TWD Season 11-B & 11-C discussion... **ROLLING SPOILERS**

[MinionZombie]

Strand and Alicia are indeed terribly written characters, flip-flopping from one vague motivation to the next, their attitudes and allegiences varying wildly in a way that suggests the writers have no idea what they're doing - the total lack of any mere sense of consistency is stark. I can't even remember how the latest Fear season ended, so it can't have been that great ... what happened again? Also, yes, Alicia's weapons have been fantastically frustrating. It was all the more galling as Alicia seemingly had to amputate her own arm by herself with no help or anaesthetic in a small dirty tunnel ... I mean ... really? I know there's zombies walking about, but come on now. If you're going to get hopped-up on radiation sickness, then at least not do that bullshit with Alicia. I was so hoping she'd get killed off finally, but no...

[JDP]

Yeh, yeh...you keep going there Eeyore. . By hurling ad hominem insulting remarks you are only further admitting that you just don't have any valid arguments, so by all means continue.

[Suicycho]

My biggest problem with the money situation from Land is why didn’t Cholo and other scavengers simply loot abandoned money while they were out in the wastelands? I’m sure there was plenty of it to be found. It would have been more credible if they had printed a brand new currency that all the other outposts used amongst themselves rather than old US currency. I haven’t paid too close attention to the commonwealth currency. Have they switched to a new one or still using US money? - - - Updated - - - Strand and Alicia are indeed terribly written characters, flip-flopping from one vague motivation to the next, their attitudes and allegiences varying wildly in a way that suggests the writers have no idea what they're doing - the total lack of any mere sense of consistency is stark. I can't even remember how the latest Fear season ended, so it can't have been that great ... what happened again? Also, yes, Alicia's weapons have been fantastically frustrating. It was all the more galling as Alicia seemingly had to amputate her own arm by herself with no help or anaesthetic in a small dirty tunnel ... I mean ... really? I know there's zombies walking about, but come on now. If you're going to get hopped-up on radiation sickness, then at least not do that bullshit with Alicia. I was so hoping she'd get killed off finally, but no... A good argument could be made that Alicia did die. She looked really clean and fresh when she got up. If she was still alive she would have looked like shit even if the infection passed. But then again it’s probably just on par with most of Fears nonsense.

[shootemindehead]

Strand and Alicia are indeed terribly written characters, flip-flopping from one vague motivation to the next, their attitudes and allegiences varying wildly in a way that suggests the writers have no idea what they're doing - the total lack of any mere sense of consistency is stark. Aye. Stand, particularly, who has been one way, then the other, then back again, then over the other way. It's been nuts. He went ally to primary antagonist and for no real reason either. A guy that had your back to a guy that chucked people off of a roof for little or nothing. There's just been no sense to it. I can't even remember how the latest Fear season ended, so it can't have been that great ... what happened again? It ends with the return of Madison, who's been eking out a living by kidnapping kids for PADRE who I, assume, are some sort of "Commonwealth" type organisation trying to secure some sort of future by using the most foul ends? She bumps into Morgan, who's been carrying around this really annoying kid that does nothing but cry all the bleedin time. Frankly, I'd have let Maddy have her. So, I'm kinda interested in seeing where that goes now. Whereas, with the previous episode, I was done with the show completely. Also, yes, Alicia's weapons have been fantastically frustrating. It was all the more galling as Alicia seemingly had to amputate her own arm by herself with no help or anaesthetic in a small dirty tunnel ... I mean ... really? I know there's zombies walking about, but come on now. If you're going to get hopped-up on radiation sickness, then at least not do that bullshit with Alicia. I was so hoping she'd get killed off finally, but no... Yeah, Alicia should have kicked the bucket. Although that should have happened a long time ago. But then that's been one of the primary problems with FTWD. The terrible characters linger and the good ones get whacked easily. However the actual surgical part of the amputation was carried out by someone else, I think she just hacked off the bitten part with that stupid gun barrel? All of it's a shame really, cos FTWD could be quite good, if they could get some decent writers on the case. But, TBH, you could say that about most shows that are produced these days. Seems to me that writers merely have to churn out "content" and not worry to much about things not adding up that well. - - - Updated - - - My biggest problem with the money situation from Land is why didn’t Cholo and other scavengers simply loot abandoned money while they were out in the wastelands? I’m sure there was plenty of it to be found. It's three years into the apocalypse and Land is after Night, Dawn and Day, so there's probably not a lot of cash floating around out there in the wasteland at that point? Maybe there has been some people who've struck it lucky. But then how do you go about spending that wonga back at Fiddler's without somebody noticing something fishy? The only folk who are knocking around outside the confines of the city walls are poorer than the wealthy lot that are holed up in the tower block living the life of Riley. It would have been more credible if they had printed a brand new currency that all the other outposts used amongst themselves rather than old US currency. Maybe they were? Do we get to see an actual dollar. I dunno. It could have Kauffman's face on it. I haven’t paid too close attention to the commonwealth currency. Have they switched to a new one or still using US money? Can't say I've noticed myself. A good argument could be made that Alicia did die. She looked really clean and fresh when she got up. If she was still alive she would have looked like shit even if the infection passed. But then again it’s probably just on par with most of Fears nonsense. Hmmm, that's what I thought they did. When she stood up talking to her younger self (fkn 'ell ) I thought she was brown bread and the show was giving her some sort of fantasy farewell. But I think she just survived.

[JDP]

My biggest problem with the money situation from Land is why didn’t Cholo and other scavengers simply loot abandoned money while they were out in the wastelands? I’m sure there was plenty of it to be found. We in fact see the gang of biker looters in Dawn do just that in the mall. Obviously money still has value when the events of Dawn and Land are happening, otherwise we shouldn't expect people to still very keenly seek to possess it. By the obviously more "decayed" time of the events in Day, money is just more debris and garbage on the streets that nobody still left around bothers with anymore. It is no longer an issue. - - - Updated - - - It would have been more credible if they had printed a brand new currency that all the other outposts used amongst themselves rather than old US currency. Too much trouble, it would be easier and more practical to just continue using currency that is still around. Recall that the outposts are in fact being established at a time when even the media is still around to report such events. There is no need to come up with a new currency, just appropriate as much as possible of the currency that is still around. As long as it is still accepted as a means of exchange, you need not bother with having to print a whole new currency.

[MinionZombie]

It ends with the return of Madison, who's been eking out a living by kidnapping kids for PADRE who I, assume, are some sort of "Commonwealth" type organisation trying to secure some sort of future by using the most foul ends? She bumps into Morgan, who's been carrying around this really annoying kid that does nothing but cry all the bleedin time. Frankly, I'd have let Maddy have her. So, I'm kinda interested in seeing where that goes now. Whereas, with the previous episode, I was done with the show completely. Ah, now I (kinda) remember ... yeah, another sucky bit of character work with Madison there, too. Doing things she simply would never have done, and zero explanation of how she survived her 'death' at that safe zone years ago (one of many half-assed lame-o safe zones introduced and quickly taken down by FearTWD). It's always got to be the most obviously despicable method in these cases, doesn't it? Not even a case of 'one parent with one child' type of situation, so you could still write in some sort of 'one parent had to stay behind' storyline. They always make these bigger ZA organisations these cackling moustache twirlers with the self-awareness of Lizz Truss (i.e. zero). Yeah, Alicia should have kicked the bucket. Although that should have happened a long time ago. But then that's been one of the primary problems with FTWD. The terrible characters linger and the good ones get whacked easily. When she was painting fucking trees I was soooooooooooooooooo ready for her to be bumped off. I despised that waste of time boring-as-paint-drying (suitably enough) subplot. Moronic. John Dorie was a great character and helped rejuvenate FearTWD for me when he was introduced in season four, but then everything went back to normal naffness around him and he was up to his neck in shite. The actor wisely chose to bow out and do something else - including "Sprung" on FreeVee (which was quite enjoyable and reunited him with some of his Raising Hope chums). All of it's a shame really, cos FTWD could be quite good, if they could get some decent writers on the case. But, TBH, you could say that about most shows that are produced these days. Seems to me that writers merely have to churn out "content" and not worry to much about things not adding up that well. There's a dearth of "good" writers in the industry, and swathes of bad writers churning out 'content', as you say. Disney has faced this in particular with its Marvel shows and the likes of Obi-Wan Kenobi. They need it now and they don't care if it's in an utter mess that destroys characters, story continuity, or straight-up insults the fanbase at every turn (*cough* She-Hulk *cough*). If they'd actually look beyond their postcode they'd find all sorts of talented writers who aren't able to break through the closed shop doors of the industry. The only folk who are knocking around outside the confines of the city walls are poorer than the wealthy lot that are holed up in the tower block living the life of Riley. Ironically enough.

[shootemindehead]

Ah, now I (kinda) remember ... yeah, another sucky bit of character work with Madison there, too. Doing things she simply would never have done, and zero explanation of how she survived her 'death' at that safe zone years ago (one of many half-assed lame-o safe zones introduced and quickly taken down by FearTWD). It's always got to be the most obviously despicable method in these cases, doesn't it? Not even a case of 'one parent with one child' type of situation, so you could still write in some sort of 'one parent had to stay behind' storyline. They always make these bigger ZA organisations these cackling moustache twirlers with the self-awareness of Lizz Truss (i.e. zero). LOL, Liz Truss. Fuck me your country is in a state...but that's another story. Anyhoo...yeh, I would have liked some detail about how Madison Square Gardens got out of the stadium alright. Maybe we'll get something in S08 if I'm still arsed to watch. As for her motives, I guess PADRE has offered her something, other than oxygen to help with her COPD. She says a line in the episode that kinda acts a justification for her deeds as in the parents of these kids are struggling and failing to mind them and she's convinced herself that PADRE will do a better job. But we've yet to actually see PADRE, so we have no idea what the setup there is. It could be a solution but, more than likely, it'll be yet another antagonistic organisation because that's what both TWD and FTWD are mired in. I mean the flagship show has been basically repeating the same storyline for years now. As for 1 parent, 1 child, sure that might have worked better. But it would be less dramatic I spose. Plus, there could loads of wannabe parents already waiting in PADRE. When she was painting fucking trees I was soooooooooooooooooo ready for her to be bumped off. I despised that waste of time boring-as-paint-drying (suitably enough) subplot. Moronic. John Dorie was a great character and helped rejuvenate FearTWD for me when he was introduced in season four, but then everything went back to normal naffness around him and he was up to his neck in shite. The actor wisely chose to bow out and do something else - including "Sprung" on FreeVee (which was quite enjoyable and reunited him with some of his Raising Hope chums). Oh that painting trees shit, WTF was that all about? And yer man Wes with his baloney too. Agree with John Dorie, I liked him and whatshername and the more contained story with them pair actually had me more interested in FTWD than the main show which took a serious dip in quality. But FTWD has these issues with getting rid of good characters, or have good actors leave. It's funny, though, that Coleman Domingo had to fight to get Kim Dickens back making the producers realise their idiot move to get rid of her in the first place. Amazingly short sighted that. There's a dearth of "good" writers in the industry, and swathes of bad writers churning out 'content', as you say. Disney has faced this in particular with its Marvel shows and the likes of Obi-Wan Kenobi. They need it now and they don't care if it's in an utter mess that destroys characters, story continuity, or straight-up insults the fanbase at every turn (*cough* She-Hulk *cough*). If they'd actually look beyond their postcode they'd find all sorts of talented writers who aren't able to break through the closed shop doors of the industry. Haven't watched a single Marvel show. That whole mess of nonsense is just not my thing and I think the last decade or so of Marvel crap has gone a long way to forging the poor state of visual entertainment that exists today. As for 'Kenobi' or whatever it was called, that was astonishing in its ineptitude. But I, personally, think a lot of that was down to studio interference and a desire to tick boxes and chuck in some fan service as an alternative to logically written characters and scenarios. I think another issue is that a lot of this stuff will never see any permanent state, as in a Blu Ray release. It'll remain "in the cloud" until it's forgotten by everyone. So, it all doesn't matter in the end. I think I read that 'Rings of Power' won't be getting a Blu release, for instance. Not that that matters, because right there is a show that is everything everyone needs to see in order to understand just how poor writing have become on these TV shows. I finished out S01 and my god, is that a bad, bad, show.

[Moon Knight]

I’m done with FTWD. Didn’t even finish the last two episodes once I found out Alicia was leaving the show, yet, wasn’t killed off of course. Between the butchering of Strand and Daniel, I have lost complete interest. Reading all of the above posts about Fear reminded me why I dropped that show.

[MinionZombie]

Anyhoo...yeh, I would have liked some detail about how Madison Square Gardens got out of the stadium alright. Maybe we'll get something in S08 if I'm still arsed to watch. As for her motives, I guess PADRE has offered her something, other than oxygen to help with her COPD. She says a line in the episode that kinda acts a justification for her deeds as in the parents of these kids are struggling and failing to mind them and she's convinced herself that PADRE will do a better job. But we've yet to actually see PADRE, so we have no idea what the setup there is. It could be a solution but, more than likely, it'll be yet another antagonistic organisation because that's what both TWD and FTWD are mired in. I mean the flagship show has been basically repeating the same storyline for years now. As for 1 parent, 1 child, sure that might have worked better. But it would be less dramatic I spose. Plus, there could loads of wannabe parents already waiting in PADRE. 1) "Madison Square Gardens" - 2) It's still daft to be kidnapping kids from their parents. As an organisation you're just stoking up enemies (when you've already got plenty of dead folks walking around to be worried about, and nuclear clouds wafting about the place like a fart in a lift). Take the parent as well. I know what you mean about it being 'less dramatic', but even still, it logistically doesn't make a huge amount of sense. The parents are struggling because they're in the wasteland, not because they're bad parents. Surely taking kids out of parents' arms are going to do a boatload of psychological damage to said kids and that's not gonna help anyone. Sure, there could be a 'mouths to feed' issue, but if you're this large organisation then you're gonna have your shit together and be self-sufficient. Agree with John Dorie, I liked him and whatshername and the more contained story with them pair actually had me more interested in FTWD than the main show which took a serious dip in quality. But FTWD has these issues with getting rid of good characters, or have good actors leave. It's funny, though, that Coleman Domingo had to fight to get Kim Dickens back making the producers realise their idiot move to get rid of her in the first place. Amazingly short sighted that. Half the time I think it's the actors wanting out of their contracts, or not signing up for longer, or just requesting that they be let go. FearTWD has never felt in control of its own destiny at any point since the end of season one. It's been continually swept up in stormy seas, always scrabbling to write-out yet another actor who wants to escape the usually dreadful writing. Haven't watched a single Marvel show. That whole mess of nonsense is just not my thing and I think the last decade or so of Marvel crap has gone a long way to forging the poor state of visual entertainment that exists today. As for 'Kenobi' or whatever it was called, that was astonishing in its ineptitude. But I, personally, think a lot of that was down to studio interference and a desire to tick boxes and chuck in some fan service as an alternative to logically written characters and scenarios. I think another issue is that a lot of this stuff will never see any permanent state, as in a Blu Ray release. It'll remain "in the cloud" until it's forgotten by everyone. So, it all doesn't matter in the end. I think I read that 'Rings of Power' won't be getting a Blu release, for instance. Not that that matters, because right there is a show that is everything everyone needs to see in order to understand just how poor writing have become on these TV shows. I finished out S01 and my god, is that a bad, bad, show. 1) I've not watched any of the Marvel shows, either. Once I started seeing reviews (that aren't written by publications suckling the Disney teat to stay in business) and breakdowns of events in the shows it became clear how bad the writing was, how woeful the characterisations were, how preachy the storylines were getting. Seems to be a lot of 'bait and switch' going on (e.g. with Loki), as well as 'mystery boxes' galore, very bizarre morals (e.g. with WandaVision in particular). They quickly became very unappealing after initial interest. She-Hulk, from all I've read about it and all the clips I've seen (both of the show and the promotional material and interviews) has just been astonishingly bad ... I mean, boasting that you want to write a legal comedy but don't know how to do the legal stuff (and, honestly, the comedy either!). Seriously, boasting about your incompetence as a writer in the promotional material? Seriously? The problems with that show seem endless from all I've read/seen about it. The common theme also seems to be Disney makes a bad show and then blames the fans for not liking it, tossing around various ists and isms. Try making good stuff and people will dig it. However, we've been clogged-up with superheroes for ages now, so there's a real fatigue with it all setting-in now. 2) Rings of Power ... woof ... I'm glad I didn't watch it. Again, everything I saw leading up to its release was a total turn off, and seeing breakdowns and reviews of it (even from major publications who original praised the show ... for money, no doubt) have just shined a light on, yet again, awful writing being the key problem. If you don't have good writing, then you ain't got shit. When will they ever learn? It'd be a waste of time putting RoP on physical media as the interest seems so limited in the show. Forbes did a breakdown of some numbers and it seemed as if 'up to 95%' of Prime Video customers had 'little/no interest' in RoP!!! Considering the cost of the show, and how it 'must succeed no matter what', then ... blimey! Those in charge of making the decisions that lead to RoP should all be fired as they clearly haven't got the first fucking clue what they're doing. Meanwhile you've got Amazon's various 'Jack' shows doing quite well, the general success of 'The Boys', and I've heard good things about "The Terminal List" (still got to get around to that one) ... do they still not 'get' it? I’m done with FTWD. Didn’t even finish the last two episodes once I found out Alicia was leaving the show, yet, wasn’t killed off of course. Between the butchering of Strand and Daniel, I have lost complete interest. Reading all of the above posts about Fear reminded me why I dropped that show. Oh yeah, Daniel as well - they kinda neutered him, so you start wondering if there's a real purpose in keeping him around. He was one of the best characters on the show, but they've just ground him up into a loose meat sandwich now. I don't understand Fear's obsession with Alicia, like she was this amazing character - she was awful. Out of the original family she was the most infuriating pain in the arse. All the others in her family who were killed off were far better. Even the messed up version of Madison absolutely tramples Alicia. I just found that tree-painting numpty so irritating, swinging around that moronic broken gun barrel 'weapon' like it was some super sweet melee weapon. It didn't even look easy/comfortable to hold. And all those holes, how was it not getting stuck on everything all the time? Terrible choice of zombie killing tool!

[facestabber]

Episode “Faith”. I’ve always said TWD was the greatest show in the history of my life. I still remember the magic of Halloween in 2010 watching “Days Gone Bye”. I can’t believe how predictable, boring and un scary this show has become. The writing is just stale and poor. I don’t even think I can put my displeasure and sadness about how this show has just plummeted in quality. ah hell with this i’m gonna go drown in bourbon.

[MinionZombie]

Episode “Faith”. I’ve always said TWD was the greatest show in the history of my life. I still remember the magic of Halloween in 2010 watching “Days Gone Bye”. I can’t believe how predictable, boring and un scary this show has become. The writing is just stale and poor. I don’t even think I can put my displeasure and sadness about how this show has just plummeted in quality. ah hell with this i’m gonna go drown in bourbon. I wouldn't be so bleak in my assessment, but I am disappointed that the Commonwealth wasn't more widely explored before season 11 - seeing some glimpses of how the mechanics of the whole operation work have been very interesting, such as the forced labour camp and how 'undesirables' get swept out of the city and used elsewhere. I will say that the Outpost 22 leader, as seen in this latest episode "Faith", is disappointingly one-note. Having recently finished House of the Dragon, with it's hugely complex 'grey area characters', it's a shame to see such black & white villains on TWD lately - people who are such utter bastards that they're incredibly unaware of how their shitty actions are actually creating more problems for themselves (or they just don't care - which is piss poor leadership and makes you wonder how on earth The Commonwealth could function with such people in charge ... then again, I glance at the UK government, and, well...). Indeed, it's frustrating to see The Commonwealth almost deliberately run in a malevolent way, rather than being run in a seriously compromised manner because its leaders are desperately trying to spin a million plates all at once while dealing with numerous problems (housing, medical care, water, food, electricity etc etc etc) within the context of a never-ending threat from the undead. Pushed into extreme circumstances, people with good intentions have found their ideals chipped away at more and more, and one bad decisions begets another one. Instead Pamela Milton has become a fairly one-note villain herself, a typical sleazy politician. I don't believe she truly cares about anyone but herself and that's not enough for a good villain. Negan did actually care about his people, albeit in a very fucked up fashion (all his talk of people as a "resource") - and, indeed, seeing how Negan's character has been developed since the end of All Out War on the show has been really good writing - which continued in this episode as well. So it's a mixed bag. Some villains are too simplistic and predictable moustache twirlers, while others get much better shading (i.e. Negan). There's also small things they could finesse a bit. When Negan was getting lined up and people were coming forward they could've tweaked the editing and especially the music to really suggest that, just maybe, a big cast cull was about to happen. The moment felt a little half-inflated in the final product - a couple of minor changes could've given it an extra boost. There's plenty of good stuff going on, although I still don't really feel like this is coming to a close - that there's only two episodes remaining - which is concerning for what actually are the final episodes of TWD. I know there's spin-offs and such, but we need a sense of closure and climax for the main show itself.

[facestabber]

Gimme Hershel’s farm all day and every day. That truly felt like the ZA. The larger the communities got the less enjoyable the watch is for me. I don’t want politics and politicians, get enough of that garbage. Minion, you’re spot on about the villains. Compared to House of Dragons this show is really lacking. mustache twirlers for sure. It seems so forced and over the top. In a world where the dead are walking I understanding suspending some rationale is necessary. But I just can’t watch anymore anonymous meetings of groups in the woods. The writing is so lazy. The season 4 railroad track/terminus journey worked and made sense. It had plausibility IMO. But this stuff is just poor. I’ll finish this out. May even shed a tear when the final credits role as I remember the amazing journey. But the final two episodes better harness some amazing ideas for me to want to watch spin-offs. I will give the Rick and Michonne one a shot just because Rick is TWD to me. But the rest I don’t know.

[Moon Knight]

Did someone say HOUSE OF THE DRAGON?? Now, THAT is a damn good show. “Faith” was far more enjoyable compared to the last 4, 5 episodes? Idk, looks like they rather setup the spin offs than give the OG show the perfect ending it deserves.

[MinionZombie]

looks like they rather setup the spin offs than give the OG show the perfect ending it deserves. Hmmm... it is concerning, isn't it? Really, the spin-offs should be sequels, the 'what happens after the end?', not the main show bending to the will of the spin-offs. After such a long run the main show very much needs to have its own conclusion and ending - it needs to feel completed in and of itself, outside of any further spin-offs. I've not even bothered going back to finish "Tales of The Walking Dead" (I struggled through 4 out of 6 episodes and it was just one big pile of shit after another most of the time).

[beat_truck]

I haven't watched TWD since right before the 6 filler episodes from during the coof, but I have all the episodes up until now recorded (on VHS). The show has honestly been a real chore to watch since season 8. If they don't wrap up the series properly and just continue on, expecting people to follow up with the sequels, I WILL be shit-canning what I have recorded instead of watching it. I have seriously considered doing that as it is.