TWD 3x16 "Welcome to the Tombs" episode discussion...**SPOILERS WITHIN**

[AcesandEights]

Not a good episode, per se, but not really bad. It's nice to see some things that might push the story forward, and a bit worrying to see where some narrative may have to be wasted (Team Nursing Home?). Again, nothing that can't be rectified or used to the advantage of storytelling, if the writers can pull it off. My concern at the moment lies with Minion. Tell me about it, been worried about this guy for years

[Legion2213]

I understand about concerns of "The Walking OAP's", but it does mean they can send stronger forces out from the prison in the future, I'm sure a few of the olds can be taught to wield a rifle and defend the home while the stronger group goes out foraging/on missions. Food may be a problem though...I hope they looted the fuck out of Woodbury for weapons, ammo, medical supplies and other essential goodies. That big military truck will be handy in the future as well, if a smaller scout group finds a really good stash, the truck can be sent there and really loaded up.

[AcesandEights]

I understand about concerns of "The Walking OAP's", but it does mean they can send stronger forces out from the prison in the future, I'm sure a few of the olds can be taught to wield a rifle and defend the home while the stronger group goes out foraging/on missions. Food may be a problem though...I hope they looted the fuck out of Woodbury for weapons, ammo, medical supplies and other essential goodies. That big military truck will be handy in the future as well, if a smaller scout group finds a really good stash, the truck can be sent there and really loaded up. Well, to be clear, I'm not at all concerned about the refugees from a fantasy survivalist or autistic number crunching angle. I see it as a possible stumbling block for the writers...they have had some questionable moments in choosing what to focus on and the overall pacing throughout the history of the show. Maybe a new 'show runner' will provide some more structure from the outset of season 4.

[Legion2213]

Well, to be clear, I'm not at all concerned about the refugees from a fantasy survivalist or autistic number crunching angle. I see it as a possible stumbling block for the writers...they have had some questionable moments in choosing what to focus on and the overall pacing throughout the history of the show. Maybe a new 'show runner' will provide some more structure from the outset of season 4. Fair comment mate, I suspect (hope) that most of them will be treated like the background crew in Star Trek and the like, just folks in the background who get an occasional bit to do/say...apart from the woman that survived the governors massacre (Karen), she had a few bits to say this season as a Woodbury-ite, I suspect she will get a bit of focus next season as well...speaking of which, was it her son that Carl nailed? That will probably cause a few problems down the line. Edit: She's pretty damn hot actually, the more screen time the better

[facestabber]

Not a good episode, per se, but not really bad. It's nice to see some things that might push the story forward, and a bit worrying to see where some narrative may have to be wasted (Team Nursing Home?). Again, nothing that can't be rectified or used to the advantage of storytelling, if the writers can pull it off. Tell me about it, been worried about this guy for years Haha Classic Well Minion you will be happy to note that I was rather moved by Andrea's last moments. Especially with Michonne and Andrea's joke at Rick about "knowing how the safety works". And Rick commenting about "their" group as her group as well. It really was a respectable way to end her character. Very honorable that she didnt want anyone else to carry the burden of doing the deed. I extremely miss Dale, and Lori and am sure I will feel the same of Andrea. Kind of disappointed that Daryl and her didnt share more personal goodbye. TO MINION: I am guilty of letting my expectations based off of season two finale interfere. The episode wasnt bad at all. In fact it had several great moments. Minion you were dead right about Dale's comments about losing their humanity. Many people hated Dale but I absolutely agreed with what he said. Live for something or die for nothing(Rambo, John J.) I would choose to survive the Zombie apoc but not at the expense of my character and humanity. May that cause my death? Yep but thats what I would chose. Thats just what I stand for. I know many may disagree with that and thats fine. Carls new badass attitude may allow him to live forever but what will differentiate him from the Gov? To answer your earlier question, yes I would have rescued the Woodbury folks. I recognize the strain and hardship it will add but I couldnt live with myself for leaving children and elderly defenseless. Its worth the fight.

[Ragnarr]

My take on the season 3 cap; Andrea cares TOO much for others feeeeeellllllliiiiings, even to the point that I'd expect her to ask "How did I taste Milton? Too blonde? Not enought blonde??" (lame) The prison battle has to be the first battle I've seen that matches any episode of The A Team. Thousands of rounds being fired, only Carl's bean gun finding a target. OKay okay, no prob... at least the Gov will get munched any second.... oh f'ing hell.

[rightwing401]

I personally hated how this season ended. Once the final credits had run their course, I stared dumbfounded at the screen and literally yelled at my tv "What the f%ck did I just watch!" I haven't felt this let down since I first walked out of the theatre after watching Land of the Dead, wondering to myself how this could have happened. After all of that tension building, the back and forth between the governor and Rick about how "This is going down to the last man". What do I get? A few smoke bombs, some blaring of a riot alarm, shooting a few bullets over the head, and BAM-the big prison battle's over. Did any of the writers of this episode actually read the freaking comic of the prison battle? Where was the long drawn out war between the much more numerous and heavily armed (but far less experienced) forces of Woodbury against the smaller and less armed (but far more battle hardened) defenders of the prison. I honest to god feel like the writers sat down in colabration for the season 3 finale and said. "Hey, we ended season 1 with them barely escaping from the CDC with the explosion of a fuel air bomb, and their fates were in serious jepoardy. We ended season 2 with them barely escaping from the farm against a massive swarm of zombies and their fate again left in question. So how can we up the season 3 ending?" "I know, we'll have the Governor gun down his own troops without there being a real battle for the prison, and Rick and company will take the Woodbury survivors in and they'll all be pals now. But we'll still have the Governor running around out there with his lackies Martinez and the unnamed black man who never speaks for conflict in season 4." "Hot damn! Now that's a hell of a way to out do the endings for seaons 1 and 2!" If I haven't been an avid fan of the comic, and had been salivating at the mouth for what I read on paper to be transformed into the screen, I guess this could have been a decent ending to the third season, but as someone who waited a full year to watch the battle for the prison play out, I was horribly disappointed.

[AcesandEights]

It is odd that Andrea's exit somewhat dovetails with a thought I had this weekend that Carol is becoming more Andrea than the TVAndrea ever was. At least with regards to Andrea up through the prison story arc. (Non-spoiler) thoughts from fellow readers of the comic?

[Publius]

Especially with Michonne and Andrea's joke at Rick about "knowing how the safety works". Yeah. The safety on a revolver? What a (surely unintentionally) hilarious way of highlighting how Andrea wasn't a fraction as smart as she thought she was.

[AcesandEights]

Fair comment mate, I suspect (hope) that most of them will be treated like the background crew in Star Trek and the like, just folks in the background who get an occasional bit to do/say...apart from the woman that survived the governors massacre (Karen), she had a few bits to say this season as a Woodbury-ite, I suspect she will get a bit of focus next season as well...speaking of which, was it her son that Carl nailed? That will probably cause a few problems down the line. Edit: She's pretty damn hot actually, the more screen time the better Yeah, she is attractive in a very nice, real way--I like! As far as new characters, well, I agree they definitely need some new blood. Should be interesting who and what comes out of the "population transfer."

[Moon Knight]

After giving it some serious thought I came to the conclusion that I really dug this episode overall. Some cool moments throughout, including: The episode opening with the closeup of The Governor's eye to mirror 3x1. In "Seed", the episode opens with one of the walkers eye's before revealing the monster behind it. You could say that The Governor is no different; from one type of monster to another. I loved the bit when Hershel left the paragraph from the bible highlighted for all to see haha Carl is pretty much taking the advice that Morgan gave him back in 3x12. "Never be sorry." And finally, like someone mentioned above, The bit between Rick and Andrea before her death was great. Michonne included.

[JonOfTheShred]

The whole thing was just strange if you ask me. It's like everyone turned into these big soft bleeding hearts except Carl. Like it was a Walking Dead Easter Special. I'm surprised they didn't try to invite the woodbury forces in for a baked ham and some deviled eggs. Walking Dead Easter Special, that would be awesome! Michonne, being this hard edged warrior, suspicious of everyone and everything, just completely understands why Rick tried to hand her over to the Gov, and she holds no hard feelings. Daryl, his heart is just warmed like butter over merle dying, and has no suspicions toward anyone for anything. (We musta missed the scene where CSI shows up and does a detailed analysis of what exactly happened during Merle's battle, and explains his motivations and thought process, and shows the iPhone video of the entire battle from all perspectives.) Valid points. I think Michonne has been heading for this direction since Clear, really. She might not have even fully believed Merle when he told her Rick was gonna hand her over to the Governor. And the type of person Michonne is, she probably UNDERSTOOD why he had to consider such a terrible thing. Hell, she might have even admired him for his callousness in the situation to a degree, considering how she operates in a similar fashion. As for Daryl, I agree, we didn't really have any time to watch him mourn or grieve, besides the end of last week. But he knew exactly what happened to Merle - he's not stupid. He is by far one of the smartest characters on the show, even if it's only "street smarts" he always seems to be a step ahead of everyone else when it comes to logic and reasoning. I bet Daryl knew the second he saw Michonne alone, what had happened. The whole scene of carnage Merle left behind was an even stronger indication of what happened a few hours earlier. I don't think it would have been logical for Daryl to blame the group, but if he becomes more introverted in Season 4 I wouldn't be entirely surprised. I'm surprised they didn't have a wedding ceremony for Glen and Maggie, then an easter egg hunt afterward. With the specters of Shane, Lori, Andrea, and Merle looking on with affectionate smiles, and Rick seeing them and staring off with a similar smile, while everyone else breaks out into song as the end credits roll. That would be awesome! They should have done that for April Fools, and then aired the real finale next week. You got Glen and Maggie up on the catwalk firing at the feet of the attackers while screaming "get out of here". Yeah, that's an appropriate response to a group of blood thirsty thugs showing up with the intentions of slaughtering everyone inside. The Gov slaughters his own people, but doesn't manage to even wound a single person at the prison after showing up with a huge arsenal? C'mon?? I agree with you, Glen and Maggie should've been shooting to kill. I get the impression they noticed women and children amongst the soldiers, and decided to opt out of the 'Killing Spree' to broadcast to the citizens themselves their true nature - not blood-thirsty killers, but people trying to survive. Having said that, Maggie and Glen STILL should have attempted to take out some of the more obvious henchmen types, like the unnamed black dude or Martinez or even Allen. They should have been aiming for the Governor if you ask me, but clearly the writers have more in store for the Governor. He only just now has gone crazy to the point of the comics. And the reason Gov Gov didn't kill anyone in the prison raid is because they were hidden away. If they had snipers stationed in the guard towers, then they WOULD have killed people. It's not like their attack was completely fruitless - they fucked up Prisons guard towers. And they even cleared out a bunch of walkers for them. What happened? Did Herschel hold such a touching bible study for everyone that they had this huge change of heart and decided that killing was totally wrong, even in defense of their own lives? I read it more as a sarcastic, snarky insult than anything. And I fully realize Hershel didn't intend it that way, but it was too funny to regard it as anything other than something Michonne could swivel her head say "Uh uh, no he didn't!" to. So they crafted a plan of non-lethal force in response, that just happened to work out perfectly? And then they set out to "End this" and chase down the retreating forces of woodbury. What was their plan there? To use harsh words and pass out bibles with meaningfully highlighted passages? I'm glad some of you enjoyed it. But I'm just bewildered at what exactly it was that you guys enjoyed? It's starting to seem like some folks are just trying way too hard to like it, just because you feel lucky to have a zombie based TV show. I thought the Governor wiping out his entire army was brilliant. I relished in the Milton / Andrea double death. I thought the prison assault was written in an opposite way as to what anyone would expect, and I respect that. I feel like the episode was a bit too short - if they had 20 minutes of more stuff it would've worked better. In particular, the assault on the prison did feel a bit rushed. And I would have liked to know where the Governor was off to. I don't want a rehash of the comic in the show. I like the changes. If I want the story of the comic, I'll go read the comics. As it stands, I've enjoyed every minute of the TV show. But maybe that's just because I've toked copious amounts of cannabis before every episode.

[babomb]

http://bloody-disgusting.com/news/32...ew-showrunner/ You guys seen this yet? Andrew Lincoln resigns from TWD for creative differences with Scott Gimple.

[JonOfTheShred]

http://bloody-disgusting.com/news/32...ew-showrunner/ You guys seen this yet? Andrew Lincoln resigns from TWD for creative differences with Scott Gimple. I heard about that! They recast Rick already, too - Christopher Walken is taking over for him. Frank*ly, I'm looking forward to Season 4 of the Walken Dead. *Darabont

[krisvds]

The best I can say about the season finale is that it wasn't the worst episode in the series and that it was, at times, pretty entertaining. At times it felt pretty dumb too. True, the prison assault played against expectations. I was expecting something a bit less sloppy. Like so many scenes, it must have looked pretty sweet on paper but played out on the screen it felt stupid. The 'trap' didn't look like a trap at all and felt really awkward. The troops fleeing the prison and hardly firing back, ... Again, we are not very far removed from flat out satire here. The Governor gunning down his army... These guys were armed to the teeth and not one of them fires back? Really dug the Milton/Andrea scenes though. they saved the episode for me. At last we get some real suspense, some real emotion. Andrea deserved so much better that what the writers came up with this season, but her death at least was one of the best so far. A well written 'death trap' and one that i hadn't seen before in the genre. I also like where they are going with Carl. Setting up epic discussions about which approach is best to survival in this world/retaining one's humanity echoes the best of the Shane vs Rick moments. The prison sure is getting crowded ... May be a chance for the writers to put in a certain storyline from the comics that involved the inmates ... At least there is enough cannon fodder, zombie chow there for a governor vindication down the line.