TWD 7x12 "Say Yes" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN*

[MinionZombie]

Please keep all talk of episode 7x12 "Say Yes" specifically inside this thread. If you have a theory for a following episode, please use the "spoiler tags" (visit the HPOTD FAQ to find out how to use them if you don't already know). Similarly, if you're going to discuss plot points from the comic book, please use "spoiler tags" - not everyone is up-to-date on them, and some people don't read them at all. Enjoy! Directed by: Greg Nicotero Written by: Matthew Negrete Only five more episodes left in Season 7 (including this one).

[facestabber]

A Michonne and Rick bottle episode......fine by me. What an entertaining episode. 1. Don't trust the turds at garbage land 2. Rosita and Sasha's adventure will be fatal. Sorry Moon. 3. Michonne is, has been and always will be the best warrior of team family.

[katholiday]

“Say Yes” / Air-date: 5 March 2017 /*SPOILER WARNING!* -A very quiet episode indeed! -Forgetting Coral and the rest of the Scooby gang for awhile... Rick and Michonne have an epiphany when they decide to drop in on a county fair… Some fun and games ensue and before you know it… Rick and Michonne are carnival barkers! “Step right up, Step right up! ...and see the wonderful-fantastic decapitating machine! -They arrive back at Alexandria flush with some dirty weapons, a little humiliated... and a little sticky… -Turning over their cache of weapons to Jadis, Rick informs her, “We’re all in this together…!” -Not much else to report, Tara talks to Rosita… Rosita decides to go out looking for some weapons. She finds nothing… -Later talking to Father Gabriel she still finds nothing. After a long talk with Judith, Tara is convinced she needs to do nothing… ...and nothing else happens. Bottom line… Rick gets laid. Again.

[Moon Knight]

A Michonne and Rick bottle episode......fine by me. What an entertaining episode. 1. Don't trust the turds at garbage land 2. Rosita and Sasha's adventure will be fatal. Sorry Moon. 3. Michonne is, has been and always will be the best warrior of team family. Nah, they ain't killing Rosita yet. Too predictable. I sense a swerve.

[JDP]

They pulled another "fake death" trick on this episode

[MinionZombie]

That was a really enjoyable episode, and it was nice to have a bit of light-heartedness seep in, too. This felt, in some ways, like that Rick/Daryl episode last season (when they first encountered Jesus), and it was ruddy good fun - we got to indulge our 'scavenging in the ZA' fantasies a bit, and it was nice to see them being confronted with a challenge, figuring out a plan, and enacting it (even if it did go arse-up for a spell). Rosita - and now Sasha - are acting selfishly, Rosita especially. She doesn't see the woods for the trees. She says that if she'd shot Negan earlier then Eugene wouldn't have been taken, and both Spencer and Olivia would be alive ... ... not so fast, Miss Espinosa. Spencer was gutted because of his own actions trying to seduce Negan into an anti-Rick pact (to be fair, Rosita wasn't particularly privy to those discussions, but still, they were chumming it up hard on Rick's porch for all to see). Meanwhile, Olivia died as a direct result of her attempted assassination of Negan - and Eugene was taken away as a direct result of her action as well. Father Gabriel should have laid down some truth. Might Sasha's shot be the one to start the war? They pulled another "fake death" trick on this episode If anyone in the audience truly believed Rick was dead then Lord help them through this life, 'cos they'll need it. We the audience knew he was just fine - you wouldn't kill your main character off-screen - but Michonne didn't know, and that was the point (and we were viewing that moment through her). It leads directly into their heart-to-heart in the van - they're having to deal with the possibility that they probably will lose people close to them as a result of their impending war, and either one of them could lose their newfound partner in life. That's a heavy load to deal with, and it was vital to see Michonne's reaction to that: she utterly froze, dropped her weapon, and lost all hope. Would it go down like that a second time around, if such a thing was to happen? Not so sure, the edge of the shock might have been taken off a bit by that encounter to allow her to function if such a situation arose again.

[Moon Knight]

They pulled another "fake death" trick on this episode Not really. That was done to get a feel for how Michonne will react if Rick dies; leading into the conversation back in the van once they escaped unharmed. - - - Updated - - - That was a really enjoyable episode, and it was nice to have a bit of light-heartedness seep in, too. This felt, in some ways, like that Rick/Daryl episode last season (when they first encountered Jesus), and it was ruddy good fun - we got to indulge our 'scavenging in the ZA' fantasies a bit, and it was nice to see them being confronted with a challenge, figuring out a plan, and enacting it (even if it did go arse-up for a spell). Rosita - and now Sasha - are acting selfishly, Rosita especially. She doesn't see the woods for the trees. She says that if she'd shot Negan earlier then Eugene wouldn't have been taken, and both Spencer and Olivia would be alive ... ... not so fast, Miss Espinosa. Spencer was gutted because of his own actions trying to seduce Negan into an anti-Rick pact (to be fair, Rosita wasn't particularly privy to those discussions, but still, they were chumming it up hard on Rick's porch for all to see). Meanwhile, Olivia died as a direct result of her attempted assassination of Negan - and Eugene was taken away as a direct result of her action as well. Father Gabriel should have laid down some truth. Might Sasha's shot be the one to start the war? If anyone in the audience truly believed Rick was dead then Lord help them through this life, 'cos they'll need it. We the audience knew he was just fine - you wouldn't kill your main character off-screen - but Michonne didn't know, and that was the point (and we were viewing that moment through her). It leads directly into their heart-to-heart in the van - they're having to deal with the possibility that they probably will lose people close to them as a result of their impending war, and either one of them could lose their newfound partner in life. That's a heavy load to deal with, and it was vital to see Michonne's reaction to that: she utterly froze, dropped her weapon, and lost all hope. Would it go down like that a second time around, if such a thing was to happen? Not so sure, the edge of the shock might have been taken off a bit by that encounter to allow her to function if such a situation arose again. I should have read your response first haha.

[MinionZombie]

The more I think about this episode, the more I dig it (and I was already digging it from the get-go). The Rick/Michonne convo in the van was really good - I liked that we got a glimpse inside Rick's head, seeing him sleepless beside Michonne, and then him talking about Glenn and calling back to the very beginning and the tank situation. It was quite funny, too - the windshield walker in particular. It was nice to see the Richonne chemistry, and it was their Honeymoon of sorts, wasn't it? Their first time being alone since they got together. There was almost a hint of Rick not wanting to go back to Alexandria, like he just wanted to live this simple life as long as he could. Not that he ever would abandon Alexandria, but you can understand why he was enjoying it so much - it was a vacation out from under Negan's boot for a spell. I still don't like these Scavenger folk in-so-far as they give me a bad vibe, they've not earned my trust. In some ways it was kind of like TWD does Zombieland with the carnival thing. I wonder what the backstory to all that was, the military guys, the gun fight, the walkers with their wrists tied (probably when they were still human). And oh, that manky walker that Rosita had to deal with ... gross. Not really. That was done to get a feel for how Michonne will react if Rick dies; leading into the conversation back in the van once they escaped unharmed. - - - Updated - - - I should have read your response first haha. Great minds think alike, Moon. ... TWD 7x12 Memes:   http://deadshed.blogspot.co.uk/2017/...dead-7x12.html

[Moon Knight]

Haha indeed, MZ. My favorite part of the episode was Rick talking about Glenn and the call back to the first season. I was waiting for that and worried they wouldn't include it. It's the small things I enjoy. I wish the Creepshow nod was a bit better but I still appreciate it. I really like Tara as a character. She seems like someone that would make a great friend. Cute girl too. This turned into a bit of a filller episode as just as we thought it was gonna move the story ahead it stalls yet again. More guns? Really? Screw those heapsters. However, even as a filler episode, I enjoyed it. The ending was cool.

[JDP]

Rosita - and now Sasha - are acting selfishly, Rosita especially. She doesn't see the woods for the trees. She says that if she'd shot Negan earlier then Eugene wouldn't have been taken, and both Spencer and Olivia would be alive ... ... not so fast, Miss Espinosa. Spencer was gutted because of his own actions trying to seduce Negan into an anti-Rick pact (to be fair, Rosita wasn't particularly privy to those discussions, but still, they were chumming it up hard on Rick's porch for all to see). Meanwhile, Olivia died as a direct result of her attempted assassination of Negan - and Eugene was taken away as a direct result of her action as well. Father Gabriel should have laid down some truth. Rosita's intention was to kill Negan before any such things could happen. Because she paid attention to Father Gabriel she delayed the assassination attempt. She tossed Father Gabriel's advice out the window and took a shot at Negan out of rage only after he killed Spencer in front of the rest of the Alexandrians. That is what she is complaining about and blaming Father Gabriel for. Had she not taken his advice, she would have taken a shot at Negan quite before any of that. If anyone in the audience truly believed Rick was dead then Lord help them through this life, 'cos they'll need it. We the audience knew he was just fine - you wouldn't kill your main character off-screen - but Michonne didn't know, and that was the point (and we were viewing that moment through her). It leads directly into their heart-to-heart in the van - they're having to deal with the possibility that they probably will lose people close to them as a result of their impending war, and either one of them could lose their newfound partner in life. That's a heavy load to deal with, and it was vital to see Michonne's reaction to that: she utterly froze, dropped her weapon, and lost all hope. Would it go down like that a second time around, if such a thing was to happen? Not so sure, the edge of the shock might have been taken off a bit by that encounter to allow her to function if such a situation arose again. I am not entirely buying it because if that was truly their only intention they would have shown us (the viewers, not Michonne) Rick actually escaping the encroaching zombies and the deer being killed and eaten instead. The way the scene is shown the deceit is also thrown at us, the viewers, not just to Michonne. Sure, no viewer really bought it, but the attempt at the "suspense/cliffhanger" of whether Rick was really dead or not was directed at us as well.

[Moon Knight]

No way, the show runners can't be that stupid and try another fake out death and Rick wouldn't be killed off screen in season 7 during the Negan storyline. Also, that was the only reason for the deer in the first place. That moment was simply for Michonne and not the viewer. It was shot that way so viewers can understand Michonne's POV. As far as Rosita, I agree with JDP. She's also suffering from some serious Survivir's guilt. Perhaps Sasha is too.

[DayoftheZ]

No way, the show runners can't be that stupid and try another fake out death and Rick wouldn't be killed off screen in season 7 during the Negan storyline. Also, that was the only reason for the deer in the first place. That moment was simply for Michonne and not the viewer. It was shot that way so viewers can understand Michonne's POV. As far as Rosita, I agree with JDP. She's also suffering from some serious Survivir's guilt. Perhaps Sasha is too. Don’t see the issue myself, if they had put it as a cliff-hanger and not solved it within the episode I would have gone mental. I am really enjoying this season still but like many others I am not enjoying the new and plentiful groups of people. I think we would have been much better with just Alexandria, Hilltop and The Kingdom vs The Saviours. Oceanside as standalone episode worked but now with the scavengers it all feels like overkill. This was always a weakness in the comics too so it is not a show exclusive, when the world opened up a little the walkers became background noise and as that is what brings us all here It starts to lose its appeal a little. I stopped reading the comics after a few pages of Volume 22 because I knew that was it for me, they were running out of ideas and I am deeply concerned that this may at some point happen with the TV series. Having read brief descriptions of the remaining volumes I think it may be wise to stray away from the comics as much as possible. All that said, the TV versions of Negan, Dwight, Jesus and Ezekiel are miles better than their comic versions so hopefully there will be enough there to carry through the unravelling plot. Volumes 20 and 21 didn’t really grab me all that much either and so far the TV version is so I have hope still.

[MinionZombie]

I am not entirely buying it because if that was truly their only intention they would have shown us (the viewers, not Michonne) Rick actually escaping the encroaching zombies and the deer being killed and eaten instead. The way the scene is shown the deceit is also thrown at us, the viewers, not just to Michonne. Sure, no viewer really bought it, but the attempt at the "suspense/cliffhanger" of whether Rick was really dead or not was directed at us as well. No way, the show runners can't be that stupid and try another fake out death and Rick wouldn't be killed off screen in season 7 during the Negan storyline. Also, that was the only reason for the deer in the first place. That moment was simply for Michonne and not the viewer. It was shot that way so viewers can understand Michonne's POV. ^^^ What Moon says. Not showing Rick wasn't for our benefit, it was for Michonne's benefit (although "benefit" is a shit word to describe it, but you know what I mean). It's a tool in coverage & editing to partially transplant the audience into Michonne's perspective for a few moments. We see Rick's hidey hole when Michonne sees it. There was an interesting comment by Yvette Nicole Brown on Talking Dead (she's one of their best recurring guests) - she mentioned little thematic 'callbacks' during the episode that kind of play like an echo of Rick's journey thus far, and the show in general thus far. I'm not sure if it was thought out quite that much, but some of it was certainly intended (e.g. the roof collapse). As soon as they stepped on it I flashed back to the Season 4 premiere. I am really enjoying this season still but like many others I am not enjoying the new and plentiful groups of people. I think we would have been much better with just Alexandria, Hilltop and The Kingdom vs The Saviours. Oceanside as standalone episode worked but now with the scavengers it all feels like overkill. This was always a weakness in the comics too so it is not a show exclusive, when the world opened up a little the walkers became background noise and as that is what brings us all here It starts to lose its appeal a little. I stopped reading the comics after a few pages of Volume 22 because I knew that was it for me, they were running out of ideas and I am deeply concerned that this may at some point happen with the TV series. Having read brief descriptions of the remaining volumes I think it may be wise to stray away from the comics as much as possible. All that said, the TV versions of Negan, Dwight, Jesus and Ezekiel are miles better than their comic versions so hopefully there will be enough there to carry through the unravelling plot. Volumes 20 and 21 didn’t really grab me all that much either and so far the TV version is so I have hope still. 1) Aye - Oceanside and The Scavengers I'm not connecting with. The others are all in the comics and have that grounding to anchor them in the show (and as a foundation on which to build from, too). 2) It's fair to say that in the comics the zombie threat has diminished considerably. I don't think they'll really do that so much in the show - they need to keep that element alive until the final few episodes of the entire series (I'd like to see the show end as the walker threat is waning through time and decay, and ... well, I've mentioned how I'd like the ending to play out elsewhere on a few occasions...) - as for the current big threat in the comics, NO SPOILERS, but it's one of the weaker plot lines in the run, I gotta say. It has taken me a long time to bed into it and only recently in the last Trade Paperback did I start getting into it (after, what, 12 to 18 issues worth - i.e. 2-3 volumes worth - of not really feeling it). Hopefully the show will change that whole arc up as it does feel a bit like Kirkman's running out of juice and running out of hours in the day to really devote to it. To be honest, the comic really feels like it needs to be wrapped up now. I don't see how there's much juice left to squeeze from it. We've come a long way and I think it's time for the end game in the comics now so we can go out strong. 3) I enjoyed the comic book versions of those four characters, but I do agree that the show has been able to flesh them out further. Getting a whole slew of people involved - the actors themselves most notably on top of that pile - then you get so much more texture and richness out of the material. You can get so far with just the writer (in this case Kirkman), but with a bunch of added writers working alongside Kirkman in the forum of an adaptation PLUS the input of the producers, directors, and the actors (of course!) you find all sorts of new material to explore and meat to chew on. Just the fact that they're living, breathing, three dimensional human beings in colour brings them closer to 'our world' and further away from the barrier between us and the printed page.

[Moon Knight]

Characters that are better in the book imo: Tyreese, Andrea, Carl, and Sophia. Characters better in the show: Carol, Morgan, Hershel, The Governor, Abraham, Rosita, Eugene, Gabriel, Aaron, The Hunters, Dale, and Bob. Everyone else is pretty much the same. Characters like Jesus, Negan, and Ezekiel are still too new to see where they stand. Dwight so far is much more fleshed out. Others like Sasha, Beth, Daryl, Merle, and Tara are show exclusives. Haven't see much of Heath at all to tell and Holly only lasted one episode and no dialogue. The Walkers indeed take a backseat in this story on paper. However, the show really does go out of the way to include them into the story as much as possible. This episode is a good example of that.

[shootemindehead]

Have to admit I'm getting kinda bored with the show at the moment. This is another episode that I only half watched, because it just didn't drag me in. I actually can't wait for this season to be over TBH. Because I think the next one will put some meat back on the bones, as it were. This one is just so limp. Another thing. I find the Rick/Michonne romance to be bloody awful. I'm not convinced at all. Perhaps it was because it was all too whizz ping - instant relationship, or something. There was nary a glad eye thrown around and all of a sudden they're rubbing parts together. I don't know what it is. But, I do know it sits wrong with me. How many more episodes left?