Justice League (film)

[MinionZombie]

IGN dug it - 8/10. Seems like everything has a lot more room to breathe, better characterisation and motivation etc.

[Neil]

The 4:3 format made me think I had a hardware/TV issue for a while...

[MinionZombie]

The 4:3 format made me think I had a hardware/TV issue for a while... It's the one thing I don't like about the Snyder Cut ... I don't see any justification for the 4:3 ratio for this movie whatsoever. Nonetheless, I was able to tune it out for the most part. As for the movie itself - it absolutely shits all over Joss Whedon's utter balls up of a cobbled together, compromised mess. I recognised a few scenes that Whedon carried over into his version, but I was just skim-reading an article about the differences which reminded me of some of the crap that Whedon injected into the movie, or how his scenes hamfistedly attempted to re-write things in order to cram it all into 2 hours. The inherent flaw with Justice League still remains - that key characters like Aquaman, The Flash, and Cyborg had all not had stand alone movies prior to this team up flick - so the movie still needs to do an awful lot of legwork. However, Snyder's cut finally makes that work, especially for Cyborg and The Flash, whose characterisations and back stories work so much better than before. It was a dumb idea of Warner Bros. to insist on a 2 hour running time, and yes, a 4 hour theatrical movie was never gonna fly, but come on - the theatrical cut was fatally flawed by trying to shove so much trimmed-down stuff into 2 measily hours. Simply, it didn't feel epic at all - but Snyder's cut really does feel epic. You get a much better sense of the grand scale that Steppenwolf is working on, for instance, and the assembling of the Justice League itself feels much more grandiose and something that is worked for and even involves sacrifice. Still, it's a shame that, seemingly, this is the end of the road for this particular story - there's clearly a whole tale still to tell, unfinished business as it were, but it's unlikely that we'll get it followed up - but Warner Bros. should smarten up and try and have a go at having Snyder finish his Justice League epic to at least tidy up various loose ends and hanging threads of potential, especially with another Aquaman on the way as well as the Flash movie. I wonder if positive critical and audience reactions might encourage them to change their minds? Mind you - if they did, would the likes of Affleck return? I rather like his version of a matured and gruffer Batman, the grimly optimistic leader that we see in the Snyder cut in far better detail. So, yeah, put simply, the Snyder Cut absolutely clobbers Whedon's bugger up and shows what was supposed to happen - and not a single dodgy upper lip in sight.

[Neil]

It's the one thing I don't like about the Snyder Cut ... I don't see any justification for the 4:3 ratio for this movie whatsoever. Nonetheless, I was able to tune it out for the most part. As for the movie itself - it absolutely shits all over Joss Whedon's utter balls up of a cobbled together, compromised mess. I recognised a few scenes that Whedon carried over into his version, but I was just skim-reading an article about the differences which reminded me of some of the crap that Whedon injected into the movie, or how his scenes hamfistedly attempted to re-write things in order to cram it all into 2 hours. The inherent flaw with Justice League still remains - that key characters like Aquaman, The Flash, and Cyborg had all not had stand alone movies prior to this team up flick - so the movie still needs to do an awful lot of legwork. However, Snyder's cut finally makes that work, especially for Cyborg and The Flash, whose characterisations and back stories work so much better than before. It was a dumb idea of Warner Bros. to insist on a 2 hour running time, and yes, a 4 hour theatrical movie was never gonna fly, but come on - the theatrical cut was fatally flawed by trying to shove so much trimmed-down stuff into 2 measily hours. Simply, it didn't feel epic at all - but Snyder's cut really does feel epic. You get a much better sense of the grand scale that Steppenwolf is working on, for instance, and the assembling of the Justice League itself feels much more grandiose and something that is worked for and even involves sacrifice. Still, it's a shame that, seemingly, this is the end of the road for this particular story - there's clearly a whole tale still to tell, unfinished business as it were, but it's unlikely that we'll get it followed up - but Warner Bros. should smarten up and try and have a go at having Snyder finish his Justice League epic to at least tidy up various loose ends and hanging threads of potential, especially with another Aquaman on the way as well as the Flash movie. I wonder if positive critical and audience reactions might encourage them to change their minds? Mind you - if they did, would the likes of Affleck return? I rather like his version of a matured and gruffer Batman, the grimly optimistic leader that we see in the Snyder cut in far better detail. So, yeah, put simply, the Snyder Cut absolutely clobbers Whedon's bugger up and shows what was supposed to happen - and not a single dodgy upper lip in sight. This four hour cut will be my first experience with the film Makes you wonder if they should have had two films say, three months apart?

[MinionZombie]

This four hour cut will be my first experience with the film Makes you wonder if they should have had two films say, three months apart? Having seen the movie - nope - it's better as one part. It wouldn't have had the right pacing to be hacked into two parts, it just isn't designed that way. I watched it in three sittings (two mini doses covered the first hour earlier yesterday, then I bashed out the remainder last night). Folks who pissed and moaned about BvS will probably find more fault with Justice League (regardless of the cut), but I really quite enjoyed BvS (in its longer and superior 3 hour Director's Cut). So yeah, I really quite dug the Snyder Cut of JL and, I mean, wow, it really makes Whedon look like an idiot. To be fair, he was stepping into a bad situation with the pressures of an impossible 2 hour time limit for the whole movie, but his changes were all ... ... not good. Seems like he's quite the arsehole to work with, too. So Justice League didn't help Whedon one iota. Anyway, the movie itself - it's dedicated to Snyder's daughter Autumn (who committed suicide during its original production), and the credits feature a striking cover of "Hallelujah" (Autumn's favourite song, I recall reading). You can certainly pick up on a considerable emotional weight that runs behind this film, one which is quite well reflected with Martha and Lois' grieving of Clark. That additional personal investment, having arrived through a terrible tragedy, has undoubtedly elevated this new version of the movie.

[shootemindehead]

The 4:3 format made me think I had a hardware/TV issue for a while... Why in the name christ was it released in that ratio?

[bassman]

The aspect ratio is because of it’s intended original release for IMAX theaters. Of course that’s lost on home screens, so that’s why there is a title card saying it’s to “retain Snyder’s original vision”. There’s also been talk of a black and white version coming down the pike, which is probably the one thing Warner Brothers wouldn’t allow for the initial HBOMax release. As MZ said, this film stomps all over Whedon’s patch job. That being said, it still has its issues. Like BvS, there are certain scenes that work beautifully, then there are also some head scratchers. One of my biggest issues was that almost everything in the Epilogue chapter was filmed recently and tacked onto the end of the flick like a credits blooper reel. While I understand the urge to get Batfleck and Leto’s Joker together at least one time in the snyderverse, which could now be over, it just wreaks of fan service and stands out as having been filmed recently. Almost every shot is a face close up to avoid the obvious green screen void the actors were in. But at least the Leto Joker wasn’t a Juggalo anymore, I guess? The introduction of another key League Member is also very forced. Now here’s the question of the day: will the snyderverse continue? Normally I would say absolutely not, but with this Snyder cut resulting in an epic steaming event that’s getting better reviews....will WB get Snyder back? We’ll be getting into the multiverse soon with The Flash, so theoretically Snyder’s story could continue while the main DC films go into another direction.

[Neil]

I watched it in three sittings (two mini doses covered the first hour earlier yesterday, then I bashed out the remainder last night). I love watching long movies like that. The LOTR extended version(s) I will watch in say hr long spells over a good couple of weeks...

[MinionZombie]

The CGI looked good - except when it comes to physics - so the textures and whatnot generally all looked pretty good (except for the odd shot here or there, such as one low angle shot of Wonder Woman doing a backwards flip where her face/head looked rather weird), but yeah, the physics were still an issue. Oftentimes there's a lack of weight (e.g. Steppenwolf would weigh an awful lot, just look at the size of that bastard, but the way he moves or interacts with the world feels like it's lacking that weight), and many jumps or landings also look 'off'. It's not a huge deal, but sometimes those brief moments will just look dodgy because the characters' sense of momentum and weight doesn't feel at all real. Naturally, anyone who spat on BvS will find plenty of things they hate ... but I dug it. I love watching long movies like that. The LOTR extended version(s) I will watch in say hr long spells over a good couple of weeks... Eh? That's a bit too drawn out, don't you think?

[shootemindehead]

The aspect ratio is because of it’s intended original release for IMAX theaters. Of course that’s lost on home screens, so that’s why there is a title card saying it’s to “retain Snyder’s original vision”. There’s also been talk of a black and white version coming down the pike, which is probably the one thing Warner Brothers wouldn’t allow for the initial HBOMax release. It wasn't shot on IMAX cameras though. As far as I know there isn't a single piece of footage that wasn't shot on 35mm film and would have to be blown up anyway for projection. So that excuse rings a little hollow. Plus, looking at Snyder's justification last night, I see that his "reason" is that superheroes spend more time upright than horizonal, i.e. flying. Well, doesn't everyone? The reasoning for 1.33:1 is just so poor for a film of this type. It's a silly comic book superhero movie, not an intimate drama requiring multiple facial close ups, which is the only thing that that AP does better than 1.85 or 2.35 and even then it's a poor justification. It merely comes across as pretentious twaddle on behalf of Snyder and I invoke the P word here because I think it fits perfectly. There is zero reason to use such an uncomfortable AP for this movie, when 1.85:1 would have suited it better. A film like this gains absolutely nothing from being played out in a box and the fact that the bulk of its life was always going to be as a home release, irrespective of COVID, meant that a release as close to 16:9 would have been a far more sensible option. It's a remarkable decision for all the wrong reasons. As for a B+W version...LOL.

[bassman]

I understand the frustration now that it’s a streaming release only, but he of course originally set out for a theatrical release and he preferred the full-screen IMAX on BvS, so he was going to do it for Justice League. It doesn’t necessarily have to be shot on IMAX(I believe Avengers Endgame is the only full-iMAX film thus far, due to the difficulties associated with the massive cameras and limited shot length), it would just prevent the screen from changing back and forth from 2.35 to 4:3 I agree that it probably should have been adjusted once this was scheduled for streaming only, but he does have his reasoning behind it, at least. Much like the violence and unnecessary language, I imagine he wanted to do it his own way once WB brought him back. If your TV allows it, using the zoom feature will display it at full screen and the images seem to be framed in such a way for a home video release. I tried it this way yesterday for a few scenes and it seemed to work fine, everything was framed perfectly in 16x9. It’s basically just extra information on top and bottom for those expected iMAX releases. But yeah, I get that it’s weird for a streaming only release.

[MinionZombie]

I wonder why they didn't attempt a bit more of the 'Sin City' way of filming for the Batman and Joker scene - shoot the two actors separately to allow for schedules and social distancing, give them eyelines that are coordinated between the two separate shots, then stitch them together digitally. In Sin City you had various scenes - dialogue scenes - between actors who never actually worked together on-set.

[Neil]

Eh? That's a bit too drawn out, don't you think? I think I've watched the LOTR extended cuts about 3-4 times now... Love them. As I said, typically watching them 1-2hrs at a time, over a good week or two

[shootemindehead]

I understand the frustration now that it’s a streaming release only, but he of course originally set out for a theatrical release and he preferred the full-screen IMAX on BvS, so he was going to do it for Justice League. It doesn’t necessarily have to be shot on IMAX(I believe Avengers Endgame is the only full-iMAX film thus far, due to the difficulties associated with the massive cameras and limited shot length), it would just prevent the screen from changing back and forth from 2.35 to 4:3 I agree that it probably should have been adjusted once this was scheduled for streaming only, but he does have his reasoning behind it, at least. Much like the violence and unnecessary language, I imagine he wanted to do it his own way once WB brought him back. If your TV allows it, using the zoom feature will display it at full screen and the images seem to be framed in such a way for a home video release. I tried it this way yesterday for a few scenes and it seemed to work fine, everything was framed perfectly in 16x9. It’s basically just extra information on top and bottom for those expected iMAX releases. But yeah, I get that it’s weird for a streaming only release. It'll be a travesty for purists I'm sure, but I'll probably end up doing that and zooming into 1.78 if the 1:33 becomes too much of an eyesore. AFAIR, most of the footage will be suited to that ratio anyway. With regards to IMAX, it's still a bizarre thing to shoot for, considering that there are only about 1500 IMAX screens in the entire world. And a lot of those aren't actually IMAX screens at all. But I am unsure whether this was ever going to get a theatrical release in any case, irrespective of COVID. It just strikes me as a real baloney decision all round and I would suspect that the Blu will have a "widescreen" version upon release. In any way, for prep ,I rewatched both 'Man of Steel' and 'Batman vs Superman' last night and my opinion of them hasn't changed, despite the fact that I could barely recall anything of them from before apart from my overall reaction which was that they are average, ok, superhero movies. Neither worthy of the outrageous praise or the meltdowns that occurred in some quarters. They're certainly flawed, but not boring, and in a number of ways I prefer Snyder's super serious approach than the MCU quip like nothing matters shtick. The gods amongst men angle works well enough, even though the christ thing got a little too on the nose at times in 'Man of Steel' and 'Batman vs Superman' is a rather messy affair no matter what version it's in. I think I will end up breaking this thing into chapters though. 4 hours seems a bit much. Although I did just do 5 last night.

[bassman]

^ the film itself is divided into six or so chapters, so you could watch a chapter or two at a time. That was my original intent, maybe split it in half, but it pulled me in more than I expected, so I rode it out. - - - Updated - - - I wonder why they didn't attempt a bit more of the 'Sin City' way of filming for the Batman and Joker scene - shoot the two actors separately to allow for schedules and social distancing, give them eyelines that are coordinated between the two separate shots, then stitch them together digitally. In Sin City you had various scenes - dialogue scenes - between actors who never actually worked together on-set. I’m so torn on this scene. It’s obviously a new addition and done on the cheap, so it has it’s issues, but I love the idea behind it. It’s also great to see Leto get another chance without the bling, and Affleck friggin roars as the bat. I’m excited we get to see more of him in The Flash, should it ever make it to production. Speaking of Affleck....the epilogue scene on the yacht. It was originally meant to directly set up Affleck’s solo Batman flick that was later replaced by Matt Reeves’ idea. So, was this restored just to keep the original presentation intact, or is there a possibility that Affleck will still get another shot? Although the movies have divided reactions, most people seem to dig the Batfleck.