TWD 6x03 "Thank You" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN*

[MinionZombie]

Anyway, MZ's post reminded me of a conversation I had with some friends a couple of weeks ago, does anyone else think Rick has taken "the long way" to the place Shane was in season 2.. Mentally I mean.. Would season 2 Shane and season 5/6 Rick be on the same page? Pretty sure these days Rick would have killed Randal, just saying Shit...today's Rick wouldn't have bothered pulling his ass off the fence! Yeah, at best today's Rick would have shot Randall to put him out of his misery ... but could also just as easily leave him to scream and draw the walkers away - use him as a distraction, like an object almost. However, if Rick had been like this in Season 2 - what would he then be like now in Season 6? Rick's right on the edge at the moment ... had Rick been like this in Season 2, then 1) it would have been a boring arc with not much range or change to it, and 2) he'd probably be an absolute beast of what used to be a man. He'd practically be a monster, quite possibly. I think chunks of the group would have deserted him (some almost did just that for good after the church massacre of 5x03). Some people might have survived that otherwise died ... but the group would have likely fractured, too. Daryl might have left for good with Merle, Glenn and Maggie wouldn't have hung around (and Hershel and Beth would have gone with them), Dale might have been alive but would have certainly left Rick's side forever if he'd taken out Randall (or, if he'd left Randall where he was, Dale would have still left Rick's side - just look at how much he detested Shane in the end). Rick is on the edge, but his journey over the last few seasons - his resistance to just opting for out-and-out brutality - has kept him largely right up to this point, and is his most powerful tool to keep him on the right side of the line (albeit a blurry one that's shifted considerably in this ZA world). Judith's baby food that the wolf had in his pocket. Rick found it and I think he is rightfully concerned. Carl left that kid unattended. An interesting reminder on Talking Dead regarding Aaron and Rick in Season 5 - one of the things Aaron gave Rick was baby food from Alexandria, as a sign that it was a safe place. So that's now totally flipped in his mind - he's thinking his entire family might be dead and that there's nothing left. His plan has failed, he's now doubting every shred of confidence he's had up to this point ... he's in bad shape. As for what he'll do - hide or run - he'll leg it out of the RV and head for Alexandria. I understand where a number of you feel Glenn should be dead. Personally I hope he will survive for a bit longer. Many of us who are attracted to zombies and the apocalypse have a "dark side" to us. Many of the "unwashed masses" who make up the main viewership of TWD don't really fit into this picture. They're not really into zombies. They got caught up in the hype and now they're addicted. If you kill too many of they're favorite characters; they are going to leave in droves. If this were to happen it's only a matter of time before TWD is cancelled. I'm not ready for that. I hope and believe the producers and writers know this as well since it's their jobs on the line. If Glenn survives this mess; I for one will not complain. By the way; I think episode 4 is going to be VERY Morgancentric. Good points. If Glenn does survive - and I've become more convinced of that in the last couple of days - then they're absolutely going to have to show us how it happens in a way that makes sense. It'll be very important. It's certainly not a deal breaker for me - I wouldn't stop watching the show (hey, I'm TWD obsessed!), but unless they really lay out an understandable way for Glenn to survive then it'll be a bit of a bloody cheek. I still maintain though, as I've always done, that TWD gets the vast majority of things right on the show with only a few stumbling moments - the fence climbers in Season 1, the eventual bugger up that was Andrea's arc, the incredibly mixed bag back-half of Season 3 (3x12 and 3x15 were both highlights of the entire series, while 3x14 - the one where Andrea and The Governor play hide and seek in that old factory - was quite possibly the worst episode of TWD and a decided, incongruous, low point). Yeah - we'll be seeing some Morgan flashbacks next week - but the entire episode about Morgan? It's possible, I suppose, but I kind of hope it isn't all Morgan ... if we don't find out what happens to Glenn until 6x05 then it's going to be a right old todger tease! It makes sense to have some of Morgan's past journey at this point though, because we need to see how he got from "Clear" to here. He's had a considerable shift in his outlook on life, and we need to understand it from his perspective. I do hope that - soon - he wises up and realises that evil men can't be trusted and left to their own devices. They will come back to haunt you in this ZA world ... I think it'll be part of his character's journey. It's a key part of writing - for characters to change over the course of the story - and to have opposing points of view and ways of doing things. Rick's almost gone too far, while Morgan hasn't gone far enough. We need a happy middle ground ... "Rorgan" ... "Mork" ... "Ricgan".

[shootemindehead]

Andy. Yes I think Rick and Shane would get along much better in the present. Ricks humanity has slowly slipped away. Shane just downright kicked humanity and feelings to the side. Shane was batshit insane. Rick has reached a point where he's unwilling to take chances that will endanger the group as a whole generally and has come close to the edge, but he still hasn't lost the plot like Shane did.

[MinionZombie]

Shane was batshit insane. Rick has reached a point where he's unwilling to take chances that will endanger the group as a whole generally and has come close to the edge, but he still hasn't lost the plot like Shane did. A big old yupperooni on this one ... ... in other words I agree. ... Someone did a really cool Glenn Rhee tribute video. Thoroughly good.

[shootemindehead]

Unfortunately, we don't see the actual roof of that building, so we don't know if you could somehow access it from the top of the stairwell. However, there is a door, which it is not clear whether it is blocked or not, and there are also two windows, which do not look blocked, one of them at a lower level than the stairs, which means you could attempt to crash through it from the stairs if push comes to shove. They certainly would have had more chances of surviving on those stairs than facing the horde full front like they did. I'm not so sure. To me the door at the top of those stairs looks fairly well blocked and more than likely locked too, meaning that the two lads were stuck on the stairs with all the zebadees coming up towards them. It would only be a matter of time before they succumbed to the sheer mass. I think people are looking at the stairs as some sort of salvation option because the dumpster/fence option ended in disaster, largely because Nicky boy decided to blow his head off. They were stuck, but they could have have shimmied across to the roof from there. The fence at the back of the alley was tall and on top had barbed wire. Glenn and Nicholas must have known what they were heading to a long time before reaching the end of that alley, so it makes little sense that they would allow themselves to be trapped like that. Much better to take your chances with a not very well blocked stairway than up a tall fence with barbed wire on top. The barbed wire is what would have made trying to get to the roof of the blue building very difficult. That stuff is designed to make it difficult for intruders to jump over fences. That barbed/razor wire can be negotiated easily if you're careful. I've done it myself . Plus, with a couple of hundred zombies trundling after you, you'll do it. You bet your life you'd do it. Given the time to decision ratio, Glenn and Nicholas probably made the right decision, or as right as the circumstances allowed. Hopping onto the bin and over the fence made sense, right up until they found out that there were a large number of zombies on the other side of the fence too. By that time, option B (the blocked stairs up to the potentially blocked/locked door) was gone. The problem is that they should have realized this long before they were trapped. They were going down the alley looking for exits, they should have had plenty of time to realize the stairwell was their best choice even before arriving at the end of the alley. They could see the barbed wire fence waiting them at the end. But even after Glenn starts to look for other options after trying the door and the fence, they still would have had time to head for the stairs. Glenn pretty much realizes this is a dead end while Nicholas has not even arrived to the end of the alley, and the zombies are still fairly behind the stairwell. Right then he should have told Nicholas to head for the stairs and start moving the mattress aside. They would not even have to bother moving anything else, behind the mattress there appears to be enough room to squeeze through to the stairs. Ah well, ya know shoulda/woulda/coulda... I still maintain that in stressful situations, people don't have the luxury of making considered choices. Plus, the guys are looking to put as much distance between themselves and the gang'o'ghouls behind them. So jumping the fence looks like the better option than trapping yourself on a small flight of stairs that leads to a (more than likely) locked door. If the scene had ended with Nicholas and Glenn scaling the fence and running off into the sunset, nobody would be mentioning the blocked stairs leading up to the blocked door as an "option" at all. If I was in that situation, I probably would have tried the fence myself, because (frankly) that flight of stairs is a death trap, even if Nicky doesn't whack himself. It is not clear if the entrance to the building is blocked or not (there seems to be a wooden panel on the top of the stairs, but it is not clear if it is really blocking the entrance.) We also see two windows on the building, one of them at a level below the stairs, which do not seem to be blocked. Plus we also don't know if the roof of that building is reachable from the top of the stairs. So there might be 3 possible escape routes from those stairs: door, roof, window. Call me crazy but I would take those 3 chances any day of the week before having to face a zombie horde head-on. It's pretty clear to me that there's a large piece of chipboard covering the door and in that situation, I'd wager that the door behind was locked too. Probably the owner of the building had it locked down when the proverbial hit the fan. The ground door that Glenn tried is locked too. Again, people are only looking at that door, because the choice the lads made ended in disaster. A disaster made by Nicholas, it has to be said. They were trapped, but it wasn't the end.

[JDP]

I'm not so sure. To me the door at the top of those stairs looks fairly well blocked and more than likely locked too, meaning that the two lads were stuck on the stairs with all the zebadees coming up towards them. It would only be a matter of time before they succumbed to the sheer mass. The stairs were not wide enough to allow a large number of zombies coming up at them all at once. So even if some zombies eventually managed to find their way to the stairs (first they need to find a way through the obstacles, and since they have a very low IQ that obviously is going to take them a while to figure out), you could deal with them much safer. Shoot or stab in the head some of them on the stairs and their piling corpses will also make more obstacles for any others finding their way up. They would have had a much better control of the situation on those stairs, even if they could not have found a way out. I think people are looking at the stairs as some sort of salvation option because the dumpster/fence option ended in disaster, largely because Nicky boy decided to blow his head off. They were stuck, but they could have have shimmied across to the roof from there. Nicholas blew his head off because they were screwed. They put themselves in a situation from which there hardly was any way out. On top of a dumpster surrounded by zombies and not near to anything other than a barbed wire fence does not look very hopeful. That barbed/razor wire can be negotiated easily if you're careful. I've done it myself . Plus, with a couple of hundred zombies trundling after you, you'll do it. You bet your life you'd do it. You might also fall down to your death while trying to "negotiate it", specially with hundreds of zombies shaking the fence trying to claw their way up to get you. Also, you would have to jump onto the fence, since the dumpster is not right next to it but nearby. You miscalculate or do not get a firm grip and down you go. And there are no second chances with that zombie mob waiting for you down there. Given the time to decision ratio, Glenn and Nicholas probably made the right decision, or as right as the circumstances allowed. Hopping onto the bin and over the fence made sense, right up until they found out that there were a large number of zombies on the other side of the fence too. By that time, option B (the blocked stairs up to the potentially blocked/locked door) was gone. Climbing on the dumpster was not their original plan but a last resource action. They had no other choice at that point. Ah well, ya know shoulda/woulda/coulda... I still maintain that in stressful situations, people don't have the luxury of making considered choices. Plus, the guys are looking to put as much distance between themselves and the gang'o'ghouls behind them. So jumping the fence looks like the better option than trapping yourself on a small flight of stairs that leads to a (more than likely) locked door. If you have climbed up a fence you already know that it is more difficult than simply climbing up a flight of stairs. Seek the path of least resistance, specially when a mob of zombies is approaching. Plus there's more possibilities to find an escape on those stairs than the door, supposing that it was blocked and locked. If the scene had ended with Nicholas and Glenn scaling the fence and running off into the sunset, nobody would be mentioning the blocked stairs leading up to the blocked door as an "option" at all. If I was in that situation, I probably would have tried the fence myself, because (frankly) that flight of stairs is a death trap, even if Nicky doesn't whack himself. It's pretty clear to me that there's a large piece of chipboard covering the door and in that situation, I'd wager that the door behind was locked too. Probably the owner of the building had it locked down when the proverbial hit the fan. The ground door that Glenn tried is locked too. The ground door is from the next building, not the one with the staircase. Plus it is not clear if the chipboard is really nailed shut or is just covering the entrance. Whoever tried to block that place doesn't look like he invested a lot of time doing it. He just threw a mattress and wooden pallets at the bottom of the stairs. There is no telling what he did upstairs. And the windows don't look covered by anything. You could try to break through the window that is beside and somewhat lower than the stairs. Just pick one of the wooden pallets and start smashing the window, then jump in. Again, people are only looking at that door, because the choice the lads made ended in disaster. A disaster made by Nicholas, it has to be said. They were trapped, but it wasn't the end. Both Nicholas and Glenn are to blame. They did not react in time. And they had plenty of it. Look at how long that alley is. They ran down all the way to the end and passed TWO stairways (yes, look carefully, there are actually two buildings with stairways in that alley) and they did not attempt to go up.

[Trin]

Glenn and Nicholas didn't have to get themselves out of the situation. They only needed to buy time ... maybe a few hours ... for the rest of the group to pull the situation together and realize they were missing. We all know that someone will come looking for them. So climb the stairs and block it, climb the fence and sit on top of it, or just stay standing on the dumpster. Fire the flare off after several hours if no one shows up. So what if the dumpster was padlocked? This is Hollywood... shoot the padlock off and climb inside. ... ... Okay, okay, fine. I didn't notice the padlock and chains. It was obvious that the edges were partially opened and I figure you could make room easily enough, so why not just open one side and jump in? But if you can't get it fully opened it'd be pretty difficult. I concede the point! But underneath the dumpster looks pretty darned good. I could see him sliding under there. Now my hopes are up. Thanks... :s So I hope they save Glenn. Why? - I like Glenn. He's been a great asset since the beginning. - Glenn is a voice of reason and a good balance for Rick. - I'd rather be stuck in that alley than watch half a season of Maggie crying. What I definitely hope they DON'T do ... save Glenn for a short time and then kill him anyway. Either do it or don't.

[JDP]

Glenn and Nicholas didn't have to get themselves out of the situation. They only needed to buy time ... maybe a few hours ... for the rest of the group to pull the situation together and realize they were missing. We all know that someone will come looking for them. So climb the stairs and block it, climb the fence and sit on top of it, or just stay standing on the dumpster. Fire the flare off after several hours if no one shows up. Staying on the dumpster does not look safe at all, specially when you don't know how many hours or maybe even days you will have to hold that position. It's only a matter of time before some of the zombies find their way up or manage to pull you down. And even if someone found you, I think there is very little they could try to do to get you out of that tight spot. That alley was full of zombies, literally. The thing looks like a river of zombies. Unless they have a tank or a bulldozer in Alexandria I don't see how can anyone go into that alley to try to rescue you. So what if the dumpster was padlocked? This is Hollywood... shoot the padlock off and climb inside. ... ... Okay, okay, fine. I didn't notice the padlock and chains. It was obvious that the edges were partially opened and I figure you could make room easily enough, so why not just open one side and jump in? But if you can't get it fully opened it'd be pretty difficult. I concede the point! The dumpster was brimming with trash. You would have had to empty some of it before trying to get in (and the point here is to actually be fully inside the dumpster, protected by its walls and cover, not just lay on top of the garbage with parts of your body sticking out of the dumpster for the zombies to grab and munch on.) Not enough time to make a nice hole to jump in before the zombies caught up. Also the same reason why the dumpster would have been too heavy to move in time next to the blue wall and attempt to climb up to the roof.

[Trin]

Yes, I conceded that without being able to open one side of the dumpster lid you wouldn't be able to clean it out enough to make room for two people. I guarantee you, though, before I blow my head off and become zombie lunch I'm taking a shot at the padlock and trying to get that thing open. Once you could open it I think it is viable. And I'd stand on that dumpster a long time waiting to see if the zombies could get up. It didn't look like they could, given the press of them. The key is not to kill the close ones so they don't become a ramp. I have to believe that once the main group is aware of their dilemma it wouldn't take much to get them safe. They could clear out the side beyond the fence. Or enter the building from the opposite side and approach from the rooftop, dropping a rope to let them climb up. Or draw the group away in chunks. Or use the dozens of guns they have to just clear the group out. Or let Morgan loose on them for like... 5 minutes. Or.... Nicholas and Glenn could just kill a few zombies and douse themselves with zombie guts and walk right out. Don't pretend that doesn't work because Glenn has done it before!

[MinionZombie]

I'm not so sure. To me the door at the top of those stairs looks fairly well blocked and more than likely locked too, meaning that the two lads were stuck on the stairs with all the zebadees coming up towards them. It would only be a matter of time before they succumbed to the sheer mass. I still maintain that in stressful situations, people don't have the luxury of making considered choices. Plus, the guys are looking to put as much distance between themselves and the gang'o'ghouls behind them. So jumping the fence looks like the better option than trapping yourself on a small flight of stairs that leads to a (more than likely) locked door. If the scene had ended with Nicholas and Glenn scaling the fence and running off into the sunset, nobody would be mentioning the blocked stairs leading up to the blocked door as an "option" at all. If I was in that situation, I probably would have tried the fence myself, because (frankly) that flight of stairs is a death trap, even if Nicky doesn't whack himself. Aye. It is all very well and good for us sat comfortably in front of our forum, but in the heat of the moment any one of us could make a wrong choice - out of, quite frankly, a meagre amount of only shit choices. The bottom door of that building was locked, so the top door would likely be locked too. If Nicholas had been as capable as Glenn they could have hugged close in the centre of that dumpster lid and avoid the clawing hands of the dead (they'd have to be careful as they could be tripped/pulled down if they weren't careful) ... but you could have both stood on there, as has been suggested, and waited to see what might happen. They do have a flare - now that it's been mentioned by others - so I'm now quite convinced Glenn will use it to distract the bulk of the other walkers in the herd (the ones who would never be able to join in on the buffet anyway), get himself some wiggle room, crawl under the dumpster and make a run for it when he can. I do hope we get resolution next week rather than having to wait two weeks. Hardwick did announce there will be a "secret cast member" to appear on next week's Talking Dead - so I'd imagine that'll be Steven Yeun ... or it might be Lennie James (if it is indeed a Morgan heavy, Glenn lite/none episode). If it is Yeun then it's either two options - Glenn does die or Glenn just has an absolutely epic ride giving plenty of Yeun to talk about. I do think, considering how few Season 1 cast members we've got, those 'original cast' deaths have to be used very sparingly - we've barely got anyone left from Season 1 as it stands! Sure, there was only six episodes, but still - we've lost so many, and if you've made it this far it's for a bloody good reason. You have capabilities beyond normal men - or those of us posting on forums. I was very convinced of my previous theory, but more and more I'm thinking Glenn survives - again, I come back to this: hopefully they have a very good way of showing exactly how that can work practically. All the little steps, all the extraordinarily close encounters etc ... and I would like to see some undead fingernails tear some flesh (but leave our folks alive) in future episodes. That'll add an even deeper 'skin of your teeth' vibe to escaping a walker attack. We could also do with a subplot involving general infection of an otherwise survivable wound, something that isn't like Hershel surviving having his leg chopped off, but more like as I say - some sort of wound inflicted by the walkers (that isn't a bite) that gives someone a rough time which they have to fight through. Although, considering Season 4A's story about that virus we've kind of done that thing before ... but maybe just a little one, in the background of an episode or two? We've seen that walkers' bony fingertips (the nails and the bones - being that the flesh has been torn away) can really do some damage in the past, so I would like to see a bit of their 'dangerous touch' ... "Oh shit! I've been fingered by a walker! Nurse! Gimme stitches!"

[Mr. Clean]

My thoughts on Glenn   I don't think Glenn is dead. Even though it's an extremely stupid idea, I think he will probably get extremely lucky. We probably won't see him for 2 or 3 episodes....maybe the finale. Michonne's line that went something like "until you've been covered in blood and wasn't sure if it was yours...someone else's....or walkers...then you don't know" was probably some type of foreshadowing for Glenn in the Alley. Not the first time he has been covered in someone elses guts

[MinionZombie]

Hmmm ... I think the 'covered in someone else's blood' is more related to Heath specifically, particularly as there was that moment where he sees his own blood-soaked face reflected back at him in that stream. It could be tangentially linked elsewhere, perhaps ... but hmmm...

[DayoftheZ]

while 3x14 - the one where Andrea and The Governor play hide and seek in that old factory - was quite possibly the worst episode of TWD and a decided, incongruous, low point). I really like that episode, I thought the whole part of the Governor tormenting Andrea as he followed her through that building was great fun. Granted the chase across the field was a bit daft but the rest I really liked.

[MinionZombie]

I really like that episode, I thought the whole part of the Governor tormenting Andrea as he followed her through that building was great fun. Granted the chase across the field was a bit daft but the rest I really liked. Yeah, there's bits of it I like to - and "worst" episode of TWD is a relative thing. I did enjoy the 'playing with sound' aspect in the factory chase, but at the same time it was an overlong sequence in a rather patchy episode. That back half of season 3 did suffer from some 'holding pattern' stuff as they attempted to fill in some time before the finale face off that they alluded to, but which didn't actually happen, which was a kind of silly thing to do. Fortunately they've not really done anything like that since. To be fair, season 3 was the first time doing two chunks of eight episodes, so there was additional content to come up with (similar to how going up to 13 episodes in season 2 ended up making the first seven shows a little bit dawdly at times) ... fortunately they've been on-point from season 4 onwards with their pacing.

[shootemindehead]

The stairs were not wide enough to allow a large number of zombies coming up at them all at once. So even if some zombies eventually managed to find their way to the stairs (first they need to find a way through the obstacles, and since they have a very low IQ that obviously is going to take them a while to figure out), you could deal with them much safer. Shoot or stab in the head some of them on the stairs and their piling corpses will also make more obstacles for any others finding their way up. They would have had a much better control of the situation on those stairs, even if they could not have found a way out. With the sheer weight of numbers coming up those stairs, it would only have been a matter of time before the boys were doomed. If there weren't so many zombies around, the stairs could be an option. But the volume means that even if you kill a huge number that come up, the ones behind will eventually push through or scramble over to get (exhausted and terrified) you. Maybe they could have survived on the stairs for a while, but the eventually of the horde getting to them seems obvious to me. Plus they've limited ammo and I think only Glenn has a knife as a melee weapon. That's not enough and far too much of a risk. But, again, I have to point out that the luxury of mapping out all the possibilities is absent from the situation that Glenn and Nicholas find themselves in. The boys have a matter of seconds to choose where they are going to go and in that small amount of time, hopping over the fence and away certainly looks to be the better option. In any case, the writing is set up to show the fence as the "way out" for Glenn and Nicholas. Michone's group pretty much scrambles over the same obstacle, so the viewer is led to believe that Glenn etc will do the same maneuver. Either way, all the bets were only off when Nicholas shot himself. There are still options open to them up until then. Nicholas blew his head off because they were screwed. They put themselves in a situation from which there hardly was any way out. On top of a dumpster surrounded by zombies and not near to anything other than a barbed wire fence does not look very hopeful. Nicholas opted out because he lost it. I don't think they were necessarily "screwed". The situation was bad for sure, but it wasn't game over. I think he'd been getting closer and closer to the edge all the way through that episode anyway. He'd been wracked with guilt and "collapsing from stress". His suicide was the culmination of a number of factors...not to mention script. You might also fall down to your death while trying to "negotiate it", specially with hundreds of zombies shaking the fence trying to claw their way up to get you. Also, you would have to jump onto the fence, since the dumpster is not right next to it but nearby. You miscalculate or do not get a firm grip and down you go. And there are no second chances with that zombie mob waiting for you down there. True, there's a whole load of "mights" involved. Still, out of all of the "options" available at the time, hopping onto the bin and over the fence looked to be the best one. Climbing on the dumpster was not their original plan but a last resource action. They had no other choice at that point. The only "plan" way getting away from the zombie horde and scaling the fence looked to be the best option to put distance between them and said horde. Only when we see that there are zombies on the other side of the fence, does that option look bad. By that time, the opportunity to clear the palettes and other crap, try the stairs and hope the door at the top isn't looked, is gone. But, as I said, if Glenn and Nicholas had actually climbed onto the bin and over the fence, in much the same way as Michone's group climbed over the fence, and got away, nobody would even be talking about the stairs. If you have climbed up a fence you already know that it is more difficult than simply climbing up a flight of stairs. Seek the path of least resistance, specially when a mob of zombies is approaching. Plus there's more possibilities to find an escape on those stairs than the door, supposing that it was blocked and locked. They have to clear the stairs first and that'll take time, which they don't have, plus it's leading up to a blocked door (which more than likely is locked). The camera shoots to the stairs specifically to show that it's blocked. That was done for a reason. That path is full of resistance. The ground door is from the next building, not the one with the staircase. Plus it is not clear if the chipboard is really nailed shut or is just covering the entrance. Whoever tried to block that place doesn't look like he invested a lot of time doing it. He just threw a mattress and wooden pallets at the bottom of the stairs. There is no telling what he did upstairs. And the windows don't look covered by anything. You could try to break through the window that is beside and somewhat lower than the stairs. Just pick one of the wooden pallets and start smashing the window, then jump in. Usually, when chipboard is put over an entrance like that, it means the building has been locked up and not in use. I think it's safe to assume that the owner probably locked up his place to keep people out while he rode out the situation somewhere else. To me, with a few seconds to spare to make a life and death decision, running up a flight of stairs to hope that the door behind the chipboard isn't locked simply wouldn't be on the cards. There's far too many what ifs going on there, for that to be a logical "escape". Sure, the window could be smashed, but nobody knows where that leads to or what's behind it either. Plus that takes time, there's the danger of glass, and possibly a drop to god knows what. Not to mention that the zombies following could climb through the same window. Again, we've had the luxury of seeing and debating all of the options at our leisure. Glenn and Nicholas didn't. They had to decide very quickly and their primary goal was getting away from the horde following them. Hopping over the fence instead of trapping yourself on the stairs looks to be the better way to escape. It's only when we see that there are zombies on the other side of the fence that the option of the stairs begins to look like an option at all. Hand on heart, if I was in the same situation, I'd have tried the fence too. Both Nicholas and Glenn are to blame. They did not react in time. And they had plenty of it. Look at how long that alley is. They ran down all the way to the end and passed TWO stairways (yes, look carefully, there are actually two buildings with stairways in that alley) and they did not attempt to go up. They had no time. That's the problem and their decisions are formed by the lack of that, fear, exhaustion and the want to put as much distance between themselves and the flesh eating horde that's after them. But Nicholas led Glenn down the wrong path, after saying he knew where to go and then compounded things by deciding to kill himself. They were far from done on top of the dumpster. They had as much chance of riding out the situation on top of the dumpster as they did at the top of the stairs. - - - Updated - - - Aye. It is all very well and good for us sat comfortably in front of our forum, but in the heat of the moment any one of us could make a wrong choice - out of, quite frankly, a meagre amount of only shit choices. The bottom door of that building was locked, so the top door would likely be locked too. If Nicholas had been as capable as Glenn they could have hugged close in the centre of that dumpster lid and avoid the clawing hands of the dead (they'd have to be careful as they could be tripped/pulled down if they weren't careful) ... but you could have both stood on there, as has been suggested, and waited to see what might happen. They do have a flare - now that it's been mentioned by others - so I'm now quite convinced Glenn will use it to distract the bulk of the other walkers in the herd (the ones who would never be able to join in on the buffet anyway), get himself some wiggle room, crawl under the dumpster and make a run for it when he can. Of course. Glenn and Redser have to make a very quick decision. The horde is gaining on them and they want to get away. The best "get away" looks like the fence. The stairs looks like it'll take a bit of time to clear, plus, there's no guarantee that the door at the top is anything but another obstacle, leaving them trapped and having to fight off an inevitable onslaught, that will, more than likely, overwhelm them. Given that probability, standing on the dumpster looks ok. There's the window as JDP has pointed out, but that holds its own problems. Also, do we know for sure how many zombies are on the other side of the fence? Perhaps there's the option to thin them out, then hop over? Of course, Nick excludes any other possibilities after thinking of bullets.

[Buzzbomb]

Kudos to DayOfTheZ for pointing out the blue Dawn walker! Nice one... The change in the amount of blood on Heath's face is interesting - after shooting the walkers at the fence his face is clean, but shortly after there's some blood... and by the time they reach the river there's a whole lot more. Of course they could have run into more walkers on their way - though Michonne doesn't have any blood. I know it's kind of allegorical, given the speech Michonne gave, but still kind of funny...