post-apocalyptic govt...

[Publius]

I'm not proposing we TAKE and KEEP. We SHARE and REBUILD. If you see "evil" or "communism" in that then I can't be bothered to talk with you on this matter. Have you considered the difficulty, if you're holed up in a farmhouse with your family and a few neighbors and a bunch of supplies, of telling the difference between a group of strangers who want you to give them your stuff so they can TAKE and KEEP it and a group of strangers who want you to give them your stuff so they can SHARE and REBUILD? The easiest way to distinguish between the bandits and the benevolent communitarians is whether they say "hand it over OR ELSE!" Scrap this crazy system of government where no significant legislation ever gets passed and our elected officials break the law with impunity. From my perspective, the less "significant legislation" the politicians manage to dump on us, the better.

[Trencher]

Today Tibet is occupied by China and is integrated into Chinese society. They still obey the same feudal structure as 50 years ago, so I'd probably still say China. So what do you think? Is China or Tibet the more moral state? Or the most sucksessfull post invasion?

[EvilNed]

So what do you think? Is China or Tibet the more moral state? Or the most sucksessfull post invasion? Back then? They were both immoral and depraved societies. Today? Well, call me crazy, but Tibet is undeniably kind of integrated by now, and has a very small population. It's like asking which is more moral: The USA or the State of Maine. Have you considered the difficulty, if you're holed up in a farmhouse with your family and a few neighbors and a bunch of supplies, of telling the difference between a group of strangers who want you to give them your stuff so they can TAKE and KEEP it and a group of strangers who want you to give them your stuff so they can SHARE and REBUILD? The easiest way to distinguish between the bandits and the benevolent communitarians is whether they say "hand it over OR ELSE!" It's not like it would be our business to roam around the countryside to steal stuff just because. That's not very productive rebuilding, is it? But if, somehow, we had barricaded up the entire city of Whatever and had thousands of citizens living in there, and inside that city there were people sitting on agriculture equipment they would not share others with, because they simply considered it "their property", what would YOU do? We share out stuff with them, and they share their stuff with us. That's how simple it is, and together we survive. Given such a society, people would come to us, we would not come to them.

[Khardis]

Back then? They were both immoral and depraved societies. Today? Well, call me crazy, but Tibet is undeniably kind of integrated by now, and has a very small population. It's like asking which is more moral: The USA or the State of Maine. It's not like it would be our business to roam around the countryside to steal stuff just because. That's not very productive rebuilding, is it? But if, somehow, we had barricaded up the entire city of Whatever and had thousands of citizens living in there, and inside that city there were people sitting on agriculture equipment they would not share others with, because they simply considered it "their property", what would YOU do? We share out stuff with them, and they share their stuff with us. That's how simple it is, and together we survive. Given such a society, people would come to us, we would not come to them. is the guy with the ag-equptment producing food or anything with it?

[EvilNed]

is the guy with the ag-equptment producing food or anything with it? Not enough food.

[Khardis]

Not enough food. In such a case if i was starving and he was making food for his family only with it, I would probably steal or kill him for it. But then I would kill anyone who tried to take it from me too.

[Trencher]

It's like asking which is more moral: The USA or the State of Maine. The hell? The people of the state of maine are not killed by the boatload if they dare question the state. Live ammo is not used on protestors in Maine. And Maine is not under milltary occupation, with armoured venchiles patrolling the streets looking for "troublemakers". If you want to discuss this further I suggest you open up a seperate thread. My point about China and Tibet is that what is sucksessful is not necesary moral. In such a case if i was starving and he was making food for his family only with it, I would probably steal or kill him for it. But then I would kill anyone who tried to take it from me too. It is refreshing with such honesty, but as I tried to tell you in the post you did not answer to above (hint-hint) that would kill your family in the long run.

[Khardis]

The hell? The people of the state of maine are not killed by the boatload if they dare question the state. Live ammo is not used on protestors in Maine. And Maine is not under milltary occupation, with armoured venchiles patrolling the streets looking for "troublemakers". If you want to discuss this further I suggest you open up a seperate thread. My point about China and Tibet is that what is sucksessful is not necesary moral. It is refreshing with such honesty, but as I tried to tell you in the post you did not answer to above (hint-hint) that would kill your family in the long run. Thats what you think, I would be prepared to kill anyone who tried to **** with us from there. Start a new Spartan community.

[Wooley]

With each post in this thread, Khardis shows himself to be a disgusting, worthless creature, not even human, but rather a foul thing who will in the end ensure the death of himself and those he says he cares for. Why would survivors spare food or manpower to guard and feed captured raiders when they could simply wipe them out utterly upon capture? Rabid dogs get put down, boy. Remember that. Likewise, treat others as you'd have them treat you isn't weakness, it's the basis for any functional human society. Never did say how you'd deal with the booby trapped material or poisoned food left by those you'd rob or kill, did you dick skinner? You are morally bankrupt, but I doubt you know the first thing about searching for and dealing with such devices, and that's going to bite you in the ass.

[Khardis]

With each post in this thread, Khardis shows himself to be a disgusting, worthless creature, not even human, but rather a foul thing who will in the end ensure the death of himself and those he says he cares for. Why would survivors spare food or manpower to guard and feed captured raiders when they could simply wipe them out utterly upon capture? Rabid dogs get put down, boy. Remember that. Likewise, treat others as you'd have them treat you isn't weakness, it's the basis for any functional human society. Never did say how you'd deal with the booby trapped material or poisoned food left by those you'd rob or kill, did you dick skinner? You are morally bankrupt, but I doubt you know the first thing about searching for and dealing with such devices, and that's going to bite you in the ass. lol you are cute when you try to talk tough. Don't worry I wouldn't steal anything from you, I would feed you to the zeds and watch for sport. ANd how would I deal with all your booby traps? What booby traps? Youll be barricaded up somewhere, not living in some military fortress. Youre going to make a pungee trap? OK good for you I will make sure to set your house and garden on fire then and burn down your cover and let the zeds finish you off. Its much easier to loot a corpse than a person who is alive. The funny thing about dishonest moral weasels is that they tend to be the 1st ones to go nuts and wipe everyone out thats friendly toward them and betray their loved ones. You can talk a big game now but when the SHTF you would be just as greedy and selfish as anyone else if not more so. The only difference is that I wouldn't judge you for it because its natural reaction. You Mr High horse though can suffer in the knowledge that you would rat backstab everyone to survive, wether you want to believe it or make pretend is irrelevant.

[capncnut]

Never did say how you'd deal with the booby trapped material or poisoned food left by those you'd rob or kill, did you dick skinner? lol you are cute when you try to talk tough. Let's keep this civil please.

[Trencher]

Thats what you think, I would be prepared to kill anyone who tried to **** with us from there. Start a new Spartan community. Why not just start there then? I know I am nagging you but I just feel that you are trapped in this "I has to do this" mindset. You dont have to do anything.

[strayrider]

Let's keep this civil please. Yeah, let's keep it civil. We can disagree on issues without calling one another "dick skinners". LOL. The funny thing with the Khardis/Wooley debate is that both are, based on what I've read in past posts on various topics over the last few years, right-wingers. So, as a right-winger (with a mild lefty twist) I'm wondering how we can put our disagreements aside and get to setting up a workable government in a post-apocalypse world. At this point Scipio in his initial post has come up with the best idea. (of course, if we banish Khardis from our enclave, he might return a few years later at the head of an armored column.) -stray-

[Mike70]

So, as a right-winger (with a mild lefty twist) I'm wondering how we can put our disagreements aside and get to setting up a workable government in a post-apocalypse world. frankly man, at this point i am glad i live hundreds of miles away from most of the rest of you. now what was this thread about again?? oh yeah, what kind of society you'd set up or what kind do you think would emerge. i've heard precious little about that in the last few pages of this thread...

[strayrider]

what kind would you want to see set up? me i'd go for a style of govt. based on the roman republic with elements of athens thrown in (big surprise huh?). a. an assembly of all the people 17 and over would have legislative power. b. two people would be elected for one year terms as sort of "chief executives." no one could hold this office for consecutive terms nor be re-elected within any 10 year period. c. a council would also be elected by the assembly to terms of one year to handle to the day to day things that would need to be tended to. d. everybody fights. everyone. if are 17 and over and capable of pointing a gun in the right direction, you fight. no exceptions other than for medical reasons. e. the only penalties for serious criminal activity would be either death or exile. these are just a few ideas. i might add more as time goes by. A: An assembly of people 28 and over would have legislative power. B: Three persons would be elected to one year terms and could be re-elected unto death. C: a: Scipio, Publius, and myself appointed first Governor(s) (elections held thereafter). b: Wooley appointed as Minister of Defense and Emergency Preparation. c: Khardis appointed as Commander of Expedition and Salvage. d: Cap'n Knut appointed as Territorial Marshal. e: Kaos appointed as court jester and pan pipe player (dressed like John Amplas in Knightriders ... "Blow, man, blow!"). D: If you are 13 or older and capable of being trained and following orders, you fight. If not, you are GONE. The only exceptions to this rule are to be applied to those disabled while in service to the Community. E: Agreed. F: All persons 13 and over not required for defense purposes will work for the common good. G: Any person voting against any candidate for enforcing the above mentioned rules ... GONE. -stray-