TWD 3x15 "This Sorrowful Life" episode discussion...**SPOILERS WITHIN**

[AcesandEights]

Aces - just killing off Daryl for the sake of killing him off (or getting shot of him just because you don't like him ) wouldn't be the way to go at all. Like with Merle, you need a storyline worthy of taking that sort of action - it would have to really mean something So that every death of any major character has to be foreshadowed into the ground and the only people who can be killed off in a surprising manner are underdeveloped types? Sounds lame, predictable and milk-toast safe, to me. No thanks.

[Andy]

So that every death of any major character has to be foreshadowed into the ground and the only people who can be killed off in a surprising manner are underdeveloped types? Sounds lame, predictable and milk-toast safe, to me. No thanks. I Agree with aces, thats not the walking dead way. The philosophy is supposed to be that nobody is "safe".

[MinionZombie]

I Agree with aces, thats not the walking dead way. The philosophy is supposed to be that nobody is "safe". When did I say he was "safe"? What I'm saying is it'd be lame-as-balls for Daryl to just be snuffed out hap-hazardly just as something to do. If Merle had just been capped in the start of 3x09 by The Governor or something, then a whole shit-load of good stuff would have been missed - not-to-mention half of his entire character arc this season. A death has to have meaning and come at the right time for major characters - even for lesser characters - I never said he was "safe", you're just reading what you want to believe I said you lazy so-and-sos (), what I'm saying is, well, just what I said below - his death should come at the appropriate time as part of a far larger arc and storyline, and there's so much more to be done with his character as it is - the time isn't right for such a move yet.

[AcesandEights]

his death should come at the appropriate time as part of a far larger arc and storyline, and there's so much more to be done with his character as it is... No there isn't The only thing that comes to mind for his character after coping with his brother's death (or not, and having it lead to his death, which'd be fine, too), is for Daryl to come out of the closet. Other than that, Daryl's death, sans the overly schmatlzy melodrama, could actually serve to do something important, like once again underline how the characters live in a world that is dangerous in a way other than when it happens to be convenient for the plot.

[Andy]

I understand what your saying but i still disagree, you think his death has to have some meaningful point or be some big story changing event.. we are saying.. why does it? thats not the walking dead way. You've read the comics, you know that if daryl just walked out of prison and was bit straight away with no build up or serious aftermath, it wouldnt be the first time the fans have been slapped in the face

[AcesandEights]

Thats not the walking dead way. I like that, Andy

[MinionZombie]

There's always a reason for something to happen. Axel was shot-down mid-laugh because someone had to die as a result of the attack on Woodbury (incidentally, doing so stopped a whole range of possibilities for that character - in an interview Lew Temple said they were layering in little possibilities, various lies told etc, but they never got a chance to do any of that as he was snuffed out) - there was no heroism or moment afforded to his death (just like some characters in the comic), but Daryl is such a large part of the show it'd be a cheap shot - and frankly, a poorly written one - to just randomly snuff him out. Particularly as Daryl is so keenly aware of his surroundings ... and I think we're well aware of the dangers this world poses ... it's kinda part of the whole point of the show. The "Walking Dead way" is still there - douchebag Ben got in the way of a bullet and dropped like a sack of shit (and then got munched ). I still strongly maintain that just snuffing a major character in a half-assed "oh whoops" click-of-the-fingers kind of way would be lazy, closed-door writing. Merle's demise was so much more satisfying because he had an entire season arc, and particularly in this episode he went through a variety of versions of himself and came to an important realisation (not-to-mention his death providing a helping hand and a crushing blow all at the same time) ... T-Dog's death was sudden, but he went out swinging ... Lori's death was an extremely important event ... Dale's death was a loss of innocence for Carl, and a loss of soul for the group ... Otis' death was sharp and sudden and ghastly, but again it provided a huge wealth of meaning. No right-minded screenwriter would ever kill off a major character with the equivalent of a random ACME anvil dropping on them for no good reason.

[AcesandEights]

No right-minded screenwriter would ever kill off a major character with the equivalent of a random ACME anvil dropping on them for no good reason. Well certainly no (overly)commercial, paint-by-numbers writer would want to disappoint all those Daryl fans There doesn't have to be shedloads of exposition, clumsy foreshadowing and a telling build-up for a character to have a meaningful death, and thinking that there should be is further falling into overly-contrived formulaic TVland. Particularly as Daryl is so keenly aware of his surroundings... Jeez, MZ...I bet you know his favorite color, too!

[Andy]

There's always a reason for something to happen. Axel was shot-down mid-laugh because someone had to die as a result of the attack on Woodbury (incidentally, doing so stopped a whole range of possibilities for that character - in an interview Lew Temple said they were layering in little possibilities, various lies told etc, but they never got a chance to do any of that as he was snuffed out) - there was no heroism or moment afforded to his death (just like some characters in the comic), but Daryl is such a large part of the show it'd be a cheap shot - and frankly, a poorly written one - to just randomly snuff him out. Particularly as Daryl is so keenly aware of his surroundings ... and I think we're well aware of the dangers this world poses ... it's kinda part of the whole point of the show. The "Walking Dead way" is still there - douchebag Ben got in the way of a bullet and dropped like a sack of shit (and then got munched ). I still strongly maintain that just snuffing a major character in a half-assed "oh whoops" click-of-the-fingers kind of way would be lazy, closed-door writing. Merle's demise was so much more satisfying because he had an entire season arc, and particularly in this episode he went through a variety of versions of himself and came to an important realisation (not-to-mention his death providing a helping hand and a crushing blow all at the same time) ... T-Dog's death was sudden, but he went out swinging ... Lori's death was an extremely important event ... Dale's death was a loss of innocence for Carl, and a loss of soul for the group ... Otis' death was sharp and sudden and ghastly, but again it provided a huge wealth of meaning. No right-minded screenwriter would ever kill off a major character with the equivalent of a random ACME anvil dropping on them for no good reason. I Still dont agree, why would it be such bad writing to simply have him die with no major build up? Thats what happens in life, it dosnt matter who you are you could die at any moment and thats the way the source material is written. Dosnt matter how well aware, we all have off moments and let our guard down... especially when we are traumatized becuase oh i dont know... my brother has just died! Now in practice, your probably right they wouldnt kill off a major character without it being some epic part of the story but i would go as far to say that would be lazy writing and turning the walking dead into a typical hollywood TV series. It would be better in my opinion to have people die randomly, it would be more realistic and truer to the source.   did you really see glenn's death coming? really?... i bet you where suprised. There was no major build up, he had been a key player from volume 1 and he was killed out of the blue. What your describing MZ is correct for TV... but frankly its not correct for the walking dead.

[MinionZombie]

It's simply about good writing, and not in the least bit pandering to those freakshows who send death threats to Laurie Holden because her character grazed Daryl with a bullet more than a year ago, and well, see my previous post for my view on quality writing in regards to a potential end for Daryl - and other characters we've seen. And Daryl is keenly aware of his surroundings - this is a dude who is a skilled tracker, hunter, and survivalist - it's a straight-forward reading of one part of the character's modus operandi. Just having him blunder into a set of undead chompers would actually be clumsy, paint-by-numbers writing, as well as totally lazy. It would have to be a scenario that actually made sense. There doesn't have to be shedloads of exposition, clumsy foreshadowing and a telling build-up for a character to have a meaningful death, and thinking that there should be is further falling into overly-contrived formulaic TVland. I don't know what TV show you're watching, but it ain't the same one as what I'm watching. Merle's season arc was handled beautifully. If y'all ain't gonna bother reading what I'm actually writing, then what's the point? *sigh* I'm done with this topic... Onto something else... WTF was up with that plank with a bit of razor wire on it? I know it's supposed to be for bursting tyres, but one of them stuffed into the grass (and not on the ruddy driveway) is going to do piss-all. Did anyone see any other such contraptions in the field? I didn't notice any personally ... seemed a bit pointless, that. If you're going to have traps and obstacles, we need to see something more, not just one random thing.

[Legion2213]

Onto something else... WTF was up with that plank with a bit of razor wire on it? I know it's supposed to be for bursting tyres, but one of them stuffed into the grass (and not on the ruddy driveway) is going to do piss-all. Did anyone see any other such contraptions in the field? I didn't notice any personally ... seemed a bit pointless, that. If you're going to have traps and obstacles, we need to see something more, not just one random thing. Maybe it's to simply show us they are constructing defences (plural)...it just shows a bit of prep, you can read into it that they are making lots of little nasty surprises for the bad guys to stumble into. (Pretty sure there were petrol bombs in view as well)

[MinionZombie]

Maybe it's to simply show us they are constructing defences (plural)...it just shows a bit of prep, you can read into it that they are making lots of little nasty surprises for the bad guys to stumble into. (Pretty sure there were petrol bombs in view as well) Aye I suppose ... it just seemed a little random how it was covered - all that fuss getting the walkers over to the other fence, then yomping over to drop one farty little tyre obstacle. If there were a whole bunch in the shot (I don't recall seeing any others) then that would have been a good teeny weeny tweak there. Petrol Bombs - aye, Glenn was making some in the courtyard.

[darth los]

I noticed it right off! I had to pause the show, go over to the bookcase, get the figure from the shelf, and bring it back to the couch and show her how exact the reference was. Attachment 1225 This one appears when merle is in the car having a drink before he goes quick-scoping After this episode I can see the show is in good hands next season. I loved it. Very emotional and who would have thought Merle's actions would have such an emotional impact. Great stuff. He was pretty badass up until his end too. Bravo. I caught the Dawn reference immediately too! I caught the Dawn reference and excitedly told everyone about it. LOL! Not that anyone was impressed by my picking up on it... Like you gentleman i immediately caught on as well.....Lemme tell you sandrock, I was hopping up and down like dawn of the dead! Dawn of the dead! I had the same reaction to the first episode of the season when in the midst of clearing the prison we see officers in riot gear and i was immediately like, Left for dead 2!!!!!!! But yeah, don't expect mere mortals to get those references. They aren't cool like us. Oh and it's good to see you all again.....

[babomb]

I Still dont agree, why would it be such bad writing to simply have him die with no major build up? Thats what happens in life, it dosnt matter who you are you could die at any moment and thats the way the source material is written. Dosnt matter how well aware, we all have off moments and let our guard down... especially when we are traumatized becuase oh i dont know... my brother has just died! Now in practice, your probably right they wouldnt kill off a major character without it being some epic part of the story but i would go as far to say that would be lazy writing and turning the walking dead into a typical hollywood TV series. It would be better in my opinion to have people die randomly, it would be more realistic and truer to the source.   did you really see glenn's death coming? really?... i bet you where suprised. There was no major build up, he had been a key player from volume 1 and he was killed out of the blue. What your describing MZ is correct for TV... but frankly its not correct for the walking dead. Agree!!!!! Every major character death being a large, overly dramatic and built up event is too soap opera-ish. That's no doubt how things will be for the most part, but i much prefer a true sense of realism over hollywood style dramatics in a show like this. It's overall the basis of my dissatisfaction with the writing of this season. With the season premiere I thought that was the direction we could expect.

[Morto Vivente]

IMO, if the demise of every single major character is preceded by an overly dramatic arc, then the result would be extremely ponderous. But on the other hand, if every death was sudden and relied on the element of surprise to create the drama e.g. the death of T-Dog, then the effect would soon ware off and become pedestrian. Excessive use of shock tactics doesn't have any longevity. IMO, an engaging balance between both approaches would be the right way to go. But it's obviously impossible to meet everybody's expectations. The epic-arc approach is a lot older than Hollywood Cinema by several thousand years. I'm sure you'll agree that it's their misuse of it, and superficial treatment which cheapen's it. When it's done right the result is The Empire Strikes Back,, as opposed to Star Trek V, , or.... I can hardly bring myself to type it; Titanic.