uh oh gun shops under closer scrutiny...

[MissJacksonCA]

http://news.aol.com/story/_a/gun-sho...12135009990087 I can understand a gun shop once or twice selling weapons to people who go an commit crimes but habitually doing it suggests to me that they're capitalizing on crime in an area by reducing the standards by which they sell guns. They should revoke the licenses of businesses operating in bad crime areas who repeatedly sell to people who commit crimes but on the flipside... wouldn't that just force people to go to the nicer parts of town to buy guns? Or generate more illegal weapons sales?

[Khardis]

From what I read in the article they weren't selling to criminals as that would be illegal. The criminals however were sending in people without criminal records to buy guns under their names. This sucks, but isn't illegal if the gun shop doesn't know it beforehand. And the rest it seems were being purchased illegally, not from gun shops. But one guy working in the gun shop store offered advice on how t buy one illegally. Is that so bad? If someone gets out of jail for being busted with pot he is a criminal and cant get a gun or vote. Why should so many Democrats for example want to restore a felons right to vote, but not restore thier right to protect themselves?

[EvilNed]

A criminal can't vote in the US?

[darth los]

A criminal can't vote in the US? Once convicted of a felony you are disenfranchised. I find this hypocritical that some rights are restored upon release and others are not. They sure are quick to require you to pay taxes and stuff. But alot of individual rights like being able to vote and own guns must be reapplied for. So those who are released from prison aren't citizens in the truest sense of the word.

[MaximusIncredulous]

A criminal can't vote in the US? Depends on the state. Some only disqualify if a person is incarcerated or on parole but once released and on probation their voting rights are restored, others disqualify based on conviction only which is permanent unless that person fills out some paperwork but it's usually next to impossible to get those rights back in those particular states.

[darth los]

Alot of people take their franchise rights for granted and don't even exercise them . you only miss them when they're taken away. I guess you don't truly appreciate something until it's gone.

[Ivarr]

I am not anti gun ... far from it. I have owned both pistols and rifles and I enjoy target shoorting. But it never fails to amaze me how dubm some humans can be. When i lived in Maryland, there was a class 3 dealer my friends and I bought things from. (that means he was alowed to sell full auto machine guns) The shop owners also belonged to or ran an outdoor shooting range not to far away where they would bring a 50 cal machine gun for people to shoot. I thought they were stable people ... how else could they have a class 3 licence? But it turns out they were selling C 4 under the table and sold some to a group that was going to use it to break into a bank... in the same mall as the store. Thankfully the group was actually undercover cops. they busted them and came up with all sorts of nasty bits ... Like selling Uzi's to out of state people .... I have no issue with tight gun laws ... as long as their aim is to keep guns out of criminal hands ... and as long as the result is not making it unreasonably hard for a law abiding person to obtain a firearm. Hell, i have always thought the right to purchase (or a permit or whatever) should be tied to a safety cource that includes a yearly test to make sure you can hit what your aiming at. Nothing is more dangerous that a person with a weapon they do not know how to control. The problem of things like this going under the radar so to speak is the often advasarial relationship gun shops have with the local police. (Though not always). If people would just respect the right of people to own use firearms in a responsible manor... perhaps both sides could work together to make things more safe for all. Extreamists kill the will of both sides.

[Khardis]

I am not anti gun ... far from it. I have owned both pistols and rifles and I enjoy target shoorting. But it never fails to amaze me how dubm some humans can be. When i lived in Maryland, there was a class 3 dealer my friends and I bought things from. (that means he was alowed to sell full auto machine guns) The shop owners also belonged to or ran an outdoor shooting range not to far away where they would bring a 50 cal machine gun for people to shoot. I thought they were stable people ... how else could they have a class 3 licence? But it turns out they were selling C 4 under the table and sold some to a group that was going to use it to break into a bank... in the same mall as the store. Thankfully the group was actually undercover cops. they busted them and came up with all sorts of nasty bits ... Like selling Uzi's to out of state people .... I have no issue with tight gun laws ... as long as their aim is to keep guns out of criminal hands ... and as long as the result is not making it unreasonably hard for a law abiding person to obtain a firearm. Hell, i have always thought the right to purchase (or a permit or whatever) should be tied to a safety cource that includes a yearly test to make sure you can hit what your aiming at. Nothing is more dangerous that a person with a weapon they do not know how to control. The problem of things like this going under the radar so to speak is the often advasarial relationship gun shops have with the local police. (Though not always). If people would just respect the right of people to own use firearms in a responsible manor... perhaps both sides could work together to make things more safe for all. Extreamists kill the will of both sides. Do you also think that people should be required to take an IQ test in order to vote, and an English test in order to practice free speech? All gun laws make it harder for legal citizens to get them because, criminals don't follow the law. Case closed.

[Ivarr]

Do you also think that people should be required to take an IQ test in order to vote, and an English test in order to practice free speech?. God I wish ... (IQ test) And as far as all things making it hard... in the off chance that your not just being a tool ... I mean laws that are actually anti gun for EVERYONE. Example - A 5 day waiting period with background check. Does it slow things down... yes. Does it block you from having one, no. making somebody go through countless hoops of paperwork and requiring letters stating your a good boy from 3 people who are not related... then vetoing things because they don't feel like it that day ... thats a block for no good reason.

[Khardis]

God I wish ... (IQ test) And as far as all things making it hard... in the off chance that your not just being a tool ... I mean laws that are actually anti gun for EVERYONE. Example - A 5 day waiting period with background check. Does it slow things down... yes. Does it block you from having one, no. making somebody go through countless hoops of paperwork and requiring letters stating your a good boy from 3 people who are not related... then vetoing things because they don't feel like it that day ... thats a block for no good reason. I am not sure you understand how criminals get guns. They buy them illegally. Hence no 5 day waiting period. No background checks, no nothing.

[darth los]

Word. Criminals can't be bothered with formalities like that. That's the problem. When you have people who never intend on following the propper procedures there's really no way to regulate their activity. There will always be underground channels and a black market for unsavory activity.

[Ivarr]

Yes... criminals get guns ... I have long said that if you can't keep bails of <insert drug> from getting into the country ... why do you think people will have trouble getting guns in. What I mean with the 5 day thing is simply ... its reasonable ... and there is no need to fight over it ... there are real issues .... Like the fact that violent crime is delt down to lessor charges all the time. To me ... gun ownership is the ultimate testimate to your personal responsibility. But we spend far too much time focusing on on "guns" as the demon instead of the arsehole who uses them in a crime. The waiting period thing as far as I think it ... is more for a stop gap to "I'm gonna go buy a gun and blow <insert name's> head off." Five days is not going to kill a person to wait... Yes, even with the fact that they can do instant background checks. If you have to have a gun NOW, perhaps your in more trouble that you think you are. Punishment for commiting a crime with a gun should be extreamly painful and certain. No gun ... or other weapon ... deal down all day ... But thats just not how it happens ... sadly.

[Khardis]

Yes... criminals get guns ... I have long said that if you can't keep bails of <insert drug> from getting into the country ... why do you think people will have trouble getting guns in. What I mean with the 5 day thing is simply ... its reasonable ... and there is no need to fight over it ... there are real issues .... Like the fact that violent crime is delt down to lessor charges all the time. To me ... gun ownership is the ultimate testimate to your personal responsibility. But we spend far too much time focusing on on "guns" as the demon instead of the arsehole who uses them in a crime. The waiting period thing as far as I think it ... is more for a stop gap to "I'm gonna go buy a gun and blow <insert name's> head off." Five days is not going to kill a person to wait... Yes, even with the fact that they can do instant background checks. If you have to have a gun NOW, perhaps your in more trouble that you think you are. Punishment for commiting a crime with a gun should be extreamly painful and certain. No gun ... or other weapon ... deal down all day ... But thats just not how it happens ... sadly. I never disagreed with a 5 day wait for guns as a rule, because it does usually help sometimes if someone who is say NOT a criminal and snaps wants to go buy one and kill someone. Thats the only thing it stops though. but this **** about mandatory trigger locks, not being able to keep them in your car, or limits to magazine size, or mandatory finger printing for gun owners is bull****.

[Danny]

er, i highly doubt the fingerprinting is bull****, if i were a cop id damn sure want to know who owns the big guns in your area, and if a nutjob goes all columbine on a group of school kids then fingerprints are gonna say who used the gun. let me put it this way, say someone performs a murder with your gun, they could test for prints, adn if they didnt match yours, the ones on record you be proving rightfully innocent, if they didnt take the prints hey, sorry pal, your gun, your ass in jail.

[Khardis]

er, i highly doubt the fingerprinting is bull****, if i were a cop id damn sure want to know who owns the big guns in your area, and if a nutjob goes all columbine on a group of school kids then fingerprints are gonna say who used the gun. let me put it this way, say someone performs a murder with your gun, they could test for prints, adn if they didnt match yours, the ones on record you be proving rightfully innocent, if they didnt take the prints hey, sorry pal, your gun, your ass in jail. They would check my prints and see they didnt match up anyway. And if we should require a fingerprinting for gun ownership, why not require fingerprinting and tamper proof ID requirement to vote? Oh thats right, because then the Democrats couldn't get all their Mexican and illegal pals to vote.