TWD 3x16 "Welcome to the Tombs" episode discussion...**SPOILERS WITHIN**

[Ragnarr]

You're spot on Trick. I was watching some documentary about whatever, but remember a part in it about training policemen to shoot under the pressure of hypothetical return fire. First they fired without any added pressure whatsoever, then with. BIG difference in bullet placement on the target obviously the stressed rounds being much worse than the relaxed rounds. While I've never personally been in that situation, I'm a bit confused by this difference. I mean it's not like anyone can see incoming bullets and duck them lol. Perhaps it's the mental stress of hearing the bullets whizzing past your head. Says a lot for using flame throwers or shotguns, eh?

[shootemindehead]

There's always a huge difference with shooting in a live fire zone. I remember reading ages ago a stat that suggested that even with trained soldiers firing in combat, only the extreme minority are actually firing at anything at all. Most are firing blindly and others are taking cover and not firing at all.

[MinionZombie]

It's kinda funny ... complaints about them being super accurate in 2x13, now complaints about their aim being more realistic. I think it's also more of a scare tactic, rather than seeking to slaughter anyone - scare them off, like.

[Wyldwraith]

That was the heart of the complaint though, Those three had every tangible, human reason to be shooting to kill, and only a milk-sop campfire-sing-along sort of happy-happy view of the protagonists to justify them A-Team'ing it. I'll go one further than not aiming to kill....I believe, given that they were using automatic weapons, and given that they were using those weapons WELL WITHIN the ideal kill-zone of said weapons, that it would have taken WILLFUL ACTION to AVOID hitting Woodbury invaders. Three people spraying a position lower than them, from a short distance away were (IMHO) more likely to score at least a few hits or ricochet-hits while "blind-firing" than not. To hit NO ONE in that mass of bodies charging directly past them? The only thing that makes sense is for whatever reason(s), however ill-advised, they were trying to miss. As I watched the scene, I found myself thinking "Wow, I wish having sex one time fixed major emotional conflicts I've struggled with for deeply validated reasons, like it obviously has for Glenn/Maggie." However, to complete that picture we're being asked to believe that Merle's once-in-his-life selfless act of brotherly devotion...which resulted in his being killed and left a Walker, for Daryl to find and have to put down, somehow engendered in Daryl feelings of mercy that fly 180-degrees in the face of the pragmatism which has been his trademark. Why? HOW??? So far as the accuracy-under-fire issue...that isn't applicable here, since not only weren't the Woodburyites shooting back, they were caught completely by surprise. Glenn/Maggie/Daryl had the picture-perfect opportunity to choose to begin firing at the most ideal/effective moment, with the opposition none the wiser as to their whereabouts until they started shooting. Honestly, assuming you took the weapon off safety for them and otherwise left it in a ready-to-fire state....I think someone who had never held a gun in their lives COULD have hit Woodburyites in that situation.

[MinionZombie]

As the Woodburyites fled the prison, they were shooting back ... it might have mostly been The Governor, but regardless of who it was, return fire was coming. Plus it can't be easy getting an accurate aim wearing riot gear, having that plastic-shielded helmet on, and firing through a chainlink fence at people below you when you're hiding behind kinda clunky cover.

[Ragnarr]

If I was writing the screenplay, I would have at least had a few grazing wounds on both sides of the battle. It's not a big point for me the way they handled it though. I'm more annoyed that the Gov didn't get what I expected he would. Then again, him living is more realistic than the nice, neat "bad guy gets killed" conclusion we see in just about every movie and television show. C'mon season 4!

[Wyldwraith]

Eh, I still maintain that TWD needs to find a workable middle-ground somewhere between Action Hero and Designated Red Shirt. These wild swings from sharpshooters to can't-hit-the-ground-if-they-fell are taking away from what are supposed to be tense, edge of your seat scenes. Just saying that the writers need to find a relative level of firearms accuracy they're happy with from each character and stick to it unless there's a compelling reason not to. (The person is wounded, under heavy fire, their attention is divided between both Walker and human threats etc etc.) As it stands I have NO feel for who's good with a gun beyond Rick, and good with his Xbow Daryl...because there's no sort of consistency amongst the others. I think we can all agree that in two very similar combat situations, a character's performance should be relatively equivalent, right? This wasn't a real big deal for me until the story developed non-immersive inconsistencies due to this issue. Now it's something I'd just like to see some consistency on come next season.

[Legion2213]

Eh, I still maintain that TWD needs to find a workable middle-ground somewhere between Action Hero and Designated Red Shirt. These wild swings from sharpshooters to can't-hit-the-ground-if-they-fell are taking away from what are supposed to be tense, edge of your seat scenes. Just saying that the writers need to find a relative level of firearms accuracy they're happy with from each character and stick to it unless there's a compelling reason not to. (The person is wounded, under heavy fire, their attention is divided between both Walker and human threats etc etc.) As it stands I have NO feel for who's good with a gun beyond Rick, and good with his Xbow Daryl...because there's no sort of consistency amongst the others. I think we can all agree that in two very similar combat situations, a character's performance should be relatively equivalent, right? This wasn't a real big deal for me until the story developed non-immersive inconsistencies due to this issue. Now it's something I'd just like to see some consistency on come next season. Interesting point about the pack of shootists we seem to have, the only one who can't shoot is Tyrese...everybody else seems to be very proficient, that said, they are a good year into zombiegeddon now, so if your life depended on it, I suppose you would learn pretty fast (or get chomped). It might be better to establish people being comfortable with certain weapons, although it might get be a bit too much detail...I suppose this is easier to do in written form, a page of text can tell us that a character favours a certain firearm due to size, feel weight etc...done on screen, it simply becomes a bit of a corny info-burst/clumsy exposition.

[facestabber]

Eh, I still maintain that TWD needs to find a workable middle-ground somewhere between Action Hero and Designated Red Shirt. These wild swings from sharpshooters to can't-hit-the-ground-if-they-fell are taking away from what are supposed to be tense, edge of your seat scenes. Just saying that the writers need to find a relative level of firearms accuracy they're happy with from each character and stick to it unless there's a compelling reason not to. (The person is wounded, under heavy fire, their attention is divided between both Walker and human threats etc etc.) As it stands I have NO feel for who's good with a gun beyond Rick, and good with his Xbow Daryl...because there's no sort of consistency amongst the others. I think we can all agree that in two very similar combat situations, a character's performance should be relatively equivalent, right? This wasn't a real big deal for me until the story developed non-immersive inconsistencies due to this issue. Now it's something I'd just like to see some consistency on come next season. Completely on board with ya here Wyld. And for the record I am going through some painful TWD withdrawl

[MinionZombie]

Something I would like to see from season 4 - more time passing between episodes - because, think about it, season 3 takes place over what, 2 weeks? If that? And yet at the start of the season (and, of course, production schedule) it's the start of summer and it looks hot-as-balls ... then by the end of the season there's shots of their breath in cold air, they've got jackets on, and the leaves are turning brown and starting to fall. It's not something you notice that much watching it over the course of several months when it originally airs, but when you stop and think about it for a second, it is a smidge distracting, heh. I've been wanting them to put a bit more time between episodes (variable amounts and whatever suits best - it could be a minute, it could be a week, whatever) and hopefully they will in season 4. It's not a huge deal, but it is a small tweak I'd like to see employed.

[Wyldwraith]

I'd think that some time-jumps will be almost mandatory given the end of season 3, They took in all the Woodbury dead weight, and no one is going to want to watch then scrounge for Depends and Insulin and whatever else...so there will most likely be a skip forward like there was for the beginning of Season 3. How'd they been on the move all winter after Herschel's place fell. With the Woodbury/Prison pingpong done, there's every reason to think that the interval of time during which the season occurs will lengthen. They kept is so short because they had to maintain the continuity betweeen two opposed yet linked communities, due to the aforementioned visual ping-ponging. With a singular focus return, and hopefully all efforts to sabotage the show over (I really don't have much more foregiveness for junk like the TG's silent killer grab of Andrea. They've had 3 seasons to set the tone and find their feet as regards pacing/atmosphere etc...it just sucks that the average Ebola victim has a longer expected survival time than a TWD showrunner.

[MinionZombie]

I'm talking between episodes within a season, not between seasons. I already dig the time-jumps between seasons (and I've read that there will be another time-jump between season 3 and 4, and I presume it'll be the same sort of length as before) ... what I'm specifically talking about though is wanting more time between individual episodes. Also, like I said, in a way that makes sense - so you can have two episodes take place on the same day or within minutes of each other, but I would like the fourth season to be paced over a longer period of time in that universe (as opposed to a couple of weeks) - in a way that makes sense. Of course, the pacing of the first three seasons dictated that the in-show time period be brief, and it works and is necessary to tell those stories (although it did in-part lead to the "we're going to war, but first we're gonna talk about it for three episodes" situation in the back-half of season 3 ... the attack is going to come quickly, not in a few weeks, so they can only fill those remaining episodes with events over a very short period of in-universe time ... which got a little troublesome - 3x14 being the main culprit) - generally though, fair enough - I'd just like to see more in-universe time pass over the course of the 16 episodes of season 4. You could maybe hit more of the 'sweet spots' more readily, and be able to shrug off some of the strictures of a more compressed in-universe time-frame when you want to ... if that makes sense?