Apocalypse like riots in London, Birmingham and Leeds

[Exatreides]

We in America, those of us with our eyes and ears open, know all about the benefit culture. Why is gun violence so prevalent in our society? Why is our violent crime so high when compared to other 1st world nations? Why are we the only 1st world nation with the death penalty? The answers to all of those questions go back to what we term the entitlement culture. Gun culture is prevalent in America for various reasons. However I'm sure being raised in a culture that has no problem showing multiple murders on TV but freaks out when a nipple slips out has something to do with it. Your argument would have some weight if other "entitlement cultures" didn't spend grossly more on their poor then America did, yet have significantly reduced amounts of violence. http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezr...l_spending.png However as you can see the United States Spends significantly less then both Sweeden and Switzerland in Social spending. However, on average per year the US has a firearm related death rate of 15.22 (out of 100,000) While Sweden has 2.36, and the Swiss have 6.2. Both of these nations; as the pictures show, have a much higher social spending program then the US. So if your "theory" of the entitlement culture was to blame for this. the Swedes and the Swiss would be slaughtering each other day and night. However since this simply IS NOT happening. Well I think you can put that together. Oh and Japan is a first world nation and has a death penalty also. So you're wrong on that account I live outside Detroit now. I get to deal with these entitled "people" every day. You'd think that someone on public assistance would drive an older, not-quite-as-nice-car as me, or be a bit less picky about what they eat. Not so. Very nice putting "people" in quotes, as if your socioeconomic situation in life some how makes you a better person then people who were oft born into the situation . Poor people are constantly bombarded by materialistic imagery for wealth. So combined with the pretty shitty schools in the city of Detroit, the continued worsening economic viability of the region and you have a group of people who while not able to be wealthy, would much rather "appear" to be wealthy. Since the appearance of wealth is what our society demands. While this video is several years old. It shows a bunch of black people bragging about how much money they have. Not necessarily how they made it, but simply that they have it. The money makes them "hip". These folks, unlike the rioters in the UK don't have access to an education system that could provide them job skills or the chance to go to higher education. However, they must have these shiny things simply because that's what society is telling them to have. I guess the only thing we have going for us is the fact that these "people" are concentrated in urban-sprawl areas, so when something like the LA Riots start, they just trash their own neighborhoods. These are not very industrious people over here. They're overweight, lazy f*cks who, for the most part, will send "dey chillens" out to do a little wealth redistribution in the form of TVs, video game systems, and, of course, shoes and beer. Again with the "These people." Well what area's are they suppose to trash? As you mentioned they often have nice cars. Should they instead drive to the rich area and trash them? Not very industrious? what a vague generalization. More often then not the poor are the most industrious as they simply have no choice. Turning to selling drugs and other non traditional ways of making a living doesn't make one not industrious, it simply means you are not willing, and oft not able to find a job that can provide the same money. however, in terms of surviving they are vary industrious.(especially in an area like Detroit) I'm not condoning them selling drugs, I'm just saying that was a very poor choice of words on your part. "Overyweight lazy f*cks" --- Have you ever tried eating and being poor? Nearly everything is full of fat and starches. A family can either get two little ceasers pizza's for $10 and feed the family, or spend much more and risk not having the gas money to drive to work the next day. When a person is hungry, truly and utterly starving, they will spend what little money they have to stop this, and the poor often only can buy shitty fatty foods. Poverty+and+Obesity+in+America.jpg (Map of Obesity in the United States) http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_0ybRp_oCk7...vertyCoMap.jpg (Of Poverty in the US, couldn't get that image link to work) Hmmm..Ya think they're related? Stop mistaking America's inner city poor with the people doing the rioting in England, from what I've seen and every one says on here. They're not comparable. These same "people" are smart enough to know not to move their little redistributive aims out of their own shitholes and into common society. Some of us are waiting with bated breath and loaded firearms for an opportunity to do a little "population redistribution" of our own. Once again with the "people" thing...Do I really need to dig into that? So not only do you call them " you people, you fat lazy f*cks," now all the poor live in shitholes too?" If some rich man was saying that about you; with out any understanding of the environment or hardship that you had to overcome in order to just "survive"... Well wouldn't you be a little pissed too? The preceding statement is that of an individual who has worked his whole life to provide taxable income which goes to feed and clothe leeches without an ounce of thanks in their heads. It is also the statement of an individual who deals with these leeches every day, and he possesses no white guilt. Oh, don't forget to add leaches. We get it, you hate the poor. Wait wait wait.... "These people x3." "Spending all their money on cars" "Fat lazy f*cks" "leeches" "Detroit" and most importantly "I posses no white guilt." Well, not only was your post highly miss informed and full of right wing dogma, but quite possibly racist. This post brought to you by a life long member of the lower middle class who has paid taxes since he could work, a serving combat medic in the Army Reserves, and one who deals with these "leeches" whenever I have the opportunity to help.

[SRP76]

So is this bullshit still going on, or what? After what, 5 days? Any rioters should be about worn out from it by now.

[Arcades057]

Exatreides, tl;dr. No point in reading what I know to be your usual equivocating on this subject.

[Exatreides]

Exatreides, tl;dr. No point in reading what I know to be your usual equivocating on this subject. Cool story bro.

[SRP76]

I don't care about the poor or their problems. I'll tell you straight out. I'm half-assed poor myself, but you don't hear me bitching, moaning, and asking for handouts. And what I really laugh at is the whole "no opportunity" bullshit. Sorry, no. I grew up without a pot to piss in, in the same shithole tenements, eating the same government-issue peanut butter and cheese, going to the same fucking public schools. Gee, I managed to learn while there. I managed to get off the tit and provide for myself. I managed to move into a decent neighborhood in my adult life. And guess what? I never took any shortcuts. THAT'S what dope-pushing and home invasions are - shortcuts. Not "no choice", or inventive. They are the shortcuts of people too lazy or impatient to do things the right way. The difference is, I decided long ago that I didn't want to endure ghetto living at its finest my whole fucking life. And you know what? It doesn't take a million dollars a year to get off the shitheap. Barely over minimum wage will do it for you. That, and staying out of jail and bullshit activity like that which hampers your OWN progress. Not someone else hampering it. Not the rich. Not anyone but self. But for some reason, millions of people REFUSE to hold themselves accountable, and improve their station in life. Instead, they blame people they perceive as being "oppressors" just because they have more material wealth. Um, maybe they worked for it and deserve it? The United States isn't Somalia. EVERYONE here has the opportunity to make something of themselves. People should stop acting like fucking it up yourself through dumbassed decisions is somehow "unfair".

[Danny]

I don't care about the poor or their problems. I'll tell you straight out. I'm half-assed poor myself, but you don't hear me bitching, moaning, and asking for handouts. And what I really laugh at is the whole "no opportunity" bullshit. Sorry, no. I grew up without a pot to piss in, in the same shithole tenements, eating the same government-issue peanut butter and cheese, going to the same fucking public schools. Gee, I managed to learn while there. I managed to get off the tit and provide for myself. I managed to move into a decent neighborhood in my adult life. And guess what? I never took any shortcuts. THAT'S what dope-pushing and home invasions are - shortcuts. Not "no choice", or inventive. They are the shortcuts of people too lazy or impatient to do things the right way. The difference is, I decided long ago that I didn't want to endure ghetto living at its finest my whole fucking life. And you know what? It doesn't take a million dollars a year to get off the shitheap. Barely over minimum wage will do it for you. That, and staying out of jail and bullshit activity like that which hampers your OWN progress. Not someone else hampering it. Not the rich. Not anyone but self. But for some reason, millions of people REFUSE to hold themselves accountable, and improve their station in life. Instead, they blame people they perceive as being "oppressors" just because they have more material wealth. Um, maybe they worked for it and deserve it? The United States isn't Somalia. EVERYONE here has the opportunity to make something of themselves. People should stop acting like fucking it up yourself through dumbassed decisions is somehow "unfair". to be honest i dont think wealth is the problem here, i grew up in a very rough estate with just my mom who held down 3 jobs to barely pay to feed and cloth me and my brother and that didnt stop me getting jobs and going through college and university. It wasnt even some 'poor kid trying to prove himself' bullshit. i did it because i wanted to. Trouble is, regardless of rich or poor, the 1st word countries of the world are becoming increasingly anti-intellectiusim focus'ed. i mean everyones heard the bill hicks joke where he is ridiculed for reading in public. We circle jerk everything and make wiping your ass as equal an achievement as getting a phd and if you show any semblance of intelligence, ingenuity or drive you are like a freak to these people. Instead people view education as, not something to aspire to gain, but as something equal to 'spoon in your mouth'' comments and if you try and work hard or get into education you are seen in either regard as scum who thinks they are better than the 'yoof' and 'good ole boys' because you have the audacity to make them look bad and get a better quality of life and their sheer greed that comes from a life of being raised to leech AND to be told everything is an equal achievement means they ask why are you getting things that they in their minds feel they equally deserve. its bullshit but in america and england its so prevalanet. its chavs in stolen tracksuits or bros in poped collars and a six pack in the passenger seat of their car that look at people desperate to rise above their poor starts in life by working hard as freaks who are making them lookbad intentionally and therefore you are the scum for doing so. THAT needs to change before anything else. change it so wanting to learn and better yourself is no longer seen as "something faggots do because they think they are better than you"

[Tricky]

So is this bullshit still going on, or what? After what, 5 days? Any rioters should be about worn out from it by now. No for the time being its all gone quiet, its pissing down with rain all over the UK so I'm guessing the little darlings don't want to get wet, plus the police have got organised & have swamped the areas where all the trouble has been so for now there's relative calm. I doubt we've seen the last of the trouble though, give it a few weeks when the police presence has died down & I reckon a few of them might kick off again having got a taste for it. To our friends over the pond, please don't assume this is the poor oppressed underclass rising up against unfair treatment and poverty, its not, its more a case of delinquents, criminals, plastic gangsta wannabes, chavs & opportunist thieves taking advantage of a situation & using it to go on a mindless rampage both for fun & because they see themselves as untouchable hardcases.

[Exatreides]

As I stated in my post, I don't think that it's whats going on in England, and comparing it to the UK isn't right which is why I got on Arc for it I don't care about the poor or their problems. I'll tell you straight out. I'm half-assed poor myself, but you don't hear me bitching, moaning, and asking for handouts. And what I really laugh at is the whole "no opportunity" bullshit. Sorry, no. I grew up without a pot to piss in, in the same shithole tenements, eating the same government-issue peanut butter and cheese, going to the same fucking public schools. Gee, I managed to learn while there. I managed to get off the tit and provide for myself. I managed to move into a decent neighborhood in my adult life. And guess what? I never took any shortcuts. THAT'S what dope-pushing and home invasions are - shortcuts. Not "no choice", or inventive. They are the shortcuts of people too lazy or impatient to do things the right way. Their are whole fields in sociology about this field. Please note that I'm not talking about being "half assed poor" or suffering from American "Relative poverty". I'm talking about people who have a simple struggle to survive on day to day means. Inner city schools in nations around the country are falling to pieces, schools and class rooms are very full and supplies are limited. Detroit nearly had to introduce a policy of 60 students per classroom, but managed to avoid it with other budget cuts. However the threat still looms The education system pushes test scores and test scores with out actually teaching them. I went to school under "No child left behind." and we spent weeks if not months just preparing for things we would know would be on the test. Now if your in a classroom with 35-40 other students, you don't get any books for the subject because the school wasn't deemed as "succeeding" enough to get further government funds, you have no interest in taking the Validation tests, and are only thinking about your next meal and where your going to sleep the next day. While YOU may have been able to do just fine, some people can't cope, and instead decide to make do something else. Don't judge a whole group of people based on your own unique circumstances. You weren't everywhere, you didn't experience everything that people in situations did, and frankly statistically you're wrong. Shitty schools lead to uneducated people who will do what it takes to survive. The difference is, I decided long ago that I didn't want to endure ghetto living at its finest my whole fucking life. And you know what? It doesn't take a million dollars a year to get off the shitheap. Barely over minimum wage will do it for you. That, and staying out of jail and bullshit activity like that which hampers your OWN progress. Not someone else hampering it. Not the rich. Not anyone but self. But for some reason, millions of people REFUSE to hold themselves accountable, and improve their station in life. Instead, they blame people they perceive as being "oppressors" just because they have more material wealth. Um, maybe they worked for it and deserve it? The United States isn't Somalia. EVERYONE here has the opportunity to make something of themselves. People should stop acting like fucking it up yourself through dumbassed decisions is somehow "unfair". Good, I'm glad for your unique situation and that you managed to overcome strife. However your own experience doesn't reflect those that grew up under the poverty line. Those born into poverty often stay in poverty. Actually the gap between the rich and the poor is the highest it's been in over 30 years http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...t=va&aid=21284 Somalia is a great example of a libertarian paradise where the Government existence doesn't exist and everyone has a chance to "be all they can be". What stable haven of liberty that nation is... Compared to the oppressive unhappy evil socialist country of Denmark http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/5224306.stm (Denmark happiest nation on Earth)

[Publius]

The problem is with that, what will they do with them once they've cut off the benefits or evicted them etc? Bet y'all are wishing you hadn't let Australia go now, eh? -- -------- Post added at 08:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:18 PM ---------- Somalia is a great example of a libertarian paradise where the Government existence doesn't exist and everyone has a chance to "be all they can be". What stable haven of liberty that nation is... Compared to the oppressive unhappy evil socialist country of Denmark http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/5224306.stm (Denmark happiest nation on Earth) Somalia's problems are largely due to the degree to which it is NOT libertarian (i.e., subject to the exercise of arbitrary power by warlords), combined with the legacy of decades of totalitarian socialist rule under the Barre regime. That being said, Somalia has actually done pretty well under statelessness compared to its less-libertarian neighbors. Per capita GDP is higher than Eritrea or Ethiopia, and its telecommunications and airline services are among the best in Africa (in the rest of Africa these industries are typically tightly government-controlled).

[AfterMovieDiner]

Trouble is, regardless of rich or poor, the 1st word countries of the world are becoming increasingly anti-intellectiusim focus'ed. i mean everyones heard the bill hicks joke where he is ridiculed for reading in public. We circle jerk everything and make wiping your ass as equal an achievement as getting a phd and if you show any semblance of intelligence, ingenuity or drive you are like a freak to these people. Instead people view education as, not something to aspire to gain, but as something equal to 'spoon in your mouth'' comments and if you try and work hard or get into education you are seen in either regard as scum who thinks they are better than the 'yoof' and 'good ole boys' because you have the audacity to make them look bad and get a better quality of life and their sheer greed that comes from a life of being raised to leech AND to be told everything is an equal achievement means they ask why are you getting things that they in their minds feel they equally deserve.[/I] I couldn't agree more Danny. Intelligence and education have become something suspicious, something rich people do, something elite, something to sneer at and look down upon. It's a bit crazy. We aspire either to do nothing and have things handed to us or for some fleeting get rich quick scheme like 15 minute celebrity on some Reality TV station. The working classes used to be a proud, diverse, exciting and community orientated people. Now they are represented by these marauding, knuckle draggers. We need to put stuff back on TV, in magazines and on the net that celebrates intelligence, eloquence, manners, sophistication and class as things to aspire to and achieve. Not as things only obtainable to the wealthy or privileged but available for all, actually at no cost. Nobody is going to listen to politicians anymore, they are tainted with the stink of corruption, bribery, weak willed knee buckling and idiocy, the church becomes less and less relevant, not that it was ever truly useful, we don't want Britain to become a police state and so it IS up to the media. If we can't change the useless and, in most cases, bone idol benefit taking or absentee parents and teachers should not have to handle absolutely every part of a child's development, we need to just get the message out there that intelligence and class is what you want, not flat screen tvs, tracksuits, drugs, guns etc. The media has to act responsibly, I see no other alternative. Get rid of reality Television and lowest common denominator SHIT and put something good on, anything that is actually written, acted and directed by creative, passionate individuals, not committees of greasy, tight jean wearing, shit spewers like the Simon Cowell's of this world. Bill Hicks said it years ago and now it's coming to pass. The survival of the fittest will not be braun in the future, it will and HAS to be brains...

[Danny]

Exactly. quite so.

[Neil]

I hope those girls will be getting a knock on their door from the police sometime soon - being that they were drinking looted wine (I wonder if they were underage to boot). Courts are operating 24 hours a day in some places, and the cops are using info on suspects (CCTV and intel from the public) to track them down and arrest the bastards. It wasn't just bloody kids either, one example was a primary school teacher! I wonder what he stole, because I wonder if it was really worth getting a criminal record and losing your job - and indeed, being that he's a teacher, ruining his prospects of ever teaching again. A petition has been transferred to parliament (after getting 100,000 signatures) saying that benefits should be stripped from people who have rioted - I'd have to agree - what's more, their existing possessions should be confiscated as a fine in addition to receiving a criminal record and whatever convictions they get. What the looters will get is probably sentenced to a day in prison, which will be written off due to them already having spent night/day in cells waiting trial. So in effect, they walk out of court, job done... Would love to hear otherwise... -- -------- Post added at 01:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:48 AM ---------- ...and of course now we have a murder enquiry... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14500869

[shootemindehead]

I'd rather have her than any of the other pocket lining hand wringing incompetant champagne socialist arseholes we've had running the country for the past 20 years... There is much of a difference Tricky. Your whole political system needs tearing down and re-establishing completely. -- -------- Post added at 05:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:11 PM ---------- I couldn't agree more Danny. Intelligence and education have become something suspicious, something rich people do, something elite, something to sneer at and look down upon. That's because it's becoming that way more and more. We are slipping back into a world where the well off will have access to high education standards and the poor to average with have to lump it. Another, very real, problem is that, in many 1st world Nations, there isn't enough work being created for people who cannot aspire to the lofty heights of a University Degree or Masters...and even then that's no guarantee of a job or career. In other words, a lot of people view education as a waste of time, as there's little reward at the end of it. Now, of course, I know that education can be it's own reward in and of itself. However, a lot of people won't see it that way. Here in Ireland, working for a living is a joke and we have a rather well educated society in general. I understand perfectly well why people "opt out". There just isn't the employment situation in place to provide meaningful work for a lot of people and with that sort of environment, people will tune out. Decent work = Money = Access to better education = Better living standards for society It's a simple equation. During the ugh..."Celtic Tiger" (I hate that phrase), Ireland had near full employment and shock horror...people took jobs (even people who never had work before) College enrolment went up too. People who had never considered going to college, suddenly had the option opened up to them. Of course, like in most economic situations in Ireland, it was a false economy as it relied heavily on outside factors. In other words indigenous employment was almost completely neglected. Thus, when the inevitable downturn came, all of those nice jobs when overseas to places like India or China and with the further neutering of Ireland's economy caused by blind Capitalist greed and the failing of the bank "system", we now have 1/2 a million people unemployed again and to be honest, I wouldn't blame those people if they rioted tomorrow. In the England situation, it would also be a mistake to lump everybody into the same "Dole scumbag" category as it doesn't appear to be the case. On the news and that's all I have to go on, they said that some of the arrested people were holding down jobs. One guy was a teacher! In situations like this, it's all too easy to fall back on clichés, but the reality is that many people, not just those "benefits culture" people (who are an extreme minority) are really fed up with where Britain is heading. They are not happy at all with it's direction (or the recent past) and I'm sure that many a person took to the streets with those frustrations in mind. That's not to say, however, that all of those who rioted were of that mindset. I have no doubt that there were many an opportunist out simply to wreck and cause havoc for their own simple minded amusement and as the week (and lack of police response) went on, no doubt they were joined by others of that kind. This is nothing new though. I'm old enough to remember many a riot in Britain, including the various "Brixton riots", "Poll Tax riots" and "Toxteth riots". Oldham and Manchester were the scene of terrible rioting a few years ago. There's nothing happening here that hasn't happened before.

[Neil]

Yeh, seems they've tracked down one of the scum! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14516112

[Mr. Clean]

That's such a shitty thing to do...just terrible