FEAR The Walking Dead - Season 4 discussion...

[JDP]

Bro, go back and watch it again. You purposely trolling or what? You can see it in her eyes she regretted what she did the moment she pulled the trigger. She didn’t try hurting ANYONE since that. Don’t know how you see her as this vengeful demon. Really? She ran away pretty fast right after shooting him. Didn't stick around to express her supposed remorse, and actually went back to her "vulture" peeps, as per usual. And this after all the other damage and deaths they had already caused. She only came up with the usual "I am sorries!" when she had a gun pointing at her while her peeps were getting hunted & shot down (and justly so.) This character does not elicit any sympathies after all the rotten things she's done. I've already seen many a FTWD fan screaming for her blood. I can't blame them one bit. Totally deserves to die, kid or no kid.

[MinionZombie]

Well it's all a moot point as Luciana didn't pull the trigger - Luciana recognised that she was on the precipice of crossing a very particular line, and she chose not to cross it despite the grievance committed against her. Luciana did not want to murder a child. Gee, I guess some old world habits stick around, huh? Charlie has also been manipulated by the vultures in certain ways, ideologically, but at the same time they've also not been physically abusive to her (she wasn't used by them in that horrible way, for example, but protected even when she went along with Madison & Co - but, indeed, her position as a child carries weight and it was a safe bet to put her in as a double agent). Charlie could have ended up in extremely dire straights in the ZA, but the vultures took her in and gave her a home - despite their own particular and screwed up ideology. Indeed, they seem to be far less evil than The Saviours, for instance, whose movers and shakers from grunts to lieutenants to Negan himself delight in the infliction of pain and suffering (remember the photos of Negan's handy works with Lucille that one guy took). The Vultures, on the other hand, seem split - the main protector of Charlie didn't want to unleash the walkers on the Diamond, so even amongst their ranks there is split leadership. So, when Charlie sees her protector murdered by Nick, she lashes out almost instantly and, in-turn, immediately regrets her decision and flees in terror. She's riven with guilt at this point and will never be able to make amends for her mistake. FearTWD is presenting a more complex story than 'an eye for an eye' ... we've had plenty of that.

[JDP]

Well it's all a moot point as Luciana didn't pull the trigger - Luciana recognised that she was on the precipice of crossing a very particular line, and she chose not to cross it despite the grievance committed against her. Luciana did not want to murder a child. Gee, I guess some old world habits stick around, huh? Charlie has also been manipulated by the vultures in certain ways, ideologically, but at the same time they've also not been physically abusive to her (she wasn't used by them in that horrible way, for example, but protected even when she went along with Madison & Co - but, indeed, her position as a child carries weight and it was a safe bet to put her in as a double agent). Charlie could have ended up in extremely dire straights in the ZA, but the vultures took her in and gave her a home - despite their own particular and screwed up ideology. Indeed, they seem to be far less evil than The Saviours, for instance, whose movers and shakers from grunts to lieutenants to Negan himself delight in the infliction of pain and suffering (remember the photos of Negan's handy works with Lucille that one guy took). The Vultures, on the other hand, seem split - the main protector of Charlie didn't want to unleash the walkers on the Diamond, so even amongst their ranks there is split leadership. So, when Charlie sees her protector murdered by Nick, she lashes out almost instantly and, in-turn, immediately regrets her decision and flees in terror. She's riven with guilt at this point and will never be able to make amends for her mistake. FearTWD is presenting a more complex story than 'an eye for an eye' ... we've had plenty of that. Not buying it. Her actions speak very loudly and clearly. Anyone who can't see why that "vulture" guy fully deserved to die is either insane or has a totally screwed up sense of "right & wrong". Let me repeat: the guy unleashed a friggin' army of zombies on an entire group of people, and to top it off also set them on fire... you know, to make even more sure that they would cause death & destruction galore. Now, Charlie is not crazy, but she is obviously devious and deceitful, that's why she keeps sticking with this cutthroat gang. She knows that what she and her "vulture" pals have been doing is rotten stuff. She knows well why Nick killed that bastard. There are no valid excuses here. Charlie deserves to be shot on sight, just like the rest of her gang.

[MinionZombie]

IIRC the one who unleashed the walker herd on the Diamond wasn't the same man who was Charlie's protector, Charlie's protector was the softer one of the two brothers. The one who unleashed the walkers was the harder, meaner one of the brothers. Indeed, Charlie's protector (I keep forgetting his name - anyone remember?) warned Madison to flee. Clearly, to him, unleashing a load of walkers was not a method he personally approved of but, as part of that group along with his more extreme brother, he found himself compromised by association. Seemed there was a schism in their group - one man who just waited for the inevitable and picked over the leftovers, and another one who was more pro-active. I'd imagine Charlie was somewhat torn between the two, but the better of the two was the one who took her more under his wing. What the vultures do/did is still wrong, but it's not simple black hat/white hat stuff going on in the TWD universe. Never has been, never will be. There's still a better side to be on (e.g. Team Rick over The Saviours), but you don't have moustache twirling villains tying damsels to railroads. Everyone's got a perspective, even if some groups are more predatory in their actions, but as we've seen in this half-season even our 'good guys' have done bad things or gone charging towards villainous territory (Alicia in particular).

[Moon Knight]

Yeah, I’m sure she wanted to stick around and tell his sister and girlfriend she’s sorry. Mel took her in and cared for her during this rather difficult time when the dead are eating people. I’m sure that has a little something to do with her loyalty to the Vultures. Let’s not forget what Rick and crew did to the Saviors in their sleep. Compare that to Charlie spying on Madison’s group. I’m convinced JD just likes f*cking with people here haha.

[JDP]

Yeah, I’m sure she wanted to stick around and tell his sister and girlfriend she’s sorry. Mel took her in and cared for her during this rather difficult time when the dead are eating people. I’m sure that has a little something to do with her loyalty to the Vultures. Let’s not forget what Rick and crew did to the Saviors in their sleep. Compare that to Charlie spying on Madison’s group. I’m convinced JD just likes f*cking with people here haha. The fact that she ran away and did not face the consequences is already telling. If she was really sorry for what she did, she would have stayed and faced the consequences of her actions. But no, she ran right back to her gang, where she knows she was safe and would not have to answer for what she did. The fact that this "vulture" gang was nice to her does not excuse the fact that she has been engaging in the rotten business they do. She is fully aware that what they do is bad and has grave effects on others. Rick & company decided to take out the Saviors because those guys were bullying and forcing the Hilltop into submission. It was pretty clear that these Saviors were not "nice guys" at all even then! Plus technically-speaking, the war was started by the Saviors. Remember the road incident with the water truck? Abraham almost got executed in cold blood by the Savior bikers. If it wasn't for Daryl's opportune intervention, Abraham would have died that day. So it was them who really started the war.

[facestabber]

Well hell. With this much back and forth I will have to give fear another try. Think I saw 2 or 3 episodes of season 2.

[bassman]

Well hell. With this much back and forth I will have to give fear another try. Think I saw 2 or 3 episodes of season 2. Ha, that’s exactly where I gave up on the show, as well. Like you, having heard so much about it and that it also improves as it progresses, I too am going to have to give it another try. I’ve seen recently that Hulu has the series for free, so with all these signs building up, I suppose it’s time for me to try again....

[MinionZombie]

If you packed it in during season 2 then don't bother with season 3, because that was just as naff ... season 4a, on the other hand, is a big improvement. So just hop back on with 4x01, I'd say. Now, 4a certainly isn't without fault (our old friend filler returns, simply because 16 episodes a season is too many), but even still, 4a does a yeti-sized dump all over the previous couple of seasons.

[bassman]

Wouldn’t skipping Season Three leave us in the dark as to who’s there, who’s gone, where the group is living, etc? Or is it really that bad that it can be skipped with no issue?

[MinionZombie]

Wouldn’t skipping Season Three leave us in the dark as to who’s there, who’s gone, where the group is living, etc? Or is it really that bad that it can be skipped with no issue? Well ... I suppose you'd miss out on certain events, the odd death or whatever and the intro of Luciana, but season 3 is chock full'o filler as well, and Season 4a has a big time jump after the climax of Season 3, which is only referenced, like, once. By all means, watch the episodes you've not seen, but I will warn you that it might be a slog. I was ready to pack in FearTWD after season three (I kept watching in the hope it'd get better, but it was only doing the bare minimum). It was only the big changes for Season 4a - new showrunner, a time jump, Morgan heading over from TWD, new characters - that made me give it another shot. But, if anyone is of the mindset that they'd rather not watch seasons 2 and 3, or just skim them (or even just read the synopsis on Wiki) - because they're not that fussed about FearTWD - then you could jump straight to Season 4a and ride out the odd curiosity. To each their own. As a completist I understand the need to see all the episodes, especially with narrative drama such as this ... although, for me, season 3 was a bit of a chore.

[Moon Knight]

Season 3 is better than season 2 and 4 is so far the best in the series. My opinion of course. What the new showrunners did really well was introduce 3 good characters and Morgan’s involvement has worked because he’s been used to push other characters stories along while not making it all about him.

[MinionZombie]

Season 3 is better than season 2 and 4 is so far the best in the series. My opinion of course. What the new showrunners did really well was introduce 3 good characters and Morgan’s involvement has worked because he’s been used to push other characters stories along while not making it all about him. Agreed. Well, with the second paragraph anyway. I don't know if I'd say season 3 was any better than season 2, IMHO.

[Moon Knight]

Agreed. Well, with the second paragraph anyway. I don't know if I'd say season 3 was any better than season 2, IMHO. I guess I was more in favor of it because I really liked Troy and Walker as characters. Not a fan of Luciana so season 2 and that whole Colonia storyline was very unappealing to me and really hurt Nick in the process.

[MinionZombie]

I guess I was more in favor of it because I really liked Troy and Walker as characters. Not a fan of Luciana so season 2 and that whole Colonia storyline was very unappealing to me and really hurt Nick in the process. I quite like Luciana, although wasn't much into Colonia either ... and I was fed up with Troy and Walker and all that lot very quickly, almost immediately in fact.