TWD 2x13 "Beside The Dying Fire" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN**

[darth los]

Ive been struggling with the whole "Dale's way" thing ever since he stalled the convoy on the highway to "avoid discussions for the greater good of the group". To me his particular way of doing things is self centered, because in his quest for morality he disregards the lives of the very people he travels with. Fake a breakdown - Dale gets his shot at calibration of the group's moral compass but the group is exposed in a place that has been hit at least twice. In pleading for Randall's life he is clearly disregarding facts that the other group is bellicose, heavily armed and have a penchant for a bit of a rape and pillage. I cannot fathom how would one run risk of, for instance, Andrea and Lori having a bit of R&R with Merle and his pals just to preserve principles. Terribly self centered. In that light, after being overrun, having serious casualties and being all kinds of stressed out, Im not wondering that Rick kinda put that whole thing on the back burner. Shane, while he was right about many things was someone I would oppose on the grounds of being the "when you have the hammer every problem looks like a nail" sort of guy where soon enough every single problem would be solved with an execution or two. Let me clarify. I didnt agree with dale's methods either. His father knows best shtick was wearing thin. After all wasn't dale guilty of witholding information vital to the group because he felt he knew best? Let's be clear they are all adults and decisions like that one should be voted on by everyone. No one person has the right to make that call. T dog knows that dale witheld info and for what reasons because dale told him himself. It's funny how they wanted to lynch Rick for doing basically the same thing. Thinking about it, all Rick had to do was tell them, "Yeah Jenner told me that we're all infected and that anyone who dies for whatever reason reanimates. However, Jenner was dead set on killing them all so he might have just told me that so we'd lose hope and agree to just stay there and die. But when i saw Shane turn thats when i knew Jenner was right". End of story. And no, that's not hindsight, I actually thought this as it was happenning.

[Trancelikestate]

Is it possible they'd bring Morgan back without the boy? Sure, but highly unlikely. Perhaps more likely if that is the way it happens in the comics but knowing television writers i find it unlikely.

[rongravy]

Give it up.

[Sammich]

The one thing that jumped out of me was ... why the hell were they driving around at break neck speeds in cars shooting out their windows. I am all for suspension of disbelief but come on... that kind of accuracy can't be had from moving vehicles at night like that. More over Daryl was fine to stop and shoot and pick his shots so would everyone else have been and you could have moved as needed. The thing felt like a wild west Indian and cowboy shoot out but a lot more ridiculous. People go into the fight or flight response when presented with extreme fear. Maggie was borderline hysterical and drove around scared out of her mind, whereas Herschel stood his ground with his 75 round pump shotgun. Daryl can remain calm as he seems to become accustomed to the situation. You have to remember that everyone in the group isn't trained in fire and movement or other military tactics.

[zomtom]

The one thing which bothers me is, if you're living through a zombie apocalypse, why wouldn't you keep emergency supplies in all of the vehicles in case you have to bug out? By now the group has been through alot. You would think they would have learned some lessons and kept extra food, fuel, weapons in all of the vehicles. They knew there was an "armed" group near them and the constant threat of a zombie herd. There's just no reason they should be sitting there all cold and hungry and out of fuel.

[AnxietyDilemma]

I loved when Rick reminded Herschel that he's a man of God and of all people should have faith, and Herschel said something along the lines of "Jesus promised to resurrect the dead, I expected something a little different". Was I the only one that chuckled at that line?

[Gemini]

Great episode, but a few comments. Why did they so heavily fortify the house just to run around like idiots when the zombie horde finally arrived? I found it annoyingly unrealistic that everyone was such expert snipers with the effortless head shots - even from a moving car! Rick killed Shane, and has now become Shane. The speech at the end was Shane 100%.

[Andy]

Great episode, but a few comments. Why did they so heavily fortify the house just to run around like idiots when the zombie horde finally arrived? I found it annoyingly unrealistic that everyone was such expert snipers with the effortless head shots - even from a moving car! Rick killed Shane, and has now become Shane. The speech at the end was Shane 100%. The house was fortified enough to take on a few zombies or even small horde but the sheer number of zombies coming at the the farm would have ripped through the house in minutes, Daryl says something like this too. Agreed with you on the point about the sharpshooting, in last weeks episode it kinda bugged me how carl was able to shoot zombie shane in the head from a good distance when just a week previous he couldnt hit the swamp zombie? Nah... Your last point, rick in that episode (particullarly the speech at the end) was the closest to the rick from the comics we have seen in the TV series so far. Expect more.

[Tricky]

Shooting accurately especially at short or medium range isnt exactly difficult though, I had an air rifle at 11 years old and could hit coke cans and bottles from a fair distance away with no training whatsoever other than how to reload! Any beginner who can point a gun can probably hit something with a fair level of accuracy just by looking down the iron sights and pulling the trigger. Fair enough military style training makes you much quicker and capable, but is that not what Shane was doing when teaching them all to shoot earlier in the season?

[Andy]

Which surely makes it even stranger that carl is unable to shoot the swamp zombie the week before last?

[bassman]

Which surely makes it even stranger that carl is unable to shoot the swamp zombie the week before last? Had Carl shot a walker before that? I could understand being nervous on your first time out. Also, protecting his father from walker Shane would probably have a lot to do with his willingness and accuracy. He has had proper training, but I think the swamp walker just freaked him out because it was first attempted "kill". Unless i'm forgetting a previous kill, anyway...

[rgc2005]

Few people can naturally shoot a firearm. Training and repetition until the movements become gross motor skills requires up to 500 hours of training, dry fire drills and 1000s of rounds downrange under the supervision of trained instructors per individual weapon. I would tend to believe an actual zombie uprising than the Navy SEAL headshot accuracy of Lori from the porch with a double action .38 Chief's Special snub nose. Shooting accurately especially at short or medium range isnt exactly difficult though, I had an air rifle at 11 years old and could hit coke cans and bottles from a fair distance away with no training whatsoever other than how to reload! Any beginner who can point a gun can probably hit something with a fair level of accuracy just by looking down the iron sights and pulling the trigger. Fair enough military style training makes you much quicker and capable, but is that not what Shane was doing when teaching them all to shoot earlier in the season?

[bungi43]

Shooting accurately especially at short or medium range isnt exactly difficult though, I had an air rifle at 11 years old and could hit coke cans and bottles from a fair distance away with no training whatsoever other than how to reload! Any beginner who can point a gun can probably hit something with a fair level of accuracy just by looking down the iron sights and pulling the trigger. Fair enough military style training makes you much quicker and capable, but is that not what Shane was doing when teaching them all to shoot earlier in the season? Police shootout statistics don't agree with you at all here.

[bassman]

Few people can naturally shoot a firearm. Training and repetition until the movements become gross motor skills requires up to 500 hours of training, dry fire drills and 1000s of rounds downrange under the supervision of trained instructors per individual weapon. Yeah, I don't know about those statics you got there. I've barely had any formal training except maybe two hours from a police officer relative and i'm a pretty good shot with handguns, rifles, and shotguns. It's not exactly rocket science.... Besides, at the end of the day it's still just a tv show...

[AcesandEights]

Everything I've ever seen on the subject is shooting accurately =/= shooting accurately under duress. Much less from a vehicle. I had no problem with them taking to vehicles, which is a pretty good idea (so long as they take note to not bash into one another and watch their speed), but the marksmanship was too accurate all around for the episode, generally speaking, and shooting from vehicles in a confused situation should probably have posed more danger to the living than the dead. That said, it's another convention of not just the genre but action sequences on film. I wish they'd have kept it in mind when planning their show, but it's not surprising to see.