TWD 2x11 "Judge, Jury, Executioner" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN**

[thxleo]

They said on Talking Dead that the cow Dale discovers was originally supposed to be one of the group, but they changed it in the eleventh hour. I wonder if that was meant to be T-Dog lying dead but they decided to keep him on after Dale's departure due to Jeff DeMunn demanding out of his contract? It almost appears like that could be the same thing with his obviously very serious wound in 201. Perhaps Darabont had intended for him to go early in this season, but after adjusting/deleting/reshooting due to the scuffle, they've decided to keep him on longer and he has nothing to do with current story? The character that Dale was originally going to discover was Jimmy. Greg's the one that said to change it from Jimmy to one of the cows. I think it was a good decision.

[bassman]

The character that Dale was originally going to be discover was Jimmy. Greg's the one that said to change it from Jimmy to one of the cows. I think it was a good decision. Well hell....Jimmy is just as useless as T-Dog! Has that kid even been around since the barn massacre? I can't recall seeing him since then....

[thxleo]

Well hell....Jimmy is just as useless as T-Dog! Has that kid even been around since the barn massacre? I can't recall seeing him since then.... I'm not sure, I don't think so. When I spoke with Greg last week I mentioned about the T-Dog character not being a factor at all and he didn't say much. I could tell he thought it was a problem, but he said at least he had more to do in the next episode. This goes on Glen Mazzara as far as I'm concerned. By the way, I'm not in this camp that gets bored easily unless there is a zombie showing up every few seconds. I actually enjoy character development and allowing a story to unfold slowly. Greg and I talked about that as well, about some of the complaining from fans and he said Mazzara takes complaints like that to heart, so I hope he doesn't start forcing stuff in an attempt to give in to fans.

[Legion2213]

I'm not sure, I don't think so. When I spoke with Greg last week I mentioned about the T-Dog character not being a factor at all and he didn't say much. I could tell he thought it was a problem, but he said at least he had more to do in the next episode. This goes on Glen Mazzara as far as I'm concerned. By the way, I'm not in this camp that gets bored easily unless there is a zombie showing up every few seconds. I actually enjoy character development and allowing a story to unfold slowly. Greg and I talked about that as well, about some of the complaining from fans and he said Mazzara takes complaints like that to heart, so I hope he doesn't start forcing stuff in an attempt to give in to fans. I'm okay with slow moving stuff...like nBSG, seemed to be loads of drama, but when they cut loose with some space-porn action it was orgasmic...same for TWD, slow start to S2, with only a few encounters, then they reward us with the barn massacre mid season finale. Delayed gratification is the best kind.

[fishfast41]

Maybe after what happened to Dale, they will get smart and not wander around by themselves.

[JDFP]

Here's something to ponder. If Shane had been one holding the gun to Henry Gale... err... Randall's head when Carl was standing at the door and Carl had yelled: "Do it, Shane!" - do you think Shane would have hesitated in the slightest? My first instinct is to say no because he despises Henry Gale... err, I mean Randall. But Carl is basically like a surrogate son to Shane as well. As much as Shane is a gung-ho "get shit done that needs doin' done!" sort of guy, I have to ponder whether he would have hesitated a moment or not. As far as T-Dawg (God, I hate that name) - perhaps he should have an episode centered around him. It could show how he's set up a little camp for himself away from the others with a stash of Shakespeare or something he's reading unbeknownst to everyone else. j.p.

[Legion2213]

Maybe after what happened to Dale, they will get smart and not wander around by themselves. Apart from Daryl...who is just too bad-ass to need any company. (you make a fair point though...it's the downfall of every horror/zombie/slasher media ever made).

[fishfast41]

I agree, slow but sure is the better way for character development. The issue with some characters not being developed is maybe we have too many characters? -- -------- Post added at 05:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:29 PM ---------- yep, legion, I made this point before in another thread awhile back. Given this situation, their security should be wayyyy better. Goes all the way back to the party at the first camp where Amy and Ed were killed. At least now they mostly carry weapons while wandering around alone. lol Seriously,though, our heroes don't act as though they are in an extremely dangerous situation, and this doesn't seem realistic to me.

[bassman]

I'm not in this camp that gets bored easily unless there is a zombie showing up every few seconds. I actually enjoy character development and allowing a story to unfold slowly. Greg and I talked about that as well, about some of the complaining from fans and he said Mazzara takes complaints like that to heart, so I hope he doesn't start forcing stuff in an attempt to give in to fans. Oh, no! I also hope he doesn't take those complaints too seriously. It's a shame that the character development fans seem to be in the minority while the "MOAR zombie blood and gutzzzz" fans seem to have the loudest voice. I'm sure they were really happy with Dave Navarro's presence on Talking Dead a few weeks back....

[AcesandEights]

The show, and actor Jeff DeMunn decided long ago that his character was on his way out.... Why couldn't they just do it soap opera style... "The part of Dale will now be played by...Alan Thicke." Problem solved

[rongravy]

Why couldn't they just do it soap opera style... "The part of Dale will now be played by...Alan Thicke." Problem solved Or they could Two and a Half Men it and throw Ashton in there... Then everyone would want Dale(Ashton) dead.

[Neil]

Enjoyable episode again! The final scene bothered me in two ways:- 1) I dislike ninja zombies just appearing stealth like next to people. Would have made more sense if Dale had been distracted by the cow, bent down to look at it, and the camera panned around to expose the zombie lying/feeding on the ground on the other side? 2) I did think the zombie on Dale needed to go more blood crazy in order to rip into him. It should have gone a little mad/frenzied and frantically clawed at his clothes/belly. At it was, it just seemed to go in like Dale's belly was jelly! Also, it does wind me up how people (eg: Carl) just wonder around as if there's no threat at all. Would you be letting your child be wondering off into woods with zombies in there? Hmmm... RE the poll, really torn between the first two options. I found myself switching between,' no option but to shoot him,' and 'you can't shoot what might just be a misguided boy in a world gone mad!' all of the humans are starting to piss me off. I find myself rooting for the zombies now rather than the humans. F*ck 'em. lol!! -- -------- Post added at 08:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:36 AM ---------- Carl needs to be straightened out. He really is the reason Dale got killed. Yes, and of course Dale himself knows that!

[Thorn]

I find the thread interesting in it's results, I am curious if people think the fact I support killing the kid goes against my normal standpoint on such matters. I am a hold onto your values, and do the right thing kind of a guy but in this case, at least to me the survival of the group overrides that. The kid is a clear threat and can not be trusted for all the reasons detailed above. Leaving him alone 18 miles away is cruel really, he wouldn't make it alone and would be ripped to shreds merciful execution. While we do not know what his crimes are in a lot of cases we do know he runs with a evil element based on what he was willing to confess (and people usually downplay that and their role based on my understanding of psychology), he did try to kill members of "our group", and beyond that he is a horrible actor... just horrible. I hope I am not alone in my assessment of that his delivery, his accent, his reactions, emoting all are amateur level at best. If this kid stays around I am going to be unhappy. Funny too how we see a Benjamin Linus, and a Sayid character appear from lost at the same time

[Neil]

While we do not know what his crimes are in a lot of cases we do know he runs with a evil element based on what he was willing to confess (and people usually downplay that and their role based on my understanding of psychology), he did try to kill members of "our group", and beyond that he is a horrible actor... just horrible. But consider this. He was probably alone when discovered by 'his group'. Indeed they may have even saved him. Given this is it surprising that he'd at least stay with them if only to increase his chances of survival. Yes he fired on 'our group', but in reality all he knew was 'our group' was shooting at (& had killed) some of 'his group'... Not really quite so black and white, and makes killing someone all the more questionable?

[krisvds]

But consider this. He was probably alone when discovered by 'his group'. Indeed they may have even saved him. Given this is it surprising that he'd at least stay with them if only to increase his chances of survival. Yes he fired on 'our group', but in reality all he knew was 'our group' was shooting at (& had killed) some of 'his group'... Not really quite so black and white, and makes killing someone all the more questionable? Exactly. You can't exactly blame the kid for lying either; he was tortured and now almost executed. Dale's question still unanswered; can you kill someone for a crime they might not even commit? Based on what? What if he's telling the truth? If I were in his shoes I'd want to get back at our beloved 'group.' Bunch of cowardly inhumane bastards