I've been having a think about the back-half of Season 3 - an alternative layout...

[MinionZombie]

So I've just got 3 episodes of season 3 left to go in my marathon re-watch ahead of Season 4's premiere, and I've been having a think about the pacing issues of the back half of the season. These issues don't crop up until 3x11 (the episode where Andrea goes to the prison), then 3x12 is perfect as-is, but then 3x13 stretches a good idea to double the length it should have been, and 3x14 was a big old mis-step. However, many of the things that happen - e.g. Andrea heading back to the prison, her falling out with The Governor - need to happen and are a natural progression of the story, but they could have been moved around, after leaving 3x09 and 3x10 almost entirely as they currently are. So, I was thinking about how I'd re-arrange the events of 3x11, 3x13, and 3x14. * Andrea's visit to the prison could have been combined with her being sent out as an envoy on The Governor's behalf to establish a time-and-place for a meeting - it could be handled in such a way that she's not sure of how the skirmish went down, just that something bad happened and a 'peace talk' is required. You'd get to keep the good stuff of having her re-united with her old friends, who have now changed so much, with Andrea precariously positioned on the enemy side by chance and fate. * The above would be 1/3 to 1/2 of an episode, with the remaining 1/2 to 2/3 being the events of 3x13. Rick and The Governor meet face to face (again, a must-have event for the season), but Andrea is ousted from proceedings after being led to believe by TG that she'd be actively involved. At the same time she'd come to realise that (somewhat similarly to the existing 3x11) the skirmish wasn't quite as TG said it was, and also that other events went down (Maggie). In her face-to-face with Hershel, she'd continue in the vein of being stuck between a rock and a hard place, and Hershel (perhaps acting on Carol's recommendation) could give Andrea a knife and suggest she go back with Team Woodbury and get close to him and snuff him out - a moral dilemma for Biblical Hershel, but perhaps a touch of Old Testament wrath/best of two bad options. * At this point Andrea could say something like "I've never killed anyone before!" - Hershel replies "You've killed untold numbers of..." - Andrea "There's a big difference between..." etc ... Hershel is still somewhat clinging to his original belief system, but with the practical eye of the situation at hand, while Andrea views the walkers as just meat and not formerly people with entire lives that were destroyed, and it would also flag up to the viewer that Andrea had indeed never killed a human being before (which was why she didn't stab him at the end of 3x11). * Fast forward to them back at Woodbury after the meeting. She's close to him, but the gravity of the situation gives her pause - then TG wakes up - CUT TO BLACK. * Then: Episode 3x12 as-is. Rick knows that the meeting with TG was all mouth and no trousers, so he needs guns. We go the whole episode not knowing what the hell happened to Andrea. * Then: Episode 3x15 almost entirely as-is (except where above changed events affect sub-plots here, thus requiring small tweaks). Merle still takes things into his own hands to try and snuff out TG ahead of schedule, fails, but still finds redemption at the 11th hour and goes out swinging. At the end of the episode we discover that Andrea has been captured, bound, and is being held hostage (possibly even tortured) by The Governor. * Then: Episode 3x16 pretty much as-is, but with earlier episodes leaning less towards the suggestion of all-out war (leading the audience to strongly believe that was going to happen was a bit cheeky/a mistake ... generally I liked the direction and meaning of the episode though). However, I would add in a bit more to the skirmish. This is just a rough outline which also misses out certain subplots (e.g. Tyreese & Co), which I haven't had the time to think about yet, but this was just a brief summary of what I was thinking about for the main plot. Of course, this does lose about 2 episode's worth of content - you'd either have to have a shorter season, OR you could add in new content earlier in the back-half ... perhaps some sort of event that could be played out twice over two episodes, but from different perspectives - one episode from Team Prison's viewpoint, the other episode being the same events from Team Woodbury's viewpoint (which would also allow us a good opportunity to really get to know the likes of Martinez and Shumpert, perhaps also Milton being the odd-man-out with these two tough guys out in the red zone for some purpose ... maybe Andrea could be involved somehow, and then we're shown at the end of the episode that Milton is informing TG about Andrea's actions and words behind her back, rather than knowing about that up-front as in 3x11). You could also have a subplot back at Woodbury with a split in Tyreese's group - Ty & Sasha versus Allen & Ben regarding their decision to sell-out Team Prison with insider information to TG. Perhaps the above could include Martinez & Co stumbling across Tyreese & Co, finding out they were at the prison ("we ran into some crazy guy in a prison"), sending them back to Woodbury (maybe not have Andrea in this part of the episode), and then scouting out the prison (perhaps even trying to find a way in that'd be safe and subtle - i.e. not that massive gaping, walker-infested hole in the Admin block). Anyway - just some thoughts, mostly relating to re-arranging current events in some of the episodes of the back half. I think it's too dismissive (and unfair and overly harsh) to write off the entire back half as a single entity as there's lots of good stuff in there (including two of the best episodes of the season, if not the entire series: 3x12 and 3x15), but it's just the overall pacing and organisation for four of the episodes that is rather wobbly. What are your thoughts on my thoughts? Any ideas on what could fill in the gap left by exising two episodes worth of content (what would you do and where would you place it inside the back eight)?

[babomb]

Any ideas on what could fill in the gap left by exising two episodes worth of content (what would you do and where would you place it inside the back eight)? Some sexually charged, scantily clad, female only interactions. Even if they're just dream sequences. Sorry MZ, my fingers typed that and I couldn't stop them. Interesting thoughts though. Especially the idea of showing an event from the perspectives of both teams.

[MinionZombie]

Oh, babomb, you saucy bastard. I finished off the last three episodes of season 3 in my re-watch marathon last night. 3x14 is entirely filler, and from what I can remember, there was talk that 3x14 was the episode on which production had to shut down for a couple of days because there wasn't any script pages to shoot - it certainly shows - long scenes with not much dialogue that don't really push things forward. Everything worthwhile thematically that happened in the episode could have easily been incorporated elsewhere (some of which is outlined in my first post). 3x15 can definitely stay as-is - it's an excellent episode - you'd just have to work in the stuff about the walker pits to the re-jigged overall plot of the back half. 3x16 - just a little tweak to add a bit more warfare to the skirmish, I think, and certainly one change - never have Andrea stop trying to free herself when talking/looking at Milton. The first time it happens it's very brief, and that's passable, but it happens four times during the episode, the last two being particularly piss-takey in the length of inactivity on Andrea's part to try and free herself - yes, you'd have movement and sound effects over the dialogue, but nobody would stop trying to free themselves with a ticking Milton clock slouched in front of them. Apart from that 3x16 is good - it's more of an emotional catharsis for Rick (getting over Lori, accepting other people into the mix, dismantling the Ricktatorship), while also setting his decisions at odds with Carl (he's non-plussed by the bus load of Woodburyites, even though it is indeed the good thing to do), plus he shoots that kid in the face so there's a lot of meat to chew on there, and Andrea's last scene is really quite emotional (Rick's insistence on "us" rather than "them", Michonne's grief, and that Andrea will finally be going home to Amy, and that she stayed true to her Civil Rights Lawyer roots even if it ultimately cost Andrea her life).

[Trin]

...Rick knows that the meeting with TG was all mouth and no trousers... I learn all my best new phrases from reading MZ posts on HPOTD. I'm not even 100% sure what this means but I'm going to be using it.

[Andy]

Some good idea's MZ certainly. One thing id add to season 3 is a little bit more from the comics between michonne and the governor. I know alot of it is probably too dark and brutal for TV but even if it was implied or off camera.. Watching season 3, i always felt michonne had some big gripe with the governor for no real reason, you know what i mean?

[Neil]

I learn all my best new phrases from reading MZ posts on HPOTD. I'm not even 100% sure what this means but I'm going to be using it. Let me give you a hand with the usage of that one - "all mouth and no trousers". While the fish was in the toaster, the happy badger was all mouth and no trousers. Help?

[MinionZombie]

I learn all my best new phrases from reading MZ posts on HPOTD. I'm not even 100% sure what this means but I'm going to be using it. Essentially, a lot of talk that's just that, talk with no follow-through on what's been said, or just flat-out lies in TG's case - i.e. his speechifying about leaving the prison alone if they handed over Michonne was all bollocks. TG was always going to attack, no matter what he said to Rick in their meeting. TG was 'all mouth and no trousers'. Some good idea's MZ certainly. One thing id add to season 3 is a little bit more from the comics between michonne and the governor. I know alot of it is probably too dark and brutal for TV but even if it was implied or off camera.. Watching season 3, i always felt michonne had some big gripe with the governor for no real reason, you know what i mean? Mmm, I see what you're getting at ... if they could have tweaked it just a little bit to make it a smidge more personal between the two of them before the mid-season break. He's definitely a no good creep, but it'd be tricky to figure something out - it'd have to be after she left Woodbury otherwise Andrea would find out and then TG's game is blown, but aye, I see what you're getting at. I did kind of ponder that myself when watching the show ... I think now she has enough reason to want him dead, he's a bad guy that shouldn't be left alive out there, but also because she has a personal vengeance to exercise due to Andrea's demise ... but yes, if there could have been something a bit more personal earlier on in the season, her obsession with offing him would have held a smidge more water. On the other hand, as-is, she knows something is wrong with Woodbury, but she can't quite prove it - certainly not to Andrea - and she was still quite 'shut down' as a character, so it was more a case of act first and think later, regardless of bringing anyone along with you for the ride by convincing them your theory is true. She then learned that and realised she can't just barge in like a bull in a china shop. Yeah ... a small tweak could have been good there. While the fish was in the toaster, the happy badger was all mouth and no trousers. Even I'm confused by that one!

[Andy]

Also, maybe a contraversial one but personally i would have loved to have shane in season 3 instead of merle.. I posted a while ago i thought a good alternative story would have been if shane left the group at the end of season 2 with randal, and it turned out randals group was the woodbury group. Imagine ricks face when he finds out, imagine shane's reaction when he finds out lori is dead.. would provide an extra level of tension and drama between the 2 groups wouldnt it?