TWD 6x16 "Last Day on Earth" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN*

[MinionZombie]

Paranoid101 - aye, good theory there, I think it holds a lot of water. My gripe was with how scared everyone was in this episode. They've been surviving a long time. Maggie and Carol strolled into that observatory and layed waste to everyone, slowly, methodically. They all faced off with the Gov and his tribe and won. Negan says right off the bat he doesn't want to kill them, he wants them to work. There's the path to salvation. Negan's gonna kill one, they know that. They should've all been staring Negan in the eye like Abraham did! With the observatory they had the drop of them - the baddies were fast asleep - even when it went pear shaped, the Saviours had lost several of their number and were scrambling and unawares. The face off(s) with The Governor - in the season 3 finale they knew it was coming, they were prepared and had fortified positions to boot. However, when it came to The Governor's return they were caught with their trousers down, Hershel was decapitated, they lost their homes, they were split apart, it was absolute chaos. It was a considerable low point - their lowest ebb up to that point. With Negan - well, yes, he does say he doesn't want to kill them all ... but it doesn't necessarily mean he definitely won't kill more than one of them. They're dealing with a psychopath here. But they're terrified because they have survived and come out the victor every time beforehand - now they've come up against a force of considerable size, skill, and viciousness. They're at the end of a very, very long day throughout which they've been cut off at every turn. They've become scared and desperate - and it's at that point they're captured. I'd be shitting myself in the same situation, too - they were completely overwhelmed by the Saviour's numbers. Plus there's the tension of someone is going to get killed, who will it be, and of course Team Rick don't want to lose anyone - it could be someone they love dearly, more than anyone else, so that's a terrible place to be.

[JDP]

Do they not know that Team Rick has an RPG? Some of their men were blown to smithereens in 6x09 - at the time they didn't know it was Team Rick, but now they do - and there's only so many ways you could blow up a gang of bikers with the drop on you. They might not know specifically they have an RPG in their possession, but something like it, or some kind of explosives. The Saviors know that those biker guys were killed, but they don't know what exactly happened. Carol explains what happened with the Savior bikers to those Saviors who were keeping her and Maggie captive, and one of them said something like "well, that explains who killed them". So far the Saviors have had no explanation about what exactly happened on that road, and the people who could have informed them of who was responsible for their deaths were also killed (none of those Saviors who captured Maggie and Carol survived), so the Saviors are still a bit in the blind regarding this. They might suspect the Alexandrians had something to do with it, but they have no proof that it was the Alexandrians who killed those Savior bikers. The fact that the Saviors do not build more protected roadblocks and arrogantly stand in groups right in front of the cars blocking the roads indicates that they still have no idea that the Alexandrians have RPGs and could deploy them against them. The tactic that Daryl used could have worked very well again, taking advantage of the fact that the Saviors do not expect an attack with RPGs.

[bassman]

I'm just pumped to see more of Jeffrey Dean Morgan as Negan next season. Phenomenal casting decision and he was just so much fun to watch. One of those bad guys that you somehow love but you know you shouldn't....

[MinionZombie]

I'm just pumped to see more of Jeffrey Dean Morgan as Negan next season. Phenomenal casting decision and he was just so much fun to watch. One of those bad guys that you somehow love but you know you shouldn't.... Bang on. Couldn't agree more. JDM ruled.

[Trin]

I was so-so on the episode. The cliffhanger was annoying but not really a deal breaker. I've been so-so on the season in general. Basically I'm tired of the writing. The show favors plot contrivances where the character actions are out of character, or the plot is implausible, to facilitate climactic moments and shock value. The finale wasn't bad. It was just more of the same. Examples: - Team Rick agreeing to slaughter the Saviors based on sketchy reasons and little information. - The infiltration of the Savior outpost was a poorly planned cluster that resulted in several fire-fights and NO friendly casualties. - Repeated instances of our best survivors getting surrounded and captured in the woods. - The "if Rick gets PO'd enough" zombie slaughter. - The cat and mouse game. One, I don't believe the Saviors could've orchestrated it. Two, I don't believe Team Rick would've drunkenly stumbled into it. Then there were things I just kinda didn't like: - The zombie parade. - Jesse's children. - The reappearance of zombie guts camo. - The Carol hyperventilating thing - worked the first time when it was obvious she was playing them. Now, just weird. For me the BIG missed opportunity was the zombie mass in Alexandria. The zombies outside the walls was epic. The tower crashing and breaching the walls was incredibly cool and scary, and very plausible. That event should've ushered in several incredibly tense episodes trying to deal with those zombies. But we got a 15 minute zombie slaughter whereby they completely marginalized the zombies. On the plus side, the season has not been dull. We've seen lots of varied locales and situations and we have tons of interesting character development. And for the most part the Alexandrians feel like a good, cohesive community (Jesse's offspring notwithstanding), which is a nice change from last season. The most interesting thing in the episode was the body armor guys that Morgan found. I'm really interested to see where that goes. I also hope they develop the Jesus character. I really liked him. As for the Saviors ... I feel pretty "blah" over the whole story arc. I have to believe it is better in the comics given the anticipation here. Negan was cool enough. But, really, if I were Negan I'd kill the entire RV crew. Team Rick *slaughtered* multiple groups of Saviors. His group is way too big a threat to leave intact to any extent. So I'm not going to stop watching. But I don't exactly live for the next episode either. That should be very concerning to AMC since I'm a huge zombie fan.

[MinionZombie]

For me the BIG missed opportunity was the zombie mass in Alexandria. The zombies outside the walls was epic. The tower crashing and breaching the walls was incredibly cool and scary, and very plausible. That event should've ushered in several incredibly tense episodes trying to deal with those zombies. But we got a 15 minute zombie slaughter whereby they completely marginalized the zombies. IIRC, Nicotero - the director of the episode - had to cut two days of filming time in order to shoot it at night, as intended, to cover the costs of doing so. They are essentially making a movie in 8 to 10 days with every episode, so there are various production considerations to take into account. Frankly, it's astonishing they achieved what they did with 6x09 in an even tighter-than-usual production window, let alone in a normal number of production days. The whole point of that scene, in the show and the comics (where they likewise had a rapid montage of characters slashing away), was to show the birth of Alexandria as a cohesive fighting force when push came to shove. Since Rick arrived they've been brittle with open hostilities - Rick was almost expelled in the season 5 finale - and yet here, with this major threat all around them, they joined forces for the common good and fought side-by-side. That's the point of the scene, not to just show a bunch of zombies dying (which we see plenty of in that episode and in the show in general).

[facestabber]

I was so-so on the episode. The cliffhanger was annoying but not really a deal breaker. I've been so-so on the season in general. Basically I'm tired of the writing. The show favors plot contrivances where the character actions are out of character, or the plot is implausible, to facilitate climactic moments and shock value. The finale wasn't bad. It was just more of the same. Examples: - Team Rick agreeing to slaughter the Saviors based on sketchy reasons and little information. - The infiltration of the Savior outpost was a poorly planned cluster that resulted in several fire-fights and NO friendly casualties. - Repeated instances of our best survivors getting surrounded and captured in the woods. - The "if Rick gets PO'd enough" zombie slaughter. - The cat and mouse game. One, I don't believe the Saviors could've orchestrated it. Two, I don't believe Team Rick would've drunkenly stumbled into it. Then there were things I just kinda didn't like: - The zombie parade. - Jesse's children. - The reappearance of zombie guts camo. - The Carol hyperventilating thing - worked the first time when it was obvious she was playing them. Now, just weird. For me the BIG missed opportunity was the zombie mass in Alexandria. The zombies outside the walls was epic. The tower crashing and breaching the walls was incredibly cool and scary, and very plausible. That event should've ushered in several incredibly tense episodes trying to deal with those zombies. But we got a 15 minute zombie slaughter whereby they completely marginalized the zombies. On the plus side, the season has not been dull. We've seen lots of varied locales and situations and we have tons of interesting character development. And for the most part the Alexandrians feel like a good, cohesive community (Jesse's offspring notwithstanding), which is a nice change from last season. The most interesting thing in the episode was the body armor guys that Morgan found. I'm really interested to see where that goes. I also hope they develop the Jesus character. I really liked him. As for the Saviors ... I feel pretty "blah" over the whole story arc. I have to believe it is better in the comics given the anticipation here. Negan was cool enough. But, really, if I were Negan I'd kill the entire RV crew. Team Rick *slaughtered* multiple groups of Saviors. His group is way too big a threat to leave intact to any extent. So I'm not going to stop watching. But I don't exactly live for the next episode either. That should be very concerning to AMC since I'm a huge zombie fan. All good concerns. I'm tired of surprise ninja zombies and the surrounded in the woods scenes you described above. Michonne and Daryl are far too skilled for that IMO. Now Daryl was blinded by rage on this last one but still he has great skills. Dwight and his gang weren't covered in camo. They were wearing dark colors which didn't blend in that environment at all. I'm still watching but my excitement isn't at its peak.

[AcesandEights]

I was so-so on the episode. The cliffhanger was annoying but not really a deal breaker. I've been so-so on the season in general. Basically I'm tired of the writing. The show favors plot contrivances where the character actions are out of character, or the plot is implausible, to facilitate climactic moments and shock value. The finale wasn't bad. It was just more of the same. Examples: - Team Rick agreeing to slaughter the Saviors based on sketchy reasons and little information. - The infiltration of the Savior outpost was a poorly planned cluster that resulted in several fire-fights and NO friendly casualties. - Repeated instances of our best survivors getting surrounded and captured in the woods. - The "if Rick gets PO'd enough" zombie slaughter. - The cat and mouse game. One, I don't believe the Saviors could've orchestrated it. Two, I don't believe Team Rick would've drunkenly stumbled into it. Then there were things I just kinda didn't like: - The zombie parade. - Jesse's children. - The reappearance of zombie guts camo. - The Carol hyperventilating thing - worked the first time when it was obvious she was playing them. Now, just weird. For me the BIG missed opportunity was the zombie mass in Alexandria. The zombies outside the walls was epic. The tower crashing and breaching the walls was incredibly cool and scary, and very plausible. That event should've ushered in several incredibly tense episodes trying to deal with those zombies. But we got a 15 minute zombie slaughter whereby they completely marginalized the zombies. On the plus side, the season has not been dull. We've seen lots of varied locales and situations and we have tons of interesting character development. And for the most part the Alexandrians feel like a good, cohesive community (Jesse's offspring notwithstanding), which is a nice change from last season. The most interesting thing in the episode was the body armor guys that Morgan found. I'm really interested to see where that goes. I also hope they develop the Jesus character. I really liked him. As for the Saviors ... I feel pretty "blah" over the whole story arc. I have to believe it is better in the comics given the anticipation here. Negan was cool enough. But, really, if I were Negan I'd kill the entire RV crew. Team Rick *slaughtered* multiple groups of Saviors. His group is way too big a threat to leave intact to any extent. So I'm not going to stop watching. But I don't exactly live for the next episode either. That should be very concerning to AMC since I'm a huge zombie fan. I agree with Facestabber, Trin...a pretty solid list you've come up with, though some of the things don't bother me so much (Zombie Parade was nice, for my money), but the gutless writing, go-nowhere aspect of the filler episodes and that pathetic finale were horrible. Still a decent season, with some very strong and well paced episodes interspersed with some formless, half-baked pap. - - - Updated - - - Not a bad episode for the most part. Shootem...who has gotten to you and paid you off?! The Shootem I know would have a pitchfork in hand and hyperbole in mouth, ready to raise the masses to pillory this crap. Instead you give this garbage finale a pass? Say it ain't so...

[MinionZombie]

that pathetic finale this crap. this garbage finale Where's my pitchfork?

[shootemindehead]

Shootem...who has gotten to you and paid you off?! The Shootem I know would have a pitchfork in hand and hyperbole in mouth, ready to raise the masses to pillory this crap. Instead you give this garbage finale a pass? Say it ain't so... I ain't sayin nuthin'! I don't need anyones stinking money... *carefully folds cheque and puts it in pocket*

[kidgloves]

The finale told me that they have NO interest whatsoever in story. If they think they can get away with killing a minor character in the season 7 premiere I'm done. I know that all sounds ridiculously like a drama queen but it's the only way I know how to articulate my feelings towards this show. The zombies are freaking awesome but it's never been about them. The cliffhanger should have been everyone's reaction and what's going to happen next after Negan brutally kills a beloved character

[Wyldwraith]

My big gripe of late with TWD is simple, It feels like they (the collective decision-makers behind the show) feel as if they've "gotten too big to fail." IF Minion is right, and the cliffhanger was a poorly thought-out decision, then why was Gimple defending it as NOT being a cliffhanger at all? Answer: (IMHO) They knew the reaction they'd elicit, but figured they'd gain more than they'd lose. That the interest in what actually went down would remain into next season, while the teeth-gnashing would be short-lived and ultimately inconsequential. Now, if they're actually thinking like that then TWD may be in for some really bad times.

[zomtom]

My big gripe of late with TWD is simple, It feels like they (the collective decision-makers behind the show) feel as if they've "gotten too big to fail." IF Minion is right, and the cliffhanger was a poorly thought-out decision, then why was Gimple defending it as NOT being a cliffhanger at all? Answer: (IMHO) They knew the reaction they'd elicit, but figured they'd gain more than they'd lose. That the interest in what actually went down would remain into next season, while the teeth-gnashing would be short-lived and ultimately inconsequential. Now, if they're actually thinking like that then TWD may be in for some really bad times. I could not agree with your statement more. One of my first thoughts after the finale was that Gimple, Kirkman and the writers have all gotten too big for their britches. This of course was after my initial reaction of wanting to throw something at my television. I can't help but feel this crowd thinks they can do no wrong because of their great ratings. They're toying with their fans and they should be careful because it can and probably will come back and bite them in the ass next season. I for one will be back in October but quite honestly, I don't care who Negan's victim is. I did care during the finale but something "clicked" in me at the end. They toyed with me too much and I just don't care which character buys it. I really hope their ratings don't go down but I have been coming across too many people who no longer watch. Gimple and the writers should not take their fans for granted. No show lasts forever. Good to see you back, Wyld.

[Trin]

I'm kinda digging FTWD. It's the family man's TWD. I have a wife and 3 boys and Fear is a bit more relatable than TWD. The struggles are more akin to what I'd expect and the decisions make more sense. It's a fresh and enjoyable perspective on the fall of society. Why am I posting that here? Because watching Fear has put into perspective my malaise with TWD. I spent the entire season knowing the group was going to meet with hard times with the Saviors and Negan/Lucille and that a regular would be off'd. So the only mystery has been in the execution. Considering I thought the execution was so-so it has been a bit of a slog. I enjoyed some of the smaller plotlines and reveals, but basically I spent the latter half the season just wanting them to get it over with. And then they didn't even do that. At this point I simply don't care who they kill. Negan would be foolish to leave any of them alive and if he's smart Alexandria never overcomes the Saviors. Given that I expect Negan will leave most of them alive and Team Rick will prevail somehow, I anticipate next season will be a big dose of WTF. About all I'm hoping for is that something comes out of left-field to sway the advantage back to Team Rick without portraying Negan as a complete idiot. That seems hard to imagine, but it is possible. My point is... I'm digging Fear.

[facestabber]

My big gripe of late with TWD is simple, It feels like they (the collective decision-makers behind the show) feel as if they've "gotten too big to fail." IF Minion is right, and the cliffhanger was a poorly thought-out decision, then why was Gimple defending it as NOT being a cliffhanger at all? Answer: (IMHO) They knew the reaction they'd elicit, but figured they'd gain more than they'd lose. That the interest in what actually went down would remain into next season, while the teeth-gnashing would be short-lived and ultimately inconsequential. Now, if they're actually thinking like that then TWD may be in for some really bad times. Whats up Wylde? Youre probably right with your opinion. That's why Gimple was on Talking to start damage control. IMO I don't think Gimple fully realized how deep the anger would go. People are pissed off, myself included. The impact would have been far greater if we saw the death and the despair on our team as Negan walked away with his "ta ta" Depending on spoiler leaks I think 07-01 will have huge ratings, but if they dont deliver in that episode a decline will start.