TWD 2x04 "Cherokee Rose" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN**

[babomb]

why didnt t dog just hook the geek's ankle with the crow bar and flip him backwards out of the well? I thought they could've just grabbed the thing from the bottom and flipped it out. And it's a farm, there's gotta be an engine winch they coulda rigged above the well. But, then the zombie wouldn't have ripped in half. Which was the point really.

[Ragnarr]

I thought they could've just grabbed the thing from the bottom and flipped it out. And it's a farm, there's gotta be an engine winch they coulda rigged above the well. But, then the zombie wouldn't have ripped in half. Which was the point really. I'm doing my best to suspend logic and/or common sense when it comes to the character's actions in the series. If I don't, I wind up gnawing on my remote while growling something unintelligible.

[Mr. Clean]

I think the well was a lost cause anyways. Bloated zombie in your well = contaminated water....That's my math anyways

[clanglee]

Huh. . .weird that so many people didn't like this episode. . .I enjoyed it quite a bit. Probably because it was so close to the comic plot. And as far as it being a hook up episode?. . .maybe, but hell. . .that happens ALL THE TIME in the comics, so I don't see an issue with it here. Looking foward to the upcoming episodes.

[Wyldwraith]

I think that's one of the sharp divisions in the schools of thought round here, Some are major fans of TWD comic, so appreciate links in the show to what is for them a favorite comic. Others (like myself) have 0% exposure to the comics, and as such view TWD on its merits as we would any other TV show. Me personally, my standard for the quality of an episode is based on 3 elements. Ability to drawn me in/make me care about the results of actions taking place on screen, within comfortable boundaries of my suspension of disbelief (stuff like Dawn '04 runners being an example of something that would exceed what I deem "comfortable"), and how much I enjoy each episode overall. While I can respect that sometimes a writer will be forced to accept a sub-optimal short-term result to set up a high-quality plot arc's foundation/basis in continuity (happens in my own writing all the time), this last episode just didn't pass muster for an overall enjoyable experience for me. Not so self-involved I think my personal feelings about this episode should affect the opinions of others, just expressing my general reactions to it. And yes, Daryl continues to become more interesting. So far as the Lori + pregnancy test though, I saw that one coming awhile back when it became clear neither Shane or Lori were going to confess what had happened between them to Rick in the short term. On one hand, it's a feasible result (we need look no further than Jerry Springer to know this stuff happens quite a bit)...while on the other hand (for me at least) "forcing the issue" by having Lori turn up pregnant due to a short-term sexual interlude (It was something like a month or less since the scene with Shane in Rick's hospital room, so Shane + Lori coulda easily missed her ovulation window that month....if she even HAD ONE. Women under sustained systemic stress suffer from all sorts of irregularities with their more complex half of the reproductive equation.) However, I'm sure one of our female posters could speak with more authority on this subject than I can.

[Thorn]

Yay, Glen! I like the whole build-up in the episode in thinking that Lori's asked for tampons when it turns out - wait for it, it's a pregnancy test! Oh, they got us good on that one in not seeing it coming! With that said, I thought the episode was the weakest this season. That's not to say I didn't enjoy it - but basically nothing happened to help push the plot forward in any way. The well scene was just kinda useless to me other than showing some good zombie make-up and for some great gore ("Guess you won't be using that well again!" - har har!). It seemed that Sophia or another small person (perhaps a midget farmer) had been sleeping in the pantry from the pillow and the sheet - but Daryl, for whatever reason, didn't think it was a good idea to check upstairs? Huh? And if Sophia had been sleeping there you would think she would have had the common sense (even as young as she is) to lock the doors to the house she was in as well - but the doors were wide open. This leads me to believe that someone or a group of people have Sophia - from the scene to next week's episode it wouldn't surprise me at all if that "someone" turned out to be Merle who has Sophia and is keeping her. Nothing else really of interest happened here that I can tell other than Herschel being folksy and everyone dealing with some demons. Of course, all of that is interesting but it was just overall a weak episode in my opinion as nothing really of importance took place. j.p. Merele was my thought as well, he has Sophia and would no allow her to return. HE wouldn't even have to be a jerk about it as a kid she might easily believe he meant well for her as a former member of the group if he spun it right. Then again at this point, without a hand, having survived on his own (possibly having lead a horde of zombies to camp), and having his wee pea brain baked in the sun for a while in Hot-Lanta.... I imagine he likely just went for the brute force threat approach. As for it not turning into a hook up-fest, sadly this is something that happens usually, and in the comics there is a good bit of it. I can understand it too, when you can not control the world around you, and you feel lost and alone you turn to others for comfort and at times having someone there to ground you is just what you need to not feel alone and give you something to keep fighting for... not mention no tv... pleasures of the flesh is a great form of entertainment. As for nothing happening, I disagree. I saw a lot happen as far as character development and setting the table for the feast to come. This was the episode we see there is more to Hersch and his farm than scenic views and child saving. The foreshadowing is obvious to those of us familiar with the comic and it will make sense to the rest of you later. There were 3 subtle moments at least where I was grinning ear to ear because it was like a good book, you turn the page and you are being lead down a path and only bits are shown to you at a time. Either it is or is not missed by the viewer. Or in my case I already know what is coming so it sure is easy to pick up on those subtle bits of foreshadowing. Was it all out action at a break neck speed? Was there gun battles, zombie hordes, and betrayal? No but tv shows can not always be that or they ARE soap operas. Or the A team where you put people in the same impossible scenarios over and over with no mind for development of the characters, relationships, and personalities that truly makes you care about them. Plus... GLENN GETS SOME!!

[krisvds]

Some issues I had with this episode: - after all that fuzz concerning the (ab)use of firearms being to noisy I found the approach of the RV and, especially, Daryl's bike as they rode up to the farm quite, well, noisy. You can hear these guys coming from miles away... - Water shortage? Really? After that creek in the forest and the supplies they stumbled upon in episode 1? - The people in the farm like to have the lights on at night while leaving the drapes open AND having little to no people actually guarding the place? There can be a frightnening shortage of 'dread' in the series. - The love triangle ... predictable and very, very boring. C'mon, this is starting to look like Sawyer, Jack and Kate from Lost. Still looking forward to future episodes though. As a fan of the comic book I cant wait to see how they will tackle the rest of the 'Farm' storyline

[blind2d]

I liked it! What Thorn said. Glenn is cool. Also the Cherokee rose story was neat. I'm really starting to like Daryl a lot. You know character names from Lost, kris? I'm sorry to hear that... Well zed was well fed. Also he looked fantastic. Reminded me of the beginning of Army of Darkness a little bit, y'know, the whole pit thing. How they went about him as a situation was just idiotic... but of course Glenn saved the day... It was a really good episode for him, I must say. I really don't care for bald Shane and that blond bimbo. But you're not really supposed to, are you? The part with Rick being a father was really nice. Especially the hat deal. I can't believe you would fuck in a pharmacy of all places, though. Even if it's the end of the world. Sophia is driving me up the wall. Where the hell is she?! Hm... yes, I quite enjoyed it. Needs more explosions, though. And too many white people. Meh, whatever there though.

[bassman]

- after all that fuzz concerning the (ab)use of firearms being to noisy I found the approach of the RV and, especially, Daryl's bike as they rode up to the farm quite, well, noisy. You can hear these guys coming from miles away... With wide open farm lands, pastures, mountains, and forrests, it would be difficult for anyone(or thing) to determine the exact location of the sound. Much like the Charger's car alarm in the quarry in episode 103. Of course the same could be said about the walkers being able to pinpoint the source of gunfire, but ya know.... - Water shortage? Really? After that creek in the forest and the supplies they stumbled upon in episode 1? Did they say there was a shortage? I believe Maggie says the farm has five or six wells. They were just attempting to pull the bloated walker from the one well just to deal with it and get it out of the way.

[krisvds]

Did they say there was a shortage? I believe Maggie says the farm has five or six wells. They were just attempting to pull the bloated walker from the one well just to deal with it and get it out of the way. You are right. They didn't. Which makes it all the more improbable. If they have no shortage of water why lower one of the most valued team members into that well armed with basically nothing? Makes little sense. At least give the poor guy a knife. @ blind2d : LOL (blushes)

[bassman]

You are right. They didn't. Which makes it all the more improbable. If they have no shortage of water why lower one of the most valued team members into that well armed with basically nothing? Makes little sense. At least give the poor guy a knife. But that's the point. They were trying to avoid getting any(more) of the walker's blood into the water in an attempt to salvage the well. They may have had many more sources of water, but they need to salvage every bit they can for the long run. Of course it all didn't work out, but that was the reason they sent Glenn in to laso his arms and pull him out. As Glenn jokes once he's out, it would've been easier to just shoot him and board up the well, which they eventually did.

[AcesandEights]

Dunno, to the team, Herschel's famr seems fairly untouched and is--for now--a bit of an oasis. I assumed they wanted to help keep it as such, especially since some of them may well be entertaining the idea of spending a good deal of time there. My initial thoughts were very similar to what a lot of people have mentioned: "not worth the risk for only the possibility of salvaging the well," but I can still see going to the trouble of trying to get it out....just not by lowering a person down into the well to do so. I get that it was a dependable source of potable water, but I still think manpower is the new high-demand resource right now and as long as there are other possible sources of water they shouldn't be pissing away lives on maybes.

[krisvds]

But that's the point. They were trying to avoid getting any(more) of the walker's blood into the water in an attempt to salvage the well. They may have had many more sources of water, but they need to salvage every bit they can for the long run. I get that. Still doesn't explain why they wouldn't send him down armed in case he had to defend himself ... You know just in case? The whole scene played out as an excuse to get some zombie-action in an otherwise talky episode. On the other hand: what great make-up by Nicotero! He is the true star of the series IMO. The bloated zombie reminded me of Henrietta, the Evil Dead 2 cellar demon.

[bassman]

Still doesn't explain why they wouldn't send him down armed in case he had to defend himself ... You know just in case? The whole scene played out as an excuse to get some zombie-action in an otherwise talky episode. Why not send him with a weapon? Because it's a TV show and they have to create some sort of tension. I definitely don't disagree with the whole scene being fodder for the zombie gore hounds, though. I could have lived without the scene but as you said, Nicotero of course knocked the effects out of the park.

[Thorn]

I think all in all I would give the show a 7.5. I certainly didn't hate it. I loved the character development, foreshadowing, internal conflict, relationship building, costuming, make up, lighting, and everything else... I just guess it is one of those things where everyone has opinions and expectations. As for where Sophia is, I think it is pretty clear she was living in the cupboard under the stairs Ala harry potter.