Dawn 78' Vs Dawn 04

[Ragnarr]

I agree, the orignial is simply a masterpiece. Dawn 04 isn't a zombiefilm, it's an actionfilm. It's fast-paced, annoying and riddled with cheap scares. It plays too much on clichés for me to enjoy it as anything else than popcorn fun. And when a zombiefilm steeps to that level for me, it ceases to be a zombiefilm. Or even a horrorfilm. Dawn04 riddled with cheap scares? Are you saying cheap scares unlike the meaty, wholesome scares from Dawn 1978 like: -The "manikin" zombie that somehow remains perfectly still until Roger comes running by in that store? (the one that was dispatched via screwdriver) -The zombie that just pops out from around the corner to grab Peter (somehow knowing he was there without seeing him) in the scene when Stephen can't decide whether to run towards Peter or head back to the staircase? (I think zombies just popped out of nowhere to grab Stephen too in that scene) -The undetected zombie Stephen bumps into hurrying out of the airplane hangar? Not for nothing, but "cheap scares" are used as fillers in just about every horror movie.

[Trin]

Ragnarr makes some good points. Dawn '78 is not without its cheap scares. The mannequin zombie really stands out as the worst in my mind. The others I'm more okay with because I think they are at worst bad execution. Zombies popping out from around corners is not *that* out of line with a mall filled with zombies. The mannequin zombie though is a bad idea that contradicts zombie behavior in addition to being poorly executed. As for the last page's discussion on pie fights and silly moments... I stand behind the idea that the silly moments displayed by the biker gang work within the movie to display their general disposition in dealing with the zombies. Forgetting the actual pie fight for a moment, several other things are less onerous. Like the biker trying to take jewelry. Or smashing the TV. Or even using the blood pressure cuff. Those are things that someone let into an empty, vacant mall might do... akin to a kid in a candy store. The general attitude of the leaders of the bikers was to let the group blow off some steam, and they didn't consider the zombies much of a threat. The pie fight itself was a bad idea and not good execution of this idea. It did come off as gimicky and cheap. While Dawn '04 had it's bad spots... I'd be hard pressed to come up with something as blatantly silly and out of place in Dawn '04.

[Andy]

The biker with the fascination for the blood machine obviously dosnt think the zombies where a threat even when they encircled him and where closing in. I thought that was one of the stupidest parts of the original dawn.

[AcesandEights]

The biker with the fascination for the blood machine obviously dosnt think the zombies where a threat even when they encircled him and where closing in. I thought that was one of the stupidest parts of the original dawn. That part used to annoy the hell out of me, but then I just chalked it up to him being high on a cocktail of various illicit substances, but it's still annoying.

[Andy]

I cant take the original dawn seriously, largely due to that scene aswell as the mannequin zombie.. Its far stupider than anything in the remake if you ask me.

[bassman]

I agree that dawn has it's silly moments, but at least the mannequin moment wasn't actually written into the script. As we all know from the documentary and commentary, it was a quick addition to fix the continuity problem with the jacket around Roger's body. The pie fights and even to a small extent, the blood pressure guy kinda make sense to me in a weird way. It seems like something those cocky bikers would be comfortable with. Not that i'm really defending Dawn as a perfect movie. It's pretty bad. Day is where it's at.

[Andy]

Ive seriously never liked the haminess of the original dawn, i think its the weakest of romeros original trilogy to be honest, its a alright film but compared to the other 2, its dated very badly. i could name zombie flicks by around a dozen directors from the same time period i prefer to dawn. fulci, lenzi, o'bannon, grau, raimi.. i could go on but i wont i think i dislike dawn a little bit more everytime i see it and i cant quite lay my finger on the specific reason. Its not the 1970s feel as i love old movies but the general haminess, i dont know how else to describe it.. Night of the living dead and day of the dead have both matured like a fine wine over the years, dawn of the dead has matured like a bad curry.

[bassman]

I agree, Andy. But for some reason Dawn is still like comfort food to me. I recognize it's not very good and it hasn't aged well, but something about it just comforts me. As i mentioned a few days ago in the shoutbox, I used to LOVE falling asleep with the original trilogy. Something about them all relax me. Which is strange considering they're horror films....

[Andy]

I Absolutly love night and day, i dont want this to be another 'Andys slagging romero off again..' topic, my 2 favourite movies of all time.. I think what bothers me about dawn is the fact that its not really a horror film, its a ok movie but its more of a action adventure movie with some comedy in it where-as night and day are both horror/thriller movies and I am a total horror movie geek too, everything from night of the living dead to psycho to nightmare on elm street and childsplay, i am a total sucker for a horror movie even if its shit Thats whats putting me off dawn i think, everytime i watch it, im reminded that its not a horror film just a little bit more.

[AcesandEights]

So both Dawns are fun for what they are....action flicks with zombies? Some fanboy is bound to go ballistic-spazmotic over that eventually.

[MikePizzoff]

So both Dawns are fun for what they are....action flicks with zombies? Some fanboy is bound to go ballistic-spazmotic over that eventually. I'm holding myself back!

[Gryphon]

I find it's really very simple. What am I in the mood to watch most often? I have all the Romero movies on Blu Ray (and the 2004 Dawn as well). What do I watch out of all that, most often? Day of the Dead. Sometimes I'll watch old Dawn + Day. If I have a long boring day at home, Night + Dawn + Day. If I'm angry for some reason, or in a bad mood, maybe I'll watch Dawn '04 for a catharsis But, then I'll calm down by watching... well, Day of the Dead!

[Ragnarr]

Don't get me wrong; I still enjoy watching the original Dawn. It's just some of the scenes were weird. Here's a few more besides the ones already mentioned that make me scratch my curly top: Fran closes the store door on the Nun zombie's skirt. She slightly opens the door just enough to release the trapped skirt, then closes the door again. The Nun zombie kinda looks at her politely, then goes off to follow the other zombies chasing Peter, Roger and Stephen because you see as a zombie, she wants to eat them. She is not for some reason pawing at the door where Food is... I mean, where Fran is. Then you have the Hari Krishna dude. He happens to (get this) stagger in the opposite direction of Peter and Stephen (obvious food), happens to open one of like 20 doors (yes, the one that goes down that long maintenence hallway), staggers all the way down the maintenance hallway to the exact door that leads up to Fran. Now he makes the long, slow "dinkle dinkle dinkle" climb up the stairs (so fast in fact that Fran only has time to stack 3 boxes against the door), then uses his super Krishna powers to push open the door barred by Fran and the heavy boxes, I mean C'MON NOW!

[blind2d]

Even in death, the Hare Krishna proves his superior strength to mere mortals. But seriously? Dawn is great. It's just great. You guys need to get out more. Why didn't the remake do it right? There was no sense of hopelessness.... of isolation... I know that feeling, and it's terrifying. Snyder had no terror. No... real threat. Just for a few brief seconds in a few scenes before the very very stupid ending. They didn't even have to work at closing up the mall, for crissakes! No, Dawn original is where it's at. An examination of the human condition in times of crisis. And the boxes weren't that heavy, and were stacked inefficiently. - 2D

[Trin]

Dawn '78 is still a horror movie for me. It is scary. The atmosphere is creepy. The subject matter is horrific. I think to call it an action flick opens the door to calling any movie an action flick simply because it has action in it. The behavior of zombies to ignore humans at times has been discussed before and it's a common element in GAR's movies. Whether it is Bub being trained or Big Daddy focusing on a larger goal, or the nun just not being interested. It's never bothered me because it's clearly part of GAR's intent for his zombies. In fact, in the case of the nun, I think it's an interesting element. Was she able to overcome the urge to feed due to how she lived her life? The Hare Krishna scene is one of the scenes that I have a hard time watching because it makes my skin crawl when he gets so close to defenseless Fran. Why did he go to the stairway instead of following the food? Maybe he was smarter than the others and was hoping where they came from had more food with no competition for it. Maybe he heard Fran opening and closing the door. We know that not all the zombies were lured with food. It's not terribly out of line with the general zombie behavior. I don't get the whole campy/hammy opinions. I can see it as dated. I can see how a few of the scenes don't fit quite well enough. But the core acting to me is very good. I do agree that compared to Dawn '04 it is more campy and more silly. But when I look at the body of horror movies I was watching in and around that time I just don't see it as bad compared to its peers.