6 Things that bug me about dead movies

[Doc Liberty]

Hello. I'm long time reader, first time poster. I love the dead films, especially the original Dawn (which is near perfect), but there are a few things that really bug me about the films. Am I nit-picking, or are these reasonable criticisms? (BTW human stupidity - Yes I do realize the films are allegorical, but I like my allegories to be believable too) 1. In Dawn: Zombies don't climb. So why don't the survivors make better effort to protect their upstairs bolt hole. I would have knocked out a section of the stairs and used a ladder to get into the upstairs room - I seem to remember they even had ladder in the room. This seems a lot more zombie-proof than building a false wall. 2. In Day: There is one high security fence (actually it looks pretty flimsy to me - but I guess that's the budget) round the base, which could give way if all Florida's zombies start turning up. There are a bunch of soldiers in the base, apparently there were more before, and they've been there for a while. My question: Why don't they build better defenses? Another fence within the fence? A wall within a wall? If you look at any castle or military fortification it always has concentric layers of defense, so a minor breach doesn't lead to total loss. Wouldn't it occur to soldiers that, putting your survival on a single fence have thought of this? 3. In Land: Basically same point as #2. They are relying on a single flimsy looking electric fence (given that they haven't thought of the zombies crossing the rivers). What if they power goes off? 4. In Day: Doesn't that fenced off bit of cave with zombies seem dumb? The first time that I saw the movie, I thought at first that cave must lead a tunnel through to the surface, and the zombies had just wondered in. Until I saw they had a list of zombies in the cave. Think about it: Somebody must have gone got a zombie from outside - presumably at great risk - tied up it, gagged its mouth, (well at least restrained it in some way) carried it through the base, and released it into the walled off-cave. And when they released it, they removed the restraints. Why not leave the restraints on? It's not like a zoo animal where you need to release its restraints so it can breathe/eat/move, or because you want to avoid cruelty. And if you're bring zombies in from outside, why stick them in a dark cave where you can't see what's going on. 5. Dawn Remake: How dumb is Andy? I mean to open the panel on the door to get the dog. I would have made a rope and cradle type thing and tried to scoop the dog up with that. 6. Dawn Remake: I'm not sure I'm into fast zombies anyway, but I didn't find them believable because their behavior was inconsistent. At the beginning the zombie little girl and boyfriend go absolutely maniac. Apart from running - jumping around, trying to dive thru a Window, etc. But once the zombies are outside the mall, they can see Andy and the mall-rats on the mall roof, and yet just sort of stumble around doing nothing. I think to be consistent these zombies should be going crazy: bashing themselves against the glass doors until they turn themselves into a pulp, trying (maybe unsuccessfully) to climb walls or drain pipes, etc. P.S. Sorry for the double post. I obviously messed something up

[livingdeadboy]

You got some pretty valid points, I agree with you about the zombies behaviour in Dawn '04 changing throughout the film.

[Doc Liberty]

It'd be a lot more scary in the Dawn remake if the zombies could climb! Also in the original Dawn in made sense at the end to leave the mall. In the remake I never had much sympathy for the characters - they were so dumb especially at the end. They decided to leave an island (the mall), full of goodies, completely safe, albeit surrounded by zombies - for an island that don't know exists, has no goodies, is probably unsafe, and at best will be surrounded by zombies.

[Philly_SWAT]

There are all valid points. These types of "that doesnt make any sense" observations can be applied to many movies of all different kinds. But in regards to your specific points, I would offer these comments. 1) In Dawn, zombies can climb. They climb the ladder at the end to reach the roof. I had a problem with that, but it is there, they are climbing. The one zombie even climbs the ladder while continuing to hold the rifle. 2) In Day, that compound was on an island, one with limited building materials. I guess they could have brought up some random stuff from the storage bunker to help baricade the fence, but that was quite a long bit of fence. They may have been too tired from gathering up all the zombies and they were smoking a lot of weed, so they were probably lazy. 3) In Land, more than your point I wonder how come if this is three years into the outbreak, how could they have built any fence at all with zombies all over the place? The one military guy says something like "they dont come around here much anymore" impying that they used to. Was it like "hold on there horde of zombies, I am currently building this fence. Give me a second and I will be right with you, then you can try to eat me". 4) Well, if they needed specimens to perform experiments, it would only make sense to keep them in an area near them. It wouldnt have done much good to keep them in a pen over on the mainland. The things that gets me if the zombies in the pen all had COLLARS on them! How they hell did they get their hands so close to the zombies mouths to get those collars on? 5) Dawn remake, yes Andy was indeed dumb. He may have been delirious due to lack of food. 6) Very good point, the zombies do act very inconsistently throughout the movie.

[Doc Liberty]

1. I had forgotten that. I guess it raises the question of why not take the ladder away when the zombies are coming. And the same applies both to the ladder in the movie, and the ladder I would have put after knocking out 1 flight of stairs. I didn't think the Dawn zombies were smart enough to go get ANOTHER ladder. I don't think that they would even be smart enough to even stand it up again, if you simply kicked it over. I can forgive this one - because I guess they weren't thinking straight, but the next one... 2+3 I'm talking about more like an inner fence In Day, yes there was a massive area around the elevator shaft. But why not build a smaller fence specifically round the shaft or just round the shaft+helicopter pad. There was tons of stuff in the base that they could have used to build a small fence. In Land, once they had the main fence, why not build a second fence inside? Why not guard the buildings? Aren't they at all concerned that a zombie might find a way in by dumb luck (washed ashore in a life jacket, fall on a boat and float across), a bitten supplier stealer who doesn't fess up, somebody who just dies and comes back (bites aren't necessary to zombify?), a zombie crawling thru a sewer, whatever? The thing is, there is zero redundancy - any slight error, and the zombies are in, and they're EVERYWHERE. 4. I agree with what you say. But why not chain or tie them up all the time? They must have restrained them in some way to get the collars on and get them in the coral? And why put them in a HUGE dark area where you can't see what they're doing? 3) In Land, more than your point I wonder how come if this is three years into the outbreak, how could they have built any fence at all with zombies all over the place? The one military guy says something like "they dont come around here much anymore" impying that they used to. Was it like "hold on there horde of zombies, I am currently building this fence. Give me a second and I will be right with you, then you can try to eat me". I think that it's possible. People dug trenches and redoubts and so on, when under enemy attack in the past. One team builds, the other team holds off the zombies with gunfire while they build. Heavy casualties may be involved, but you could get the job done if 1. You pick a place which has relatively few zombies to build your fence (And maybe there are few zombies here, because they know this is where they'll get shot in the head by people with machine guns). 2. You distract the zombies while building your fence. Wasn't much of the Berlin Wall built over 1 night? So, in one night, you go firework crazy,and throw up a basic fence quickly. 3. You can build a bit at a time. Let's say you have squads of troops that clear out 3X3 city blocks. In the middle block you fence off that bit - no zombies there. Then as you clear a bit more, and keep extending the fence.

[Philly_SWAT]

Well, again, part of these kinds of problems are due to the very nature of story telling in a movie. In Night, it would have been much smarter for the people in the farmhouse to all go upstairs, then destroy the stairs to where zombies couldnt get up, then in the morning they would have all been alive, and the sheriff and his posse would have cleared out all the zombies and everyone (except for Karen, but thats a different question) would be alive and well. That being said, it would have been a boring movie to see them just sitting upstairs for an hour and a half.

[Doc Liberty]

Yep. Solution: Set the story in a 1 storey house? I kind of wish that in the Dawn remake the zombies could have climbed. It would have been crazy, to see the fast zombies climbing up the mall wall (maybe badly, or maybe like ants, or maybe simply piling on top of each other until the top ones are high enough) trying to get to the roof, and the survivors trying to stop them getting in. That also would have given a better reason for the survivors to flee the mall. I'd like to write a zombie story without these kind of holes. So I have a big interest in them

[DEAD BEAT]

It'd be a lot more scary in the Dawn remake if the zombies could climb! Also in the original Dawn in made sense at the end to leave the mall. In the remake I never had much sympathy for the characters - they were so dumb especially at the end. They decided to leave an island (the mall), full of goodies, completely safe, albeit surrounded by zombies - for an island that don't know exists, has no goodies, is probably unsafe, and at best will be surrounded by zombies. hell no! thats all we need is fricken climbing zombies,may as well get them to mow my fuuckin lawn while were at it!

[SymphonicX]

1. In Dawn: Zombies don't climb. So why don't the survivors make better effort to protect their upstairs bolt hole. I would have knocked out a section of the stairs and used a ladder to get into the upstairs room - I seem to remember they even had ladder in the room. This seems a lot more zombie-proof than building a false wall. As previously stated, yeah they do climb - they climb ladders but I have no problem with them doing this as it pretty much qualifies as one of those basic human functions that the zombies remember. 2. In Day: There is one high security fence (actually it looks pretty flimsy to me - but I guess that's the budget) round the base, which could give way if all Florida's zombies start turning up. There are a bunch of soldiers in the base, apparently there were more before, and they've been there for a while. My question: Why don't they build better defenses? Another fence within the fence? A wall within a wall? If you look at any castle or military fortification it always has concentric layers of defense, so a minor breach doesn't lead to total loss. Wouldn't it occur to soldiers that, putting your survival on a single fence have thought of this? Well the strength of the fence wasn't in question in day, but I guess you have to consider that A) they're on an island and B) even if the fence did break they're still undergound and there's no way for the zombies to get to them unless they take the lift down, which isn't exactly possible - one could assume it would be fairly easy as far as zombie plagues go, to travel up the lift and get an idea of what's happened if the fence did break and simply forget the lift and take the alternative route through the silo... 3. In Land: Basically same point as #2. They are relying on a single flimsy looking electric fence (given that they haven't thought of the zombies crossing the rivers). What if they power goes off? That's why they had armed guards - one can only assume that a contingency plan would have been in place for a break through if the power failed, but what they didn't count on was the zombies figuring it out and going through the river.... 4. In Day: Doesn't that fenced off bit of cave with zombies seem dumb? The first time that I saw the movie, I thought at first that cave must lead a tunnel through to the surface, and the zombies had just wondered in. Until I saw they had a list of zombies in the cave. Think about it: Somebody must have gone got a zombie from outside - presumably at great risk - tied up it, gagged its mouth, (well at least restrained it in some way) carried it through the base, and released it into the walled off-cave. And when they released it, they removed the restraints. Why not leave the restraints on? It's not like a zoo animal where you need to release its restraints so it can breathe/eat/move, or because you want to avoid cruelty. And if you're bring zombies in from outside, why stick them in a dark cave where you can't see what's going on. I always assumed they went up on top and let a certain number of zombies into the complex then led them down into the silo simply by walking faster than them....the undead are always going to follow - how they got them down there remains a mystery to me though....as for the restraints, didn't they have neck braces with a metal hoop on them for snagging? Also, where else would you stick them? Its a horror movie, do the dark areas just serve to play on one's sense of claustrophobia...I think sticking them in the cave was a good idea as it gives them something to wander around in, not being excited by seeing humans walking about every five seconds if they were holed up in a lab with flurescent lighting... 5. Dawn Remake: How dumb is Andy? I mean to open the panel on the door to get the dog. I would have made a rope and cradle type thing and tried to scoop the dog up with that. Well, Dawn 05 is stupid anyway! 6. Dawn Remake: I'm not sure I'm into fast zombies anyway, but I didn't find them believable because their behavior was inconsistent. At the beginning the zombie little girl and boyfriend go absolutely maniac. Apart from running - jumping around, trying to dive thru a Window, etc. But once the zombies are outside the mall, they can see Andy and the mall-rats on the mall roof, and yet just sort of stumble around doing nothing. I think to be consistent these zombies should be going crazy: bashing themselves against the glass doors until they turn themselves into a pulp, trying (maybe unsuccessfully) to climb walls or drain pipes, etc. Hmm, well as I said - its a stupid movie full of inconsistencies.

[7734]

Did I miss the meeting where we figured the DayOTD bunker was below an island? I may be wrong, but I don't remeber a single part of the movie that led me to believe that. But then again, i just follow without thinking much.

[Chakobsa]

Did I miss the meeting where we figured the DayOTD bunker was below an island? I may be wrong, but I don't remeber a single part of the movie that led me to believe that. But then again, i just follow without thinking much. You beat me to it man. I was just thinking the very same thing. where exactly in the film is there any mention of the base being on an island? if it is on an island why is Rhodes in such a hurry to bug out? An island would have an isolated zombie population that isn't likely to get any bigger, therefore the thing to do would be to use the chopper to survey the island, get a rough idea of numbers, then send the soldiers out to eliminate them. Once all that's out of the way use the chopper to stock up with goodies and hey presto; a secure bunker on an island. Given the circumstances who could ask for a better hideout?

[Philly_SWAT]

Did I miss the meeting where we figured the DayOTD bunker was below an island? I may be wrong, but I don't remeber a single part of the movie that led me to believe that. But then again, i just follow without thinking much. Well, this is a tricky subject to get into. Those scenes were filmed on Sanibel Island, not far from Ft. Myers. Now, neither Sanibel Island or Ft. Myers is mentioned in the movie, so is our cast actually in those locations, or are they supposed to be somewhere else? Hard to say. Just like in Dawn, they never mention Monroeville...is that where the Mall was, or was it just supposed to be a mall in an undisclosed location? You can plainly see the MM Monroeville Mall logo on the doors. I dont think that the word "Florida" is ever used in the movie either. There is a map of Florida on the map of their meeting room, even though that room is in the old mine in Wampum, PA. That is why we have to assume the movie has a setting of Florida. With that being said, I live in Florida, and I can tell you that there are not many, if any, underground bunkers in the whole State, as most of the State isnt that far above sea level, and any basement type bunker would flood. I believe that GAR used to have a home on Sanibel Island, so that is probably why some of the movie was shot there and in Ft. Myers. But is the opening scene supposed to even be Ft . Myers? It isnt mentioned, and we dont see a big sign that says "Fort Myers", so is it set there, or just a undisclosed movie location? Downtown Ft. Myers looks pretty much the same as it did in the movie. As for Sanibel Island, there is a big bridge over there that allows vehicle traffic, so in theory zombies could walk across the bridge to get to the bunker. Our heros could have destroyed that bridge, but then a land escape would be cut off in case there was a problem with the chopper. Or if the chopper crashed on everyone got killed on a search mission, the bunker inhabitants would have no means to leave the island os the bridge was gone. If the soldiers eliminated the zombies as Chakobsa suggested, there would be no more "specimens" to bring back into the complex. It is mentioned how Logan is going thru too may of them, and the men might refuse to go out "in the wild" to get any more. If there were none on the island, they would have to go all the way to the mainland to get some. Also, I think that Bill says something like "Over on the mainland, all the shopping malls are closed". You wouldnt refer to the mainland if you were in fact on the mainland, therefore I think you have to take it that they are on some island, if not Sanibel Island.

[Griff]

1. In Dawn: Zombies don't climb. So why don't the survivors make better effort to protect their upstairs bolt hole. I would have knocked out a section of the stairs and used a ladder to get into the upstairs room - I seem to remember they even had ladder in the room. This seems a lot more zombie-proof than building a false wall. I believe the main intention is to hide evidence of their existance from humans, not zombies ("Looters, maybe ...I don't want anybody to know that stairway exists"). Afterall, they've already eradicated every ghoul inside the complex so, theoretically, there's nothing to fear from the dead. The living, on the other hand... 2. In Day: There is one high security fence (actually it looks pretty flimsy to me - but I guess that's the budget) round the base, which could give way if all Florida's zombies start turning up. There are a bunch of soldiers in the base, apparently there were more before, and they've been there for a while. My question: Why don't they build better defenses? Another fence within the fence? A wall within a wall? If you look at any castle or military fortification it always has concentric layers of defense, so a minor breach doesn't lead to total loss. Wouldn't it occur to soldiers that, putting your survival on a single fence have thought of this? Its suggested that the soldiers occassionally 'execute' some of the zombies around the perimeter to keep the numbers down and the remainders docile. And, yes, while another layer of defense would be wise, its reasonable to assume that this was either a) not possible for the characters to erect, b) beyond the scope of DAY's budget or, most likely, c) superfluous detail not essential to the narrative (unlike DAWN where these logistical details drive the narrative at times). I believe this also addresses your 3rd & 4th concerns. I have no answer for your DAWN remake questions, however. It used whatever means it had at its disposal to keep the movie going simply because, regretfully, it had no real story/theme/narrative to drive it. It was one set piece after the other with tenuous links between them - an approach, it would seem, that is fun for some but insulting for others.

[SymphonicX]

1. In Dawn: Zombies don't climb. So why don't the survivors make better effort to protect their upstairs bolt hole. I would have knocked out a section of the stairs and used a ladder to get into the upstairs room - I seem to remember they even had ladder in the room. This seems a lot more zombie-proof than building a false wall. I believe the main intention is to hide evidence of their existance from humans, not zombies ("Looters, maybe ...I don't want anybody to know that stairway exists"). Afterall, they've already eradicated every ghoul inside the complex so, theoretically, there's nothing to fear from the dead. The living, on the other hand... 2. In Day: There is one high security fence (actually it looks pretty flimsy to me - but I guess that's the budget) round the base, which could give way if all Florida's zombies start turning up. There are a bunch of soldiers in the base, apparently there were more before, and they've been there for a while. My question: Why don't they build better defenses? Another fence within the fence? A wall within a wall? If you look at any castle or military fortification it always has concentric layers of defense, so a minor breach doesn't lead to total loss. Wouldn't it occur to soldiers that, putting your survival on a single fence have thought of this? Its suggested that the soldiers occassionally 'execute' some of the zombies around the perimeter to keep the numbers down and the remainders docile. And, yes, while another layer of defense would be wise, its reasonable to assume that this was either a) not possible for the characters to erect, b) beyond the scope of DAY's budget or, most likely, c) superfluous detail not essential to the narrative (unlike DAWN where these logistical details drive the narrative at times). I believe this also addresses your 3rd & 4th concerns. I have no answer for your DAWN remake questions, however. It used whatever means it had at its disposal to keep the movie going simply because, regretfully, it had no real story/theme/narrative to drive it. It was one set piece after the other with tenuous links between them - an approach, it would seem, that is fun for some but insulting for others. Beautiful post, nicely said \m/

[Doc Liberty]

If the soldiers eliminated the zombies as Chakobsa suggested, there would be no more "specimens" to bring back into the complex. It is mentioned how Logan is going thru too may of them, and the men might refuse to go out "in the wild" to get any more. If there were none on the island, they would have to go all the way to the mainland to get some. They were tons of zombies outside the fence. hundreds? thousands?. If there were on an island and no more zombies were coming, it would have made sense to thin them out. Shoot 900 out 1000 and leave the rest outside. It would reduce the threat and the pressure on the fence. That makes me think, there must be someway for more zombies to arrive. So it can't be an ISOLATED island. It could still be an island connected to the mainland via causeways and/or bridges. Second thing, they mention they are in the Seminole Storage Facility Third, they also say they had gone 100 miles up and down the coast in the helicoper, if I remember right. I think that implies they can't be in the panhandle, or at the very Southern tip of Florida. So my theory, maybe they are on an island, connected by causeway near Seminole Florida. Take a look at a map and look what the Gulf Blvd causeway connects, lots of islands. ( won't let me post a URL - go to maps.google.com and type Seminole Florida)