Gory horrible history...

[AcesandEights]

Not only is it horrible to read, but I watched the entire leaked video. I am glad local policed worked them over. I have read and been told the Ukrainian police are quite brutal. Yeah, apparently they worked over one of the survivors of the attacks too, the first survivor I think who was able to give a description. I can't imagine having seen a friend murdered, fought and run to escape and finally report the incident only to then get tuned up by the constabulary.

[Neil]

Yeah, apparently they worked over one of the survivors of the attacks too, the first survivor I think who was able to give a description. I can't imagine having seen a friend murdered, fought and run to escape and finally report the incident only to then get tuned up by the constabulary. Sorry, can you clarify that? Don't quite follow?

[AcesandEights]

Sorry, can you clarify that? Don't quite follow? One of the breaks in the case came when they had an eyewitness report of the 2 kids doing the actual killing. That eyewitness report came from a teen who escaped the two killers, unfortunately the witness' friend was not so lucky and was murdered by the two killers. This escaped witness was then assumed, by the Ukrainian police, to be the murderer of his friend and beaten by these authorities to get a confession. Eventually it became clear to the authorities that the kid they'd been beating to elicit a confession from was just an innocent survivor and was telling them the truth.

[SymphonicX]

Not only is it horrible to read, but I watched the entire leaked video. I am glad local policed worked them over. I have read and been told the Ukrainian police are quite brutal. I saw the video online - but before clicking it I read the caption...it said "Don't watch this unless you want to remember it for the rest of your life".... So I didn't watch it. I heard about the eyeball stabbing. Absolutely horrific. Remember Nick Berg? jewish businessman executed in the Middle East....they sent his beheading to news organisations and it was leaked - again I could have watched that...but no way...Not sure I'm cut out to see any more of that nastyness... Same thing with Kenneth Bigley but they didn't leak the video - it was fed to us via a live feed which came accompanied with a message of "if anyone patches this feed up without us expressly permitting it, they will be a case for instant dismissal"... so I thankfully never had to watch that one either...but a colleague of mine did and she described it to me....ugh.

[Neil]

I saw the video online - but before clicking it I read the caption...it said "Don't watch this unless you want to remember it for the rest of your life".... So I didn't watch it. I heard about the eyeball stabbing. Absolutely horrific. I've also never really watched that video. I watched the first few seconds to get an idea of the situation, and then stopped watching. Didn't see any reason to carry on. I don't think I could 'detach' enough to watch it.

[AcesandEights]

I generally don't watch real death videos. Too much like whoring on someone else's death and their families pain and loss.

[Mike70]

I generally don't watch real death videos. Too much like whoring on someone else's death and their families pain and loss. me neither and exactly. i really, really worry about anyone who would find entertainment value in such a thing or even want to watch/hear such things. for example: i think tim treadwell was a total moron and got exactly what he deserved but do i want to hear the tape of him being torn into pieces and eaten alive by a grizzly bear? absolutely not.

[MinionZombie]

I'm similarly minded - I don't want to watch "real death videos" ... I saw one of those beheading videos years ago at uni when a housemate said "hey, come and have a look at this" and it was so quickly into the actual act that I didn't even think to look away. That haunted me for a good while afterwards, but I've mostly forgotten it now (thankfully). It was like back in our sixth form days when that "Rotten" website (or whatever it was called) was 'all the rage' with people sending links saying, similarly, "hey, have a look at this" ... I still think about one I saw that turned me off that sort of shit immediately (someone was electrocuted in their bath tub when a heater fell in, and it remained on, so it cooked ... or rather, stewed, the body until it was goop aside from the skeleton, the head and one arm that was above the water ... in the description they said they pulled on the arm and it slid away from the rest of the victim ... ... *shivers* ... ... that's haunted me for years and I still remember it). I found it strange when footage of Gaddafi's body was shown - repeatedly - on the news over here. They had a warning beforehand, but it was strange to see very clear images of this despicable human being (now dead body) getting hurled about with that slack 'death face' on him. That was all a bit too creepy for me.

[Neil]

While not prolific, Ian Brady and Myra Hindley were nasty pieces of work, again killing children. I think it's the fact these two people could work togethor in tormenting and killing children that's so scary! They even recorded some of the children pleading for help - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moors_murders#Victims The victims were buried on the Moors, and I all of the bodies have now been located, except one, Keith Bennett. Hope he's suffering!!! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18690295

[Neil]

How could we have left Vlad (Dracula) The Impaler out of this thread? - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlad_the_Impaler The idea of impalement is horrific. A not too sharp pole (too sharp would mean a quicker death), greased to allow it to 'get in' and then inserted (typically through the rectum) resulting in a slow, agonising death, with plenty of noise, blood and 'odour'... The fact he would cast people to this fate without the slightest second thought, and seemingly even take delight in their pain, is surely a clear sign of his madness. Even children were not safe! Impalement was Dracula's preferred method of torture and execution. Impalement was and is one of the most gruesome ways of dying imaginable. Dracula usually had a horse attached to each of the victim's legs an a sharpened stake was gradually forced into the body. The end of the stake was usually oiled and care was taken that the stake not be too sharp; else the victim might die too rapidly from shock. Normally the stake was inserted into the body through the buttocks and was often forced through the body until it emerged from the mouth. However, there were many instances where victims were impaled through other bodily orifices or through the abdomen or chest. Infants were sometimes impaled on the stake forced through their mother's chests. The records indicate that victims were sometimes impaled so that they hung upside down on the stake. Death by impalement was slow and painful. Victims sometimes endured for hours or days. Dracula often had the stakes arranged in various geometric patterns. The most common pattern was a ring of concentric circles in the outskirts of a city that was his target. The height of the spear indicated the rank of the victim. The decaying corpses were often left up for months. It was once reported that an invading Turkish army turned back in fright when it encountered thousands of rotting corpses impaled on the banks of the Danube. In 1461 Mohammed II, the conqueror of Constantinople, a man not noted for his squeamishness, returned to Constantinople after being sickened by the sight of twenty thousand impaled corpses outside of Dracula's capital of Tirgoviste. Impalement was Dracula's favorite but by no means his only method of torture. The list of tortures employed by this cruel prince reads like an inventory of Hell's tools: nails in heads, cutting off of limbs, blinding, strangulation, burning, cutting off of noses and ears, mutilation of sexual organs (especially in the case of women), scalping, skinning, exposure to the elements or to wild animals and boiling alive. http://www.weird-encyclopedia.com/vlad-dracula.php http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlad_the_Impaler

[wayzim]

But also understand that in many parts of Romania, Vlad Tepes is a National Hero because of his war against the Ottoman Empire, and his grisly yet effective administration. Also, many scholars wonder if the worst stories had perhaps been started by his political enemies ( both foreign and domestic ) especially German and Russian sources. Ever since the mid seventies, when as a kid I first got hold of the book 'In Search of Dracula. ', I confess I was hooked on the complexity of this ruler. The torture he'd suffered under the Turks ( who held he and his younger brother Radu to keep the father in line - that didn't quite work out ) reveals impalement as an example of using your enemies methods against them. Additionally, with both his older brother and the father decapitated by rivals within their own province, Vlad had little reason to be humane himself. The moment Vlad Dracula ( son of the dragon ) came into power, he held a feast for the murderers of his dad. His asking the lords how many rulers they'd lived through, was pure genius in identifying those responsible. He then executed the oldest among them, using their families as slave labor to build his primary fortress, high in the mountains. Ok, I'll stop now - LOL If only so I can go reread 'Dracula, Prince of Many Faces. ' ( 1989, compiled by the same guys (Radu R. Florescu and Raymond McNally ) who'd first made him famous worldwide with 'In Search of ... ' ) Wayne Z ' There was a legend of a spring, situated in a remote region of Wallachia, by which sat a golden cup that thirsty travellers could use to drink the cool mountain waters. And when a curious pilgrim asked why no one thought to steal this treasure, the villagers would say that it remained by decree of Vlad, the prince, on penalty of death. And to this day, not even the boldest thief dared to take that cup. '

[Neil]

^^ That is a problem - ie: How much was propaganda against him, and how many of theses evil acts was he really guilty of!