TWD 4x04 "Indifference" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN**

[Publius]

If that's what it takes to ensure the survival of the rest of the group, then yes. But how do you know it ensures the survival of the group? In Carol's case, it obviously did not. Those two were locked up and isolated. Either they had already infected others or they hadn't -- going in there and killing them wasn't going to change anything except creating another risk of infection. But that's what Carol chose to do. But realistically people have been passing that illness around since long before even the 1st person showed symptoms. Exactly, which is why there is no reason to think that Carol's action could have solved the illness problem. If it couldn't have fixed the problem, it was pointless and murder. - - - Updated - - - It's more his inconsistency, lets not forget that carl killed a kid in cold blood and only got a one month grounding with no gun privileges. Carol kills some people trying to protect the whole camp and he exiles her, effectively a death sentence, why? To protect carl and judith. He sees no problem with himself sentencing people to death, its only when its not his call that he gets all moralizing. the guys in the bar that he pretty much executed, the people in the crowd at woodbury that he fired on blindly, the crazy old dude in the cabin, the prisoner he killed with the machete and the other one that he trapped in the courtyard with walkers all around? he does not mind executing people, he just doesn't like other people doing it. Carl killed an armed enemy who failed to immediately comply with an order to drop his weapon. I question his state of mind, but objectively I call that a good shoot -- can't say I would have done differently. The guys at the bar drew on Rick. The prisoners had also clearly exhibited either hostile acts or hostile intent. The two that Carol killed were lying in bed, sick.

[MinionZombie]

I'd be shane *steps away slowly* You'd be Carol Kind of neat that the TWD writers figured out an alternative way to have a main character "leave the show" other than the usual get munched on departure. Yeah, I dug that - they can shock us and provide memorable material without actually killing anyone. It's important that they try and use death sparingly, otherwise it loses some impact ... you're expecting newbies to die within the episode, so they could change that up a little bit, but on the other hand they're giving enough characterisation to those who do pop up briefly that we want them to hang around longer, or might be about to think they're going to be around longer ... but, usually, they end up on the chopping block ... so then I circle back around to mixing that up a little bit.

[Moon Knight]

Carl killing that kid in 3x16 was completely different. That was in heat of battle and it involved someone who was involved in attacking your group and invading your home. Also, he wasn't a member of Carl's own group.

[Legion2213]

Carl killing that kid in 3x16 was completely different. That was in heat of battle and it involved someone who was involved in attacking your group and invading your home. Also, he wasn't a member of Carl's own group. Also, if you watch the scene, it actually looked like the guy was slowly angling to try and take a shot, the first time I watched, I thought he was going to try and get one over on Carl...so in a real life situation where my own life was on the line (in Carl's shoes), I would have shot him as well...he didn't comply quick enough and drop his weapon. And as others have pointed out, the fact that entire group is now riddled with some sort of killer plague proves the point that Carols action did sweet FA to stem the disease or save the group. It was a bad, bad call on her part...she's actually weakened the group by getting herself exiled (as a non-sick, able bodied pair of hands). And of course, there will be potentially disastrous repercussions when the truth comes out, possibly splitting/dividing the group even more.

[babomb]

But how do you know it ensures the survival of the group? In Carol's case, it obviously did not. Those two were locked up and isolated. Either they had already infected others or they hadn't -- going in there and killing them wasn't going to change anything except creating another risk of infection. But that's what Carol chose to do. Exactly, which is why there is no reason to think that Carol's action could have solved the illness problem. If it couldn't have fixed the problem, it was pointless and murder. You don't know that it will. You take the route that has the highest probability of success. Because that's really all you can do, and everyone's life hangs in the balance. Like treating an infection of unknown origin. You start with a broad spectrum antibody, then when you can identify the infection you switch to a more specific antibody. In the case of the illness in the prison, they'll really never know more than they know right now. They don't have the benefit of modern science. Herschel and Dr-S should be pretty familiar with past illnesses throughout history, and understand what effects they had on societies before modern medicine. Which, realistically, is the position they're in. They have to deal with this as if there is no modern medicine. Because there isn't. They know more than people did in the past, but without the ability to practice modern medicine there's not alot they can do with knowledge only. - - - Updated - - - I must admit I did roll my eyes a little bit at how lightly they took the quarantine issue. ie: Everyone should have stayed away from each other, and indeed groups should have stay away from other groups. Food and water should have been split up. And anyone showing any symptoms isolated. This illness plot thread they got going works as a superficial threat but you can tell it wasn't thought out much more than that. Everyone is reacting like they know more about the illness than they possibly could. The dead are coming back to life as a result of some sort of communicable disease. And they all know they're already infected. They know enough that they amputate limbs to prevent the spread, and kill anyone bitten before they come back. Something like this new illness should really have everyone extremely paranoid that it's somehow related, and make everyone not want to have close contact with anyone else. Especially anyone showing symptoms. Because there's simply no way for them to know anything about this illness. The walker virus kills people with flu like symptoms of extreme fevers and respiratory distress/failure. So does this new illness. There's people with medical knowledge, so surely they're aware of the possibility of mutation. Without science all you have to go on are the symptoms. And the symptoms are basically identical. But they act as if they're so sure that the absence of any bite wounds on Patrick is automatically proof that this is a completely unrelated illness. Something like that would realistically be treated as nothing more than a theory, and nobody would want to take chances that the theory is wrong. So everyone would basically be acting as if this was a mutation of the walker virus. Even if some people had doubts they'd still not be taking any chances.

[SeekNDestroy82]

Quite frankly I'm getting quite bored of this whole "flu" storyline. In fact, I'm getting tired of the prison in general...

[babomb]

Quite frankly I'm getting quite bored of this whole "flu" storyline. In fact, I'm getting tired of the prison in general... Amen to that. And welcome to the forums.

[bassman]

Quite frankly I'm getting quite bored of this whole "flu" storyline. In fact, I'm getting tired of the prison in general... the "word on the street" is that there will be something happening in 405 that compromises both of those storylines/locations....

[Neil]

Quite frankly I'm getting quite bored of this whole "flu" storyline. In fact, I'm getting tired of the prison in general... The flu has only been a couple of episodes, and even then not 100% of the screen time? The prison doesn't bother me at the moment, because all they will do it have to find another place in stead to base things at...

[facestabber]

Quite frankly I'm getting quite bored of this whole "flu" storyline. In fact, I'm getting tired of the prison in general... Great name. Metallica\m/. All day every day. I agree about the prison. The flu was needed until the gov returns.

[Legion2213]

the "word on the street" is that there will be something happening in 405 that compromises both of those storylines/locations.... I'd buy that for a dollar! I think the prison really has run it's course, lets hit the post apocalypse trail again (to be fair, this season has seen folks foraging and scouting in every episode though), but yeah, hit the road, let's see if we can find those folks making radio broadcasts and the like, soak up the sights and sounds of this brave new world!

[babomb]

I'd buy that for a dollar! I think the prison really has run it's course, lets hit the post apocalypse trail again (to be fair, this season has seen folks foraging and scouting in every episode though), but yeah, hit the road, let's see if we can find those folks making radio broadcasts and the like, soak up the sights and sounds of this brave new world! As much as I'd like to see the same thing, I don't think we'll get it. It seems like locations is something they don't like to spend money on if they can avoid it. They could've found a decommissioned prison to shoot at but they chose to create one on a studio back-lot. All the other locations seem very small in scale, and all the shots are usually pretty cramped. It's something I noticed that changed drastically from season 1. In season 1 the locations were more dramatic and open, with the hospital, Ricks neighborhood, the city, the CDC. And the shots were more expansive. In season 2 we started seeing smaller locations and tighter shots. It fits the storyline so you don't notice it unless you look for it. But I think it allows them to put money into other aspects. Like walker extras and FX.

[paranoid101]

Great Episode one of the things that did bug me was Daryl's Group at the university, they seemed to get in fine collect the drugs they needed, but why Didn't they go out the same way they came in?, didn't seem to be in a rush when collecting the drugs like walkers were after them. just seemed strange to go out a completely different way not know the dangers ahead. Plus I love Carol's character progression this series, I don't think shes cold but has started to see how you need to be in this world to survive.

[Moon Knight]

Carol easily became the most intersting character on the show. Her interactions with Rick in this episode are fascinating and are only appreciated after you break down each scene after multiple viewings. She see's Rick as weak and Rick is just damn afraid of her. Whoever thinks this season is boring aren't clearly paying attention and dissecting what is being played out in front of them.

[rongravy]

I have yet to rewatch the episode, but stellar as usual. I can't see how anyone could think that the Daryl scene with him bumping foreheads and being Mr. Badass was anything other than utter silliness, though. That was actually pretty cringeworthy for me to witness. And Tyreese needs to either lose that hammer, or turn it over to the claw side. Geeeez. And we all know Carol is coming back. But yeah, I noticed they are going deeper into her character than earlier seasons; the kiss of death, for sure. I waited until today to read all 7 pages on this thread, and there is just too much to get into, and I often saw things answered for me later anyway. I'd still like to hear what ol' Herschel would have to say about this... Hersch'...?