TWD 4x04 "Indifference" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN**

[Moon Knight]

Sorry, should have added: to my post. Haha the power of the smiley! Btw- Anyone else catch the sign with the numbers flipped around to spell "HELL"? It was pretty obvious but a cool little touch.

[kidgloves]

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[MinionZombie]

However, my spider sense is telling me that after Daryl discovers what Rick has done, Daryl will split off to look for Carol; possibly splitting the group as well. Oooooooooh ... that's an interesting idea! Yeah, we've definitely not seen the last of Carol - but what?! But how?! Oh my! Btw- Anyone else catch the sign with the numbers flipped around to spell "HELL"? It was pretty obvious but a cool little touch. I was watching it and I thought "what's that sign doing upside down?" and didn't even notice it read "HELL" until it was pointed out on Talking Dead. You mad f*cker Aces haha, aye, that gave me a chuckle. Spoilers do suck though, sorry you saw that, Neil. Love the moral dilemma angles of this season so far - lots to talk about, lots of 'what I would do' chit-chat. I dug the stuff where Rick was displaying he was still attached to his old life (she gave him a replacement watch ... well, two thirds of one ... and his story about Lori's sucky pancakes), and that the memories were important (it's important to maintain those memories to help guide you, as best as can be reasonably expected, in this horrific new world) ... meanwhile Carol was very quick to write things off, or just forget about them, or portion them to some other person who no longer exists. However, I do think her old self is still in there - she did roll a couple of tears when she was cut loose by Rick, but she once again had to force herself into 'dealing with it' mode. Yeah ... being a leader in the apocalypse would suck. I'd rather be a right hand man or a wise old sage. What about you lot? I'm also digging seeing new parts of this world - the Big Spot, the garage overgrown with kudzu, the medical school, the abandoned homes etc. It's good to get out of the prison as much as possible during this season, we want to kind of miss it, we don't want to get tired of it, so I think they're very mindful of that and doing a good job so far.

[babomb]

Really? I can't completely agree with your assessment of Rick's comic character.   In the comics....I thought he handled the cannibals like a bad ass.....The finger pointing like a gun and having Andrea blow dude's left ear off on command....Like a Boss! Sure he stumbles and makes mistakes as a leader but what human being doesn't have weaknesses or faults? Also, I don't feel that Rick chose the role of being a leader....It's more of the group chose him. Once being picked....it's hard to stop wearing the shoes. Especially when everyone still turns to you as if you are still wearing them. He chose it back in season 1. Not by a vote or anything formal like that. It just sort of worked out that way. It would've been Shane if he didn't feel so guilty about bagging Ricks wife in the 1st few episodes. Rick was the Sheriff and Shane was just a deputy. So Shane stood down until he got sick of Rick and tried to stage a coup. So Rick chose it. Not by saying "I'm the leader", but he still chose it.

[Andy]

Yeah ... being a leader in the apocalypse would suck. I'd rather be a right hand man or a wise old sage. What about you lot? I'd be shane

[facestabber]

He chose it back in season 1. Not by a vote or anything formal like that. It just sort of worked out that way. It would've been Shane if he didn't feel so guilty about bagging Ricks wife in the 1st few episodes. Rick was the Sheriff and Shane was just a deputy. So Shane stood down until he got sick of Rick and tried to stage a coup. So Rick chose it. Not by saying "I'm the leader", but he still chose it. Rick didn't chose it. Previous poster was right. The group looked to him as a leader and he accepted the role. I think it was natural for people to see the uniform and naturally follow the lead. Police are more frequently put in high stress situations than average citizens and we are used to stepping up. People don't want to see a cop sit in the background. A question I have though is Rick actually the Sheriff of Lincoln county? He refers to himself as a Sheriffs Deputy which is not the same as sheriff. I've never met a sheriff refer to himself as a Deputy. It's always sheriff. Minion; I think my role would depend on the makeup of the group. I would prefer the right hand man role as well. Daryl's position would suit me well. Only I wouldn't be afraid to protest more against bad decisions. I wish Daryl would have called Rick a moron for contemplating turning over Michonne.

[babomb]

Rick didn't chose it. Previous poster was right. The group looked to him as a leader and he accepted the role. I think it was natural for people to see the uniform and naturally follow the lead. Police are more frequently put in high stress situations than average citizens and we are used to stepping up. People don't want to see a cop sit in the background. A question I have though is Rick actually the Sheriff of Lincoln county? He refers to himself as a Sheriffs Deputy which is not the same as sheriff. I've never met a sheriff refer to himself as a Deputy. It's always sheriff. Minion; I think my role would depend on the makeup of the group. I would prefer the right hand man role as well. Daryl's position would suit me well. Only I wouldn't be afraid to protest more against bad decisions. I wish Daryl would have called Rick a moron for contemplating turning over Michonne. It was the other way around. That's how leadership works. They looked to him as the leader because he assumed the role. He assumed the role 1st, which is why they saw him as leader material. When you take it upon yourself to be the one that makes decisions and solves problems, you are choosing a leadership posture. When the others accept you in that role, it seals the deal. Otherwise, they would've already chose someone else as leader before Rick got there. And then Rick would've had to compete for the leadership position. Rick showed up in a Sheriffs uniform. Of course they were gonna look to him for leadership. Before that Shane was leading by enforcing a strict operating procedure. Through keeping fires low, not running off on goose hunts that put others at risk. Shane was also a cop. When Rick showed up it caught Shane off guard. Shane had his superior, and best friend back, and had been screwing his wife. And he was the one that left Rick at the hospital. Shane was caught completely off guard by all this, and as a result he backed off of things. It wasn't like right when he showed up everyone said "The sheriffs here, he's our new leader" and Rick reluctantly said "Oh, ok". Rick chose to be leader through his actions. He was the superior officer of his town. He was already a leader. He fully understood the dynamics of leadership, and couldn't possibly have been unaware of what the result of his actions would be. People learn the dynamics of leadership at a very young age.

[facestabber]

Well Babomb since you are a Hall Red Devil and I, a Mendota Trojan, our destiny is to be bitter rivals. Hahahahah. Guess on this one we will have to agree to disagree. Or dust off the helmet and pads and battle at Nesti.

[shootemindehead]

I'd be shane You'd be Carol

[Ragnarr]

Kind of neat that the TWD writers figured out an alternative way to have a main character "leave the show" other than the usual get munched on departure. Carol may be back or may not, OR this could be another "where's Sophia" type of story arc. With regards to Rick's decision, I think he knew that he wouldn't be able to not tell the group about what Carol did and also knew Ty would strangle her to death when he found out. At the very least it would split the group into a pro-Carol/anti-Carol fight. Overall, I'll be glad when the characters get back to exploring and finally leave the prison. Maybe find a shopping mall to hangout at for awhile as a tip-O-d'hat to Dawn of the Dead! ;)

[babomb]

Well Babomb since you are a Hall Red Devil and I, a Mendota Trojan, our destiny is to be bitter rivals. Hahahahah. Guess on this one we will have to agree to disagree. Or dust off the helmet and pads and battle at Nesti. All I'm saying is that people don't arbitrarily choose someone as a leader just because they want a leader. People follow those who demonstrate leadership qualities. By demonstrating leadership qualities, you make the choice to be seen as a leader. And it's a choice like any other. In the case of Rick, it's an unspoken choice. He didn't ask to be leader. But that's how leaders always come to be, outside of organized structure. In the case of sports, military, or other hierarchical groups, people strive to become or campaign to become leaders. But we're talking about a group of civilian survivors. No votes or campaigns are held. If you choose not to be a leader, then you accept the role of follower. It's that simple. If there's another way to look at it, I'd like to know what it is. Honestly, I don't understand how it can be any other way.

[Harleydude666]

Friend of mine just came up with a interesting theory, he thinks the governor will show up at the prison holding carol hostage.. Ummm, hmmmm, I'm gonna say that's really not a stretch. Tell him to try another.

[zombieparanoia]

So should someone at the prison now go on a rampage through the "sick ward" and kill everyone in it, including Glenn and Hershel? The ones who are assessed as imminently dying, yes There is hershel and the expendable doctor in there right now, they could triage the sick and isolate those who seem to be about to die and take care of the problem. Or would you rather let a single walker or two tear into an entire ward of sick and maybe recovering people who are simply incapacitated with the illness? - - - Updated - - - Really? I can't completely agree with your assessment of Rick's comic character.   In the comics....I thought he handled the cannibals like a bad ass.....The finger pointing like a gun and having Andrea blow dude's left ear off on command....Like a Boss! Sure he stumbles and makes mistakes as a leader but what human being doesn't have weaknesses or faults? Also, I don't feel that Rick chose the role of being a leader....It's more of the group chose him. Once being picked....it's hard to stop wearing the shoes. Especially when everyone still turns to you as if you are still wearing them. It's more his inconsistency, lets not forget that carl killed a kid in cold blood and only got a one month grounding with no gun privileges. Carol kills some people trying to protect the whole camp and he exiles her, effectively a death sentence, why? To protect carl and judith. He sees no problem with himself sentencing people to death, its only when its not his call that he gets all moralizing. the guys in the bar that he pretty much executed, the people in the crowd at woodbury that he fired on blindly, the crazy old dude in the cabin, the prisoner he killed with the machete and the other one that he trapped in the courtyard with walkers all around? he does not mind executing people, he just doesn't like other people doing it. I also wonder how daryl is going to take ricks singlehanded exile of carol?

[babomb]

So should someone at the prison now go on a rampage through the "sick ward" and kill everyone in it, including Glenn and Hershel? If that's what it takes to ensure the survival of the rest of the group, then yes. But, surely the day will be saved in some manner of speaking without having to take such action. Because this is TWD after all, and they go for drama not realism. And going by the rules of drama in the TWD universe, someone will return to the prison in the nick of time to save some of the sick folks. Not ALL of them, because that wouldn't be dramatic enough. So the main folks will be able to hold out longer than the more expendable ones. We may lose a mid-range character, like Sasha or one of the young sisters. But the main group will make it. Sure, they'll draw it out alot and try to make us think that everyone might not make it. But realistically people have been passing that illness around since long before even the 1st person showed symptoms. That illness would wipe out almost everyone in that prison. Except a couple people that were lucky enough to have very strong immune systems or people that just happened to be germiphobes and took precautions on a regular basis before they even knew there was a bug going around. And that vet school wouldn't have any anti-biotics left. It would've been cleared out by the staff and students for their own use, or by the state once they figured out there was an epidemic. Anything that was left would've been cleared by other scavengers long ago. Because it doesn't take a vet to know there's meds there. Addicts would've gone in and taken EVERYTHING left. Everything that looks like a drug. Every vial, every syringe, every pill and bottle. The only things left would possibly be experimental drugs or recalled drugs stored in a safe somewhere that only a few of the staff knew about. So anyone thinking rationally and realistically in that situation wouldn't wait to take action based on some remote chance that a vet school 50 miles away has enough antibiotics to cure everyone. And then keep waiting for a group to return with the meds after such a long time. People that are survival oriented don't take those kinds of risks. They act quickly and harshly. Because when you're life is in immediate danger you don't have the time to get all philosophical about things. They would've setup a makeshift quarantine. Everyone exposed or showing any symptom even remotely risky would be in there. And nobody would be allowed in or out. Everyone not in quarantine would isolate themselves from each other for a little while and mentally prepare to lose those in quarantine. Anyone not sick that insists on being with a loved one in quarantine, stays in quarantine. There'd be no speeches like the one Herschel gave. That kind of stuff makes for good TV, but is not realistic.

[Neil]

They would've setup a makeshift quarantine. Everyone exposed or showing any symptom even remotely risky would be in there. And nobody would be allowed in or out. Everyone not in quarantine would isolate themselves from each other for a little while and mentally prepare to lose those in quarantine. Anyone not sick that insists on being with a loved one in quarantine, stays in quarantine. There'd be no speeches like the one Herschel gave. That kind of stuff makes for good TV, but is not realistic. I must admit I did roll my eyes a little bit at how lightly they took the quarantine issue. ie: Everyone should have stayed away from each other, and indeed groups should have stay away from other groups. Food and water should have been split up. And anyone showing any symptoms isolated.