Corona Virus

[EvilNed]

So, I wonder if the global community will do the sensible thing, and hold China and the WHO accountable for their handling of the earlier stages of this pandemic? ie: Their lies/poor information? Exactly what do you think China and WHO have done wrong..?

[shootemindehead]

Why the WHO?

[bassman]

I believe he could be referring to the news that China and the WHO allegedly downplayed the severity. It’s all just finger pointing and blame in a time when it doesn’t matter and shouldn’t be happening. Deal with the problem at hand first, then launch the investigations when it’s under control. Update on my non essential employer....I haven’t been forced to return just yet, but I’m having to call literally every day to plead my case. Each day, he gives me one more day. Rinse and repeat.

[shootemindehead]

Alleged by whom? Donald Trump? I'd take anything that orange gobshite says with a huge pinch of salt. Especially when he's looking for someone else to blame for his own handling of the Covid 19 problem in America. In a time where everyone should be trying to come together to fight a common problem, he's looking to apportion blame around in an effort to make himself look better. School yard gibberish of the lowest level. Re: your employer Bassy, I just don't know what to say, other than try to get a different job when all of this is over, which isn't much help I know. But you shouldn't have to be giving reasons to isolate, given everything that's going on.

[EvilNed]

I don't agree that China has downplayed the severity. They seem to have been pretty open about it from the start. I do not however believe that news of the Virus spread from local level all the way to the top very quickly however. It's never pleasant to tell your boss bad news, even less so in dictatorships. I don't understand at all what WHO has done wrong. Downplayed the severity? Well, to be fair - NO country has managed to handle this outbreak quite as well as China, and that's because they simply walled people up in their homes. But China isn't North Korea, there are thousands of foreigners and journalists living there. News has been coming in and out steadily.

[bassman]

Re: your employer Bassy, I just don't know what to say, other than try to get a different job when all of this is over, which isn't much help I know. But you shouldn't have to be giving reasons to isolate, given everything that's going on. Indeed. The problem is, I love the job! I stopped working in the movie/tv industry for this job. I think that says a lot. The job and coworkers are fantastic, I’ve never liked a job more. It’s just that the owner is being stupid, but luckily he doesn’t run the actual operation. I’m trying to give him the benefit of the doubt because he obviously has lots of concerns and financial difficulties with this virus, just like everyone, but he’s not exactly being the most humane person about it. I’m fairly certain he has a “nasal problem” as well, so I know that doesn’t help! As for the covid-19 blaming we’ve been discussing, we all know that there will be investigations for years to come, so I hope Trump and company can put this stuff aside and deal with the real problem right now. People STILL talk about the conspiracy theories and 9/11 reports, so you know we’ll likely be hearing the same kind of stuff until we all leave this world...

[shootemindehead]

I don't agree that China has downplayed the severity. They seem to have been pretty open about it from the start. I do not however believe that news of the Virus spread from local level all the way to the top very quickly however. It's never pleasant to tell your boss bad news, even less so in dictatorships. I don't understand at all what WHO has done wrong. Downplayed the severity? Well, to be fair - NO country has managed to handle this outbreak quite as well as China, and that's because they simply walled people up in their homes. But China isn't North Korea, there are thousands of foreigners and journalists living there. News has been coming in and out steadily. There is some question on the validity of China's numbers. But those questions are usually being put forward by folk who wouldn't be that well disposed to that country in the first place. So caveat emptor. As for the WHO, I don't know what there is to be honestly criticised there. Not in any genuine terms anyway. They've put out some conflicting info re: masks and whatnot. But they're certainly not alone where bits of confusion are concerned. They could have been better in some areas, but they're facing something that's not been seen since the end of the First World War. I wouldn't expect them to have all the answers so quickly. As for Trump's gibberish, he seems to be blaming the WHO for being "too China centric", which is bollocks talk of the lowest kind. Of course they're going to focus on China a lot. It's where the bloody thing originated from and where the primary lessons are to be learned. It would be foolish of them not to put the focus on China. His comments and subsequent threats are moronic and unhelpful. But par the course for him and this version of the Republican party, which frankly has been a disaster since the 2000's. - - - Updated - - - Indeed. The problem is, I love the job! I stopped working in the movie/tv industry for this job. I think that says a lot. The job and coworkers are fantastic, I’ve never liked a job more. It’s just that the owner is being stupid, but luckily he doesn’t run the actual operation. I’m trying to give him the benefit of the doubt because he obviously has lots of concerns and financial difficulties with this virus, just like everyone, but he’s not exactly being the most humane person about it. I’m fairly certain he has a “nasal problem” as well, so I know that doesn’t help! Aye, I recall you saying you were happy when you got the job. But no job is worth taking the risks that this virus presents. If you caught off someone and then passed it on to an elderly relative (and by "elderly" I'm talking 60+), you'd never forgive yourself. I understand the owners financial concerns, but that's a big boat he's in and its full of people with same worries. Perhaps there's a way to stagger the number of people that go into the office/place of work? One week in/one week off? Limit the numbers in there? And observe the social distance requirements? I don't know. But just nagging people isn't on.

[MinionZombie]

There was an issue with China attempting to silence the doctor who tried to warn the world early on. He's now dead, having contracted the virus. Not a great look for China, and certainly a very bad thing to do anyway. They no doubt cracked down hard when there was no other option (something they'd be easily capable of doing considering their government and culture), but yeah, not off to a good start: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li_Wenliang https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...or-li-wenliang https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-r...us-11584637545 And it seems it wasn't just the one doctor attempting to warn people (in December 2019) who was blocked by the government: https://www.businessinsider.com/wuha...20-3?r=US&IR=T ... There'll absolutely need to be a full analysis of this whole thing, including where it came from and how it came to be, plus a full timeline of events and decisions taken across the globe, but also in terms of how every government across the world made wrong decisions. Some of the lack of decision making I was surprised by, as various recommendations were already available here in the UK (for example) in a document about Pandemic preparedness (that is/was freely available for any member of the public to download - as I did several years ago in order to do research for a script) ... and other decisions were just silly (e.g. telling people to all buy their food via online supermarket services even though, quite obviously, they wouldn't have had the capacity to deal with it). Fines for people taking the piss and ignoring guidelines should also be increased (some of the fines I've seen dished out have been about as much as a normal parking ticket, even less), and I hope these morons doing things like trying to spread fear by, for instance, doing stupid shit on social media (like licking their hands and wiping it on food and surfaces while talking about Coronavirus) get a bloody good strike against them and even a criminal record. Idiotic actions should have serious consequences. I've said it before, but this whole thing - in addition to being a huge problem - is also a huge opportunity to learn. No doubt there'll be another pandemic in the future, although hopefully it'd be a very long way away, and hopefully we can mitigate it far quicker and more effectively than we've managed thus far with Covid-19. This pandemic is an active training ground in how to deal with this very scenario.

[Neil]

Exactly what do you think China and WHO have done wrong..? Some points:- The WHO praised China for being "transparent", while China in fact actively covered up the early stages of the out break, with numerous of their own doctors (whistle blowers) being shut down. Some of the Chinese doctors have now seemingly "disappeared". The WHO, while praising China, happily ignores China is one of the most oppressive inhumane regimes in the world. The WHO in the middle of January were singing China's praise, and telling the world there was no evidence of person to person infection. Are we to believe China didn't know there was person to person transfer in the middle of January? Meanwhile the WHO had been told by Taiwan (one of the first countries to be hit) in December they had proof of person to person infection. But the WHO will not acknowledge the existance of Taiwan (because of China?). Note: Taiwan have a history of detecting and identifying and handling diseases coming out of China, so why do the WHO refuse to acknowledge/listen to them? Why won't the WHO even allow Taiwan to have a seat? The WHO said travel bans were not wise, when clearly they were. Italy suffered heavily due to the direct flights from Wuhan. The WHO should have told countries to close down flights sooner. Note: Trump of course shut down flights very early, and was lambasted by the press at the time for doing so because the WHO said it was not necessary. More recently the WHO have welcomed China reopening their wet markets, which have historically delivered numerous plagues to the planet, and now they're open again, risking delivering more. Do you believe the figures (& information) reported from China are real? Me neither. Why don't the WHO question them? In summary, China covered up/lied about the early stages of the infection and they silenced whistle blowers. The WHO played along, and made poor decisions. They are seemingly partisan towards China. Surely these are significant failings/issues? Ultimately:- The WHO needs reforming. China needs to be held accountable ps1: Let's remember the WHO only a few years ago wanted to make Robert Mugabe a "goodwill ambassador", ignoring his track record of human rights violations. ps2: Nice fact about Taiwan - Trump is the first president to have spoken to (recognise them) in something like 40yrs... ie: Rightly ignoring China's oppression of them.

[EvilNed]

Fair enough, they are good points. I will however argue that I do believe China reports truthfully about their figures. But they have completely different methods available to them to shut a virus like this down. They are only reporting confirmed cases, I'm sure they know very well there are more. But that is appliceable to any country. I have friends who work in Shanghai. Shanghai was completely shut down for a few weeks, despite the fact that the virus never reached them in any great capacity. The methods adopted by the Chinese regime have been draconian, but efficient.

[Neil]

Fair enough, they are good points. I will however argue that I do believe China reports truthfully about their figures. But they have completely different methods available to them to shut a virus like this down. They are only reporting confirmed cases, I'm sure they know very well there are more. But that is appliceable to any country. I have friends who work in Shanghai. Shanghai was completely shut down for a few weeks, despite the fact that the virus never reached them in any great capacity. The methods adopted by the Chinese regime have been draconian, but efficient. And on a side note, let's keep in mind how endemically racist (& supremacist) China is. But where is the WHO's condemnation of this? A horrific social credit system, ethnic clensing and let's not get into forced organ harvesting. The WHO? Crickets!

[EvilNed]

The US can be blamed for running concentration camps, toppling democractically elected leaders and international terrorism. WHO doesn't condemn the US either, so what's the point?

[shootemindehead]

Some points:- The WHO praised China for being "transparent", while China in fact actively covered up the early stages of the out break, with numerous of their own doctors (whistle blowers) being shut down. Some of the Chinese doctors have now seemingly "disappeared". The WHO, while praising China, happily ignores China is one of the most oppressive inhumane regimes in the world. The WHO in the middle of January were singing China's praise, and telling the world there was no evidence of person to person infection. Are we to believe China didn't know there was person to person transfer in the middle of January? Meanwhile the WHO had been told by Taiwan (one of the first countries to be hit) in December they had proof of person to person infection. But the WHO will not acknowledge the existance of Taiwan (because of China?). Note: Taiwan have a history of detecting and identifying and handling diseases coming out of China, so why do the WHO refuse to acknowledge/listen to them? Why won't the WHO even allow Taiwan to have a seat? The WHO said travel bans were not wise, when clearly they were. Italy suffered heavily due to the direct flights from Wuhan. The WHO should have told countries to close down flights sooner. Note: Trump of course shut down flights very early, and was lambasted by the press at the time for doing so because the WHO said it was not necessary. More recently the WHO have welcomed China reopening their wet markets, which have historically delivered numerous plagues to the planet, and now they're open again, risking delivering more. Do you believe the figures (& information) reported from China are real? Me neither. Why don't the WHO question them? In summary, China covered up/lied about the early stages of the infection and they silenced whistle blowers. The WHO played along, and made poor decisions. They are seemingly partisan towards China. Surely these are significant failings/issues? Ultimately:- The WHO needs reforming. China needs to be held accountable ps1: Let's remember the WHO only a few years ago wanted to make Robert Mugabe a "goodwill ambassador", ignoring his track record of human rights violations. ps2: Nice fact about Taiwan - Trump is the first president to have spoken to (recognise them) in something like 40yrs... ie: Rightly ignoring China's oppression of them. What would have been the point in the WHO "condemning" China at the beginning of a viral outbreak that threatened everywhere else? The likely result would have been less transparency, not more. This also assumes that the WHO was in full possession of the facts regarding China, which we're told weren't being "transparent" in the first place. It's merely assuming foul play on the WHO's behalf, where there are no facts to support such a belief. By the way, the WHO are an apolitical organisation. They aren't in the business of scoring points against other countries, like Trump and his administration. If the were, they'd probably have a LOT to say about America's involvement around the world and the detrimental effects it has on it. It serves the WHO no purpose at all to condemning any nation, when there's a ton of fault to go around every nation. If the WHO started point fingers at China, then they'd have to start doing that to Italy, Spain, France, Britain and America as well. Not to mention others. I think you been listening to too much Donnie Neil. The same arse that has now withdrawn funding to the WHO...in the middle of a global pandemic. You couldn't make it up.

[Neil]

What would have been the point in the WHO "condemning" China at the beginning of a viral outbreak that threatened everywhere else? The likely result would have been less transparency, not more. This also assumes that the WHO was in full possession of the facts regarding China, which we're told weren't being "transparent" in the first place. It's merely assuming foul play on the WHO's behalf, where there are no facts to support such a belief. By the way, the WHO are an apolitical organisation. They aren't in the business of scoring points against other countries, like Trump and his administration. If the were, they'd probably have a LOT to say about America's involvement around the world and the detrimental effects it has on it. It serves the WHO no purpose at all to condemning any nation, when there's a ton of fault to go around every nation. If the WHO started point fingers at China, then they'd have to start doing that to Italy, Spain, France, Britain and America as well. Not to mention others. You're right, the WHO is supposed to be apolitical organisation. Let's once again, consider how objectively the WHO did that, and in doing so, also consider Chinas part in events, which people are seemingly happy to ignore? Whistle blowers in China try to inform the world of the impending pandemic. China silences them. The WHO? Crickets... End of December (31st?), China finally admit there is a Corona Virus. Keep in mind WHO had already received reports before this, and even reports which confirmed person to person tranmission. Why did it take China month(s) to admit this, and to share this information? Why did they actively suppress this information? Why didn't WHO question this delay and hiding of information? Why did the WHO simply take China's word on these matters? Indeed, why have the WHO instead praised China? Almost immediately, the CDC repeatedly offered to help China identify and investigate the disease. China refused. The WHO? Crickets... Within a week of China's admission, the CDC recommended a travel warning for Wuhan. Why hadn't the WHO done this week(s) before? Etc.... To more recent events such as the WHO praising China for reopening the same wet markets that have now created at least three serious pandemics in the past two decades. To coin a phrase, "You couldn't make it up!" The WHO bungled this pandemic. It has shown partisan action in favour of China to the detriment to the rest of the globe. Its poorly considered actions cost the world time, and quite literally lives. ...The same arse that has now withdrawn funding to the WHO...in the middle of a global pandemic. You couldn't make it up. I'll have to be frank, but that to me at least comes across as a feelies over facts. ie: Why should the US continue to put in $40m a month into an organisation clearly no longer fit for purpose? The WHO wasn't really helping contain this pandemic over the last couple of months, let alone now. So couldn't $40m a month be put to better use domestically in the US, until such time as the WHO is reformed such that it is fit for purpose? When should funding be removed? In six months time when that quarter of a billion dollars could probably have been used far more constructively domestically? Note: This is the same "arse" who on some calls has been ahead of the curve by taking action not proposed/endorsed by the WHO, until much later. The same "arse" who has even donated some of his salary to the cause...

[shootemindehead]

You're right, the WHO is supposed to be apolitical organisation. Let's once again, consider how objectively the WHO did that, and in doing so, also consider Chinas part in events, which people are seemingly happy to ignore? Whistle blowers in China try to inform the world of the impending pandemic. China silences them. The WHO? Crickets... End of December (31st?), China finally admit there is a Corona Virus. Keep in mind WHO had already received reports before this, and even reports which confirmed person to person tranmission. Why did it take China month(s) to admit this, and to share this information? Why did they actively suppress this information? Why didn't WHO question this delay and hiding of information? Why did the WHO simply take China's word on these matters? Indeed, why have the WHO instead praised China? Almost immediately, the CDC repeatedly offered to help China identify and investigate the disease. China refused. The WHO? Crickets... Within a week of China's admission, the CDC recommended a travel warning for Wuhan. Why hadn't the WHO done this week(s) before? Etc.... To more recent events such as the WHO praising China for reopening the same wet markets that have now created at least three serious pandemics in the past two decades. To coin a phrase, "You couldn't make it up!" The WHO bungled this pandemic. It has shown partisan action in favour of China to the detriment to the rest of the globe. Its poorly considered actions cost the world time, and quite literally lives. EVERYBODY has "bungled" this pandemic to a degree. That's still no reason to be playing silly political games with an organisation that is at the front line in the war against it Neil. You can bullet point selective details against the WHO all you want, but now is certainly not the time to be pulling funding from them, especially when the most vulnerable countries are beginning to feel the sting of Covid-19. If certain quarters want to offer constructive critical points about the WHO's handling of Covid-19 and anyone else's for that matter, then they can do that. But what doesn't help at all is subtracting funding from a group that are instrumental in fighting the problem. As for being "objective", I don't think you are. You are merely parroting the party line that Trump has offered you. I'll have to be frank, but that to me at least comes across as a feelies over facts. ie: Why should the US continue to put in $40m a month into an organisation clearly no longer fit for purpose? The WHO wasn't really helping contain this pandemic over the last couple of months, let alone now. So couldn't $40m a month be put to better use domestically in the US, until such time as the WHO is reformed such that it is fit for purpose? When should funding be removed? In six months time when that quarter of a billion dollars could probably have been used far more constructively domestically? Note: This is the same "arse" who on some calls has been ahead of the curve by taking action not proposed/endorsed by the WHO, until much later. The same "arse" who has even donated some of his salary to the cause... Nothing to with "feelies over facts". This should be about helping to stem the spread of a global pandemic. The worst that we've seen in 100 years. Not about playing silly political games and trying to divert the public's attention away from the Trump administration's own shortcomings. You attempt to label the WHO as "not fit for purpose" sounds ridiculous and is absolutely baseless too.