TWD 4x03 "Isolation" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN**

[Andy]

Not really becuase the governor and andrea are still somewhat true to their comicbook counterparts. Lets not fall out over this huh? Anyway.. to honest, im really enjoying season 4 so far, ive loved all 3 episodes, its getting my interest back up after it honestly died off a little in season 3.

[facestabber]

I guess it's good that Carol is now sparking this much debate. She has evolved from a background character to a central figure.

[Neil]

I guess it's good that Carol is now sparking this much debate. She has evolved from a background character to a central figure. Indeed... Still think what she did - no matter how well meaning her motives were - was wrong! Can't have folks just killing people off their won volition.

[Trencher]

I am surprised to see how proud some people are over their own hatred of this character or this actress. (Its most often women) instead of being ashamed of it. Carol is one of the best characters on the show she has some things from Carols role in the comic but she also reminds me of Donna. However she is another character altogether and I really like how they take departures from the comic and make things more real. The actor that plays her is great, the way she looks is realistic and cool and the character is also very good. I dont know what it is with the certain elements of the fanbase of this show that turns so venomous against any character who is not a sword wielding battle babe or hardcore survival man. The walking dead show and the comic are not a powerfantasy where the heroes are always hulking hunks who are always right and the world is populated with hot women and loyal sidekicks. Its not a place where people work together in unison and there is only one guy (some kind of communist or republican Christian depending on the authors political views) who are "evil" and try to sabotage the group. It deals with real reactions from plausible personas. I remember Lori getting flak because she wanted Andrea to help out with the cleaning. Well in real life Andrea would have gotten shit from the other women if she did not help out with the cleaning. Even under the zombie apocalypse. Remember people the zombie apocalypse is their whole life now! If Lori was still alive they probably would not have such an horrible quick outbreak. Look the show and comic are good because they are among the few, very very few zombie media that are about regular people and the characters portrayed by the actors take center stage. And all the actors are good! That is the most amazing thing about this show, the actors are actually good and they throw their heart and soul into their performance! It is an amazing thing and people just dont understand how good we have it! We have been on this forum for many many years, and before that there were the old forum and before that we did not have internet. In my country the best zombie movies were not even allowed. I had to read the night of the living dead book and see an occasional semi parody or game. We wandered in the proverbial desert then but we were still zombie fans! As more and more media got available our unending need for zombie movies were the target of many a quick cash in movies and sometimes fans got together and made their own zombie movies and we ate it all up. How many bad zombie movies have you seen? I am willing to bet it was more than a few. I predict that the level of quality movies we were used to is going to be called zombiexploitation in the future. The walking dead is a game changer, even the world war z movie which many people thought were awful had a great cast and effects. The people who worked on that movie took it SERIOUSLY and they actually tried. Finally we live in a time where the genius of the original dead series is respected, but the gore hounds and banal dudebros want everything to be just about tits and ass and blood and gore. The reason I am harping on this is that I have a really real fear that the loud complaints about what characters does wrong is affecting the directing decisions done for the show (and zombie movies in general). Andrea and Merle were written out of the show and Merle were even made into an more heroic character in his last episode. I dont want "cool" characters and fricking rasta kings riding tigers into battle! I want grounded real people! Go watch zombieland, zombie strippers or Planet Terror if you want but dont demand all zombie movies should be like that.

[triste realtà]

This show has provoked some kind of extra dimensional hatred I never knew possible and, in particular, the Carol-thing (who was in the Mist which I hated just as much, maybe more)... I just can't understand this instinct to drop this abomination in lava. It's like feeling something eternally valid, more so than the universe itself. My point is Andy is not alone and he is actually being kind about it.

[Neil]

Let's move on from the "personal attacks" shall we... Some of us find it a little unnecessary. Thanks...

[Trencher]

What I fail to understand is not only why some people have a seething hatred for all women that are not young photo models, but also that they are ignorant enough too feel that such hatred is justified. Just because you like hot chicks does not mean you are allowed to hate everybody else. You know what this attitude remind me of? Efeminate thin men in black turtle necks who works in magazines that prey on women insecurities. Do you know what you would get if all the actors (except one or two) were played by young photo models? If it was even more focused on blood and gore? If the characters did what we as outsiders would think is best? Let me tell you: It would become banal, it would look fake and it would loose that "real everyday people in danger" feel that is the thing that MADE the zombie apocalypse in the first place! The worst thing is that the walking dead show is in danger of becoming such average slock, as the writers are sent to a revolving door and more and more fans are shouting for more blood, guts and sex the show is taking a dip in quality and because it already have built up the fanbase among zombie fans that likes quality the short sighted executives in AMC can promote exploitative elements in the show to attract the dude-bros and it will not show up in the ratings. The comic too have taken a dive in quality as more and more silly characters and sexualized violence. And we zombie fans need to take a long hard look into ourselves and our fan community let our desire for quality acting, writing and directing be heard.

[Legion2213]

"The Passion of the Trencher" Seriously though, you genuinely care about this series and the genre in general. Your post was well expressed. - - - Updated - - - Indeed... Still think what she did - no matter how well meaning her motives were - was wrong! Can't have folks just killing people off their won volition. Agreed. If Carol really did decide to execute two innocent people for "the greater good" she cannot be excused, she simply didn't have the right to do that at all. Could be an explosive few episodes ahead if it transpires that she did do this and the group find out...be interesting to see how it's dealt with, because this kind of thing can't simply be brushed under the carpet or forgotten about.

[Andy]

Well trencher i dont think you read my post or my argument at all, i dont hate all women who are not supermodels. i just hate melissa mcbride and i am not ashamed of that, i am totally justified and righteous in my hatred of this haggered old women who add's nothing to the show and has been a wooden background character up until now. On the flip side, i liked lori even when everyone else was bitching about her and i think she was killed too soon, i would have liked to have seen more done with her and the same with andrea, she had her faults but i could see what she was trying to do (keeping peace between woodbury and the prison) and i was always hoping she would turn around and become the stone cold assassin we have in the comics, i was genuinely shocked when andrea died. I just dont like carol. dont like the character, dont like the actress and im not going to apologise for it. This show has provoked some kind of extra dimensional hatred I never knew possible and, in particular, the Carol-thing (who was in the Mist which I hated just as much, maybe more)... I just can't understand this instinct to drop this abomination in lava. It's like feeling something eternally valid, more so than the universe itself. My point is Andy is not alone and he is actually being kind about it. Brothers in arms, sir.. brothers!

[Trencher]

I just dont like carol. dont like the character, dont like the actress and im not going to apologise for it. Can you explain why? And can you explain why you think its okay?

[Andy]

Can you explain why? And can you explain why you think its okay?   Her looks and her age have everything to do with it.. as a comic follower you should understand what i mean too, carol is supposed to be the second youngest adult in the group after glenn.. shes supposed to be blonde and pretty but totally sheltered from the world in everyway, shes supposed to have married and gave birth to sophia straight out of college and have absolutely no experience of life. That naivety and isolation from the rest of the group is what causes her to go mad and after coming onto both lori and rick, finally drives her to kill herself by hugging a walker. I take offense to the fact that darabont has totally changed that and made her a haggered old woman just so that his friend mcbride can have the part, no other reason and no other character has been changed so drastically or in this manner. Every other character was at least relatable to their comic book counter-part. Worse still, shes not even a good actress and her character is poorly written too. Im angry and im right to be. Like i said, we can agree to disagree but dont try an write off my opinion as wrong. i dont like the character and i dont like the actress. deal with it. I did. on page 4. And "i think its ok" becuase i dont live in north korea and am allowed to form my own opinions

[Moon Knight]

Ok, Andy doesn't like Carol cause her actress is old, ugly, and wooden. We get it. Let's move on.

[kidgloves]

I dunno, I think Melissa McBride's quite attractive. She seems a nice person in real life as well and has done extremely well for herself when you consider that she's a casting agent who occasionally acts. Buuuuuuuuut, yes. Lets move on.

[MinionZombie]

Yeah, moving on, but well said kidgloves.

[krisvds]

i just hate melissa mcbride and i am not ashamed of that, i am totally justified and righteous in my hatred of this haggered old women who add's nothing to the show and has been a wooden background character up until now. How anyone can call hatred for a woman you have never even met in person 'justified and righteous' is beyond my comprehension. Seriously over the top.