TWD 8x08 "How It's Gotta Be" episode discussion... **SPOILERS*

[beat_truck]

I've ALWAYS thought it would be interesting to see the zombie apocalypse in the winter time. I don't know why it has almost never been done.

[JDP]

I have to agree. The smallest of tweaks can fix scenes like that too. On the other end, how many of Rick’s people could Negan have killed by now and didn’t? In my mind, and the way it is written, honestly, Negan comes across as the good guy while Rick and the others kill on sight. But that's because Negan is more interested in exploiting people for his own benefit. He plainly said so in the episode where Rick & company first meet Negan face to face. So Negan is not really a "good guy" at all. He is just about as "good" as a slave-trader/owner! Those guys also were not interested in killing people. And not because of humanitarian reasons, mind you, but because it was bad for "business". Dead people cannot be sold and cannot work. Rick & company are certainly the "good guys". They never exploited anyone, they are interested in trading with other groups, and the only time they kill anyone is in self-defense.

[Moon Knight]

But that's because Negan is more interested in exploiting people for his own benefit. He plainly said so in the episode where Rick & company first meet Negan face to face. So Negan is not really a "good guy" at all. He is just about as "good" as a slave-trader/owner! Those guys also were not interested in killing people. And not because of humanitarian reasons, mind you, but because it was bad for "business". Dead people cannot be sold and cannot work. Rick & company are certainly the "good guys". They never exploited anyone, they are interested in trading with other groups, and the only time they kill anyone is in self-defense. I’m not saying the roles are litteraly reversed, I’m just saying that’s how it’s kinda portrayed. Negan even said their lookouts weren’t dead but simply knocked out. Negan is definitely a bad guy but there is a method to his madness. I don’t consider him an evil character at all. - - - Updated - - - I've ALWAYS thought it would be interesting to see the zombie apocalypse in the winter time. I don't know why it has almost never been done. The “No Way Out” storyline in the comic took place during a winter storm; a great visual it was. I believe Kirkman himself didn’t realize it rarely snows that bad in Georgia, he hasn’t used winter weather again since. Then again, the story itself is pretty far removed from Georgia now.

[shootemindehead]

I have to agree. The smallest of tweaks can fix scenes like that too. On the other end, how many of Rick’s people could Negan have killed by now and didn’t? In my mind, and the way it is written, honestly, Negan comes across as the good guy while Rick and the others kill on sight. Sure. But doesn't Negan want to keep people alive so he can exploit their labour? It makes a certain sense that he wouldn't be shooting everyone on sight. Also, he's mad and you just don't know what mad will do. EDIT: What JDP said.

[MinionZombie]

Shoot - yes, it's a fair point that I agree with that there are some sloppy scenes where the opportunity is there, but because of the way the scenes have been blocked or choreographed, it stretches credibility. They need to be far more specific in frustrating those attempts for Rick or whoever else - e.g. Rick using the handle of Lucille rather than taking a good swing, it should have been blocked in a different way: either Negan grabs the handle before Rick can even lift it in order to strike, or Rick goes for the full swing but Negan kicks him (in the fun zone, probably) and Rick buckles. Like Moon and many others (myself included) have been saying - just a few small tweaks could cover all of these little gaps. The "just kill Negan already!" thing is partly out of order, though, as there are some members of the audience who have wanted him to be simply gunned down since 7x01 - like, immediately - which would just be moronic, frankly. Good drama doesn't come from giving a happy resolution within five minutes, after all ... but yes, the blocking/choreography of certain key scenes where the opportunity was there need to be fixed from this point forward (they should have been fixed to begin with). So that's another lesson the TWD family can learn - better focus on the blocking/choreography to sell what you're putting out there (in this case it's frustrating all attempts to kill Negan). Indeed, some hints or scenes that gave more of an impression that Negan was not only a good tactician, but a sneaky bastard as well as a top class brawler would have further helped when combined with better blocking and choreography.

[kidgloves]

Some thoughts. What if Carl is immune/the cure and his dad's outburst in the media is a work. If not, does anyone think Chandler has the acting chops to carry the show going forward?

[JDP]

Some thoughts. What if Carl is immune/the cure and his dad's outburst in the media is a work. If not, does anyone think Chandler has the acting chops to carry the show going forward? It would be interesting if he was. We might see a whole new version of the "Eugene quest" (except that this time there would be a real fact backing it up) to find some biologists/virologists/geneticists who might be able to figure out something to stop the zombie plague.

[facestabber]

Some thoughts. What if Carl is immune/the cure and his dad's outburst in the media is a work. If not, does anyone think Chandler has the acting chops to carry the show going forward? I've had that same thought. Thought it would be cool as a way of closing out the show. Now your second question is a valid concern. Chandler seems like a good human being. His acting has improved and this last episode is a testament to that. I don't want to pick on a young adult but I would have concerns about him carrying the show. I just don't think his talent level is there. Or maybe that's just me because I'm not interested in a story without Rick.

[MinionZombie]

Some thoughts. What if Carl is immune/the cure and his dad's outburst in the media is a work. If not, does anyone think Chandler has the acting chops to carry the show going forward? I'm not so sure about that. I'll have to take him at his word (albeit in his usual squirmy, needlessly obtuse 'evading spoilers' manner), but Gimple said on Talking Dead (when they asked about the possibility of Carl being immune) that the bite will play out "as expected" - in other words, death. I would like Carl to be immune in that it'd keep the character on the show, but on the other hand I wouldn't like him to be immune because this whole thing would turn out to be a farce, a dupe, a smart-arse F-U to the audience after an already controversial move. Hence my utterly split opinion on Carl being bitten.

[Neil]

So you're suggesting losing an eye can make you immune? Interesting...

[JDP]

So you're suggesting losing an eye can make you immune? Interesting... No, but what if his immune system somehow was resistant to whatever is it that is causing the zombies? Why should this be impossible? In real life with actual diseases such cases have happened. For example, there are people who are not affected by HIV. And there was no way of telling if Carl was such an analogous example before because up until now he was lucky enough to have avoided a zombie bite.

[MinionZombie]

No, but what if his immune system somehow was resistant to whatever is it that is causing the zombies? Why should this be impossible? In real life with actual diseases such cases have happened. For example, there are people who are not affected by HIV. And there was no way of telling if Carl was such an analogous example before because up until now he was lucky enough to have avoided a zombie bite. I've always felt that TWD should end with the discovery of either someone being immune (naturally, with no real medical facilities, nobody would ever know), or with Rick dying from a severe bite wound to leave Carl as a capable leader, but then it transpires that Rick doesn't resurrect. Either he's immune or the virus is over. But that won't happen with Carl kicking the bucket in the next episode ... I quite doubt they'll pull a psych-out, especially when they caught so much flack for the (ultimately entertaining) Glenn under the dumpster incident.

[facestabber]

I've always felt that TWD should end with the discovery of either someone being immune (naturally, with no real medical facilities, nobody would ever know), or with Rick dying from a severe bite wound to leave Carl as a capable leader, but then it transpires that Rick doesn't resurrect. Either he's immune or the virus is over. But that won't happen with Carl kicking the bucket in the next episode ... I quite doubt they'll pull a psych-out, especially when they caught so much flack for the (ultimately entertaining) Glenn under the dumpster incident. Dumpstergate pissed off alot of people. If they tried another one, there may be riots. I really miss Glenn.

[MinionZombie]

Dumpstergate pissed off alot of people. If they tried another one, there may be riots. I really miss Glenn. The reaction to Glenn getting Lucille'd was interesting - it's as it happens in the comics, and it was brutal there. So they were going almost 100% by-the-letter on that one, and it's not like viewers weren't forewarned that 7x01 was gonna be a tough one. The inclusion of Abraham was a twist on the comics, but by that point the character was already dead (Denise got Abe's death from the comics) so he was on borrowed time. It'd be good if Gimple & Co didn't try to switch things up too much just to try and trick viewers who are familiar with the comics. Yes, we may be expecting certain things, and yes, sometimes it's nice to get a surprise, but it only really works if it's still according to the spirit of the source material and doesn't take people for suckers with cheap tricks or psych-outs. There's already enough change-ups to tweak things, and it's nice to see a more finessed version of what Kirkman originally wrote in certain instances. I ultimately enjoyed the Glenn/dumpster stuff as there were some really cool scenes in there, but I do also remember the amount of flack it got fired at it as well (some of it fairly deserved), especially as the mystery was drawn out over several weeks ... and then we circle back to the issue of too much 'real world time' passing compared to mere hours of 'in-story time', which they really need to move away from come Season 9.

[Neil]

I've always felt that TWD should end with the discovery of either someone being immune (naturally, with no real medical facilities, nobody would ever know). That of course would sort of hark back to Romero's original Day script