have something against ninjas in films then fine, but to say it ruined a film because of it is abit like nitpicking. I didn't like that Katie Holmes character was pretty much your typical damsel-in-distress throw-in but it didn't ruin the film. It actually made the performances of the other cast members that much greater in comparison. It breaks the immersion, to me that's a serious problem with a film. A film, to me, should deliver an atmospheric and entertaining experience.

[Hawkboy]

That's why the notion of secret ninja societies with straight swords (ninja-to, look it up) is just stupid. Yet a guy running around in a bat suit is okay?

[EvilNed]

Yet a guy running around in a bat suit is okay? Never said it was. Did you read my first reply to this topic? (and I dont see what Romeros satire has to do with this)

[Hawkboy]

Never said it was. Did you read my first reply to this topic? (and I dont see what Romeros satire has to do with this) Yes I did and your point still doesn't really hold water. Again this movie was not a historical account of Ninjas, so in a world were people can fly, and guys dress up as a Bat to fight crime, it's not really a stretch to accept this secret Ninja society does exist in the DC universe. To think its stupid is to not understand the real world Vs. the film world. (The Romero quote was a wrong cut and paste now fixed!)

[EvilNed]

My point holds water as long as it's my opinion? As I've said before, a film that features ninjas and takes itself seriously? Silly. That film, to me, doesn't hold water.

[p2501]

ahh and now the nitpicking begins. i you don;t like ninjas that's fine. but singling it out a primary reason for disliking the movie is somewhat inane. your ok, with the implausable microwave weaponry, and a 4- 6 ton vehicle driving on rooftops. but the ninjas man, the ninjas are what killed the movie for you? it just sounds silly. Yes I did and your point still doesn't really hold water. Again this movie was not a historical account of Ninjas, so in a world were people can fly, and guys dress up as a Bat to fight crime, it's not really a stretch to accept this secret Ninja society does exist in the DC universe. To think its stupid is to not understand the real world Vs. the film world. agreed, i'm not understanding why this stuck in his craw so much.

[bassman]

My point holds water as long as it's my opinion? As I've said before, a film that features ninjas and takes itself seriously? Silly. That film, to me, doesn't hold water. So what about "The Matrix"? They trained themselves all those ninja styles of fighting by plugging it into the back of their heads.....but I'm sure you still enjoyed the movie. There's no such thing as a 100% accurate film, man. That's why they're entertainment. Just like the question of why the dead are returning to life in Romero's films.....it's never explained, but do you need it to be in order to enjoy the film?