Avatar 2 & 3 (& 4?)

[bassman]

This thread keeps circling around like a debate on religion....

[EvilNed]

Ok, entering advanced Reply mode. I'm gonna give this my full attention now, because frankly, like bassman has pointed out, this is just getting ridiculous. I'm somewhat provoked by the fact that someone tells me that I'm wrong in my opinion. That I'm overreacting and that something is clearly not as bad as I make it out to be. My answer to that is simply "Doesn't my opinion count?". I don't like Avatar. I think it's a really bad film. It's not average. It's not "meh". It's not bad. It's really bad. Now, Neil suggests that I feel this way only because of the fact that it's one of the highest grossing films of all time. He also points out that similar opinions are held of Titanic, another high grossing film. I do not dislike Titanic. Infact, I think it's a good film. Is it "teh bomb"? No, but it's good. I've seen it a few times. I saw it in the cinema as well. I'm not one of the people who diss Titanic simply because it features a love story. Neil is suggesting that I dislike Avatar simply because the majority like it. Now, reading from this thread alone, it doesn't really seem as if the majority are all that crazy about it. So again, Neil, what gives? Are we all "wrong"? Is Avatar an OK film, and that's somehow a fact? (Or "clearly" an OK film, whatever that "clearly" means) I don't believe we are. Does that mean that you are wrong? No, you're not wrong in your opinion of the film. Of that you are entitled. But I dare say that what you might be wrong about is the perception of the situation. Your perception that people are against this film simply because it's popular. Then you point out similar opinions about Titanic and/or other moneymaking films. But I believe the fallacy here is that people are "out for these films". A more valid assumption would be that you're simply more perceptive of these opinions BECAUSE of the fact that they are more popular. If you're in a room full of people and you and a bunch of friends are rating them from appearance, and there's this one person that really stands out as beautiful and you and your friends all rate her as a 9 or 10. But there's one or two that don't agree and would rather rate them rather lowly. Maybe even at a 2 or 3. You're more likely to pick up and remember THAT than any other differeing opinion. But to instantly jump to the conclusion that they're doing it just to be "different" or because it's "cool" is kind of ignorant. Why can't it just be that people have different taste? Is that so hard to grasp? Yes, they are the odd ones out. But so what? Those kind of people exist in all kind of situations.

[Sammich]

And I agree, some of the acting felt very flat, and indeed the script was somewhat flat/linear. It's certainly one of Cameron's 'lesser' films in those departments. But does that reduce every aspect, scene and moment of the entire film down to "$hit"? Can't understand how anyone can say yes... Even for those individuals who think the story was very lacking, surely they can at least agree it was filmed, or directed or edited or scored well, or that it was even just mediocre? But I fear some are so fixated on their 'hatred' they're above being in any way reasonable and will continue with their damnation of seemingly every aspect and every moment of the film!?! I didn't say it was a shit movie. My issue is with people who intentionally or ignorantly are trying to elevate Avatar to ridiculous levels above classic movies. Have they actually seen Citizen Kane or are they just parroting what some 20 year old knob said on youtube? Like I said CK and It's a Wonderful Life have all of the elements that makes them classic films. Avatar has nice sound and visuals and that is about it. When I go to the theater and pay $15 I expect to see a movie, not a music video and for something that was hyped as being 15 years IMO it fell far short.

[LouCipherr]

This thread keeps circling around like a debate on religion....

[Neil]

Ok, entering advanced Reply mode. I'm gonna give this my full attention now, because frankly, like bassman has pointed out, this is just getting ridiculous. I'm somewhat provoked by the fact that someone tells me that I'm wrong in my opinion. That I'm overreacting and that something is clearly not as bad as I make it out to be. My answer to that is simply "Doesn't my opinion count?". I don't like Avatar. I think it's a really bad film. It's not average. It's not "meh". It's not bad. It's really bad. Now, Neil suggests that I feel this way only because of the fact that it's one of the highest grossing films of all time. He also points out that similar opinions are held of Titanic, another high grossing film. I do not dislike Titanic. Infact, I think it's a good film. Is it "teh bomb"? No, but it's good. I've seen it a few times. I saw it in the cinema as well. I'm not one of the people who diss Titanic simply because it features a love story. Neil is suggesting that I dislike Avatar simply because the majority like it. Now, reading from this thread alone, it doesn't really seem as if the majority are all that crazy about it. So again, Neil, what gives? Are we all "wrong"? Is Avatar an OK film, and that's somehow a fact? (Or "clearly" an OK film, whatever that "clearly" means) I don't believe we are. Does that mean that you are wrong? No, you're not wrong in your opinion of the film. Of that you are entitled. But I dare say that what you might be wrong about is the perception of the situation. Your perception that people are against this film simply because it's popular. Then you point out similar opinions about Titanic and/or other moneymaking films. But I believe the fallacy here is that people are "out for these films". A more valid assumption would be that you're simply more perceptive of these opinions BECAUSE of the fact that they are more popular. If you're in a room full of people and you and a bunch of friends are rating them from appearance, and there's this one person that really stands out as beautiful and you and your friends all rate her as a 9 or 10. But there's one or two that don't agree and would rather rate them rather lowly. Maybe even at a 2 or 3. You're more likely to pick up and remember THAT than any other differeing opinion. But to instantly jump to the conclusion that they're doing it just to be "different" or because it's "cool" is kind of ignorant. Why can't it just be that people have different taste? Is that so hard to grasp? Yes, they are the odd ones out. But so what? Those kind of people exist in all kind of situations. OK! I'll put my hands up and admit I've taken the bit between my teeth on this matter, and maybe got carried away. And you make a very fair and valid point! But in my defense, if I use your analogy:- You're rating a group of people based upon their looks, character, fitness, kindness and humour etc etc. One of your friends rates one particular individual as not just a bad human being, but a really bad human being. Now you don't believe the person in question is particularly offensive, and you know for certain your friend has met many far worse people, some of which are clearly deserving of such a harsh description. Would you not question such an outcome? In short, if "Avatar" is "really bad" on your measuring stick, then where do "Transmorphers" or "Howard the Duck" measure up? Really really really bad, or really really really really really bad? Anyway, I admit I've been far too defensive! I apologize if I've upset anyone!

[Tricky]

I'm with Neil on this one, I've seen far, far worse films than Avatar so lumping it with the shittest films ever made is pretty harsh. Its all opinion though, just because someone thinks its shit doesnt mean its shit, just as someone thinking it is the best film ever doesnt make it so. I thought the original Texas Chainsaw Massacre was a load of shite when I watched it, but that doesnt stop it having a huge fan base and cult status because plenty of people love it. Its like music, plenty of peple listen to Beiber and he obviously flicks the right switches for some people, even though I think its a load of shite because I listen to what I consider "proper" music, but its just my opinion, doesnt make me right

[LouCipherr]

I thought the original Texas Chainsaw Massacre was a load of shite when I watched it, but that doesnt stop it having a huge fan base and cult status because plenty of people love it. Not to derail this thread from... well.. whatever it is now.. I am SO glad I finally found someone who agrees with me on the original TCM! I could never figure out WTF was so "great" about that film, yet everyone raved about it. I guess the same thing is happening with me and Avatar. Then again perhaps I really am just the HPotD curmudgeon! Hey, I can accept that!

[AcesandEights]

Not to derail this thread from... well.. whatever it is now.. I am SO glad I finally found someone who agrees with me on the original TCM! I could never figure out WTF was so "great" about that film, yet everyone raved about it. It's like Freud, but in film. A landmark in its genre, but not for technical reasons. It was the right film, at the right time and innovative in what it brought to the general film-going public.

[LouCipherr]

It's like Freud, but in film. A landmark in its genre, but not for technical reasons. It was the right film, at the right time and innovative in what it brought to the general film-going public. I guess I missed the window of opportunity for that one. Then again, I was 3 when it came out, so I didn't see it for a while after it's original release.

[Sammich]

It's like Freud, but in film. A landmark in its genre, but not for technical reasons. It was the right film, at the right time and innovative in what it brought to the general film-going public. One of the few things I remember from school was how the "cool kids" would always talk about how the guy in the wheelchair got killed. It was one of those things back then that kids used for bragging rights because it meant you snuck in to see a R rated movie.

[Neil]

Weaver confirms - http://www.showbiz411.com/2012/06/26...-the-same-time Sigourney Weaver confirmed tonight that James Cameron is shooting “Avatar” 2, 3, and 4 all at the same time, all with her, and starting this fall.

[MinionZombie]

Three movies back-to-back? Well I hope the scripts are good in advance of shooting all that footage! Wasn't really expecting anything to happen with these for ages yet, but starting to shoot this fall, eh? Moving earlier than I thought he would on this.

[shootemindehead]

...but starting to shoot this fall, eh?.... Look at you...gone all American.

[Neil]

Three movies back-to-back? Well I hope the scripts are good in advance of shooting all that footage! Wasn't really expecting anything to happen with these for ages yet, but starting to shoot this fall, eh? Moving earlier than I thought he would on this. Yep, the scripts need to be an improvement from the first. So fingers crossed!

[MinionZombie]

Yep, the scripts need to be an improvement from the first. So fingers crossed! The script for the first wasn't atrocious (although some vehemently claim so), but it wasn't all that original either. It definitely needed some more subtlety, some new ideas for the plot, and some of the dialogue was ever-so-blunt, but I still enjoyed it. The tech aspects were the wow factor in the movie, not the script, that's for sure. Look at you...gone all American. *starts swiping at self in a panic* Dear God, you're right! Naturally, what I meant to say, was "Autumn".