Meathook Trio Photo

[darth los]

This is just a thought I had when reading through the biggest bad ass thread. The picture of the men with meathooks got me to thinking. Being a minority myself I'm used to seeing things in a racial context as well. No so much today, but in films and events of that era and such when it was more out in the open. I'm sensitive to the racist back and forth between Cooper and Ben. ( Yes, Blacks and Hispanics can be racist too.) Now, thinking about the three rednecks in that photo, what do you think was going through Ben's mind? I mean, he obviously heard the dogs, that's what seemed to wake him. From the news reports he new that there were search and destroy squads in the area and he heard the gunshots as well. So all the evidence points toward the fact that he knew humans were in the area. Now, being in the rural area he was in he had to know what type of people they were. Conventional wisdom dictates that he would be estatic to be rescued, but he looked anything like that. He seemed just as fearful of the rednecks as he did of the ghouls. Again, think of the era we're discussing. German shepards and firehoses were standard fare in dealing with "uppity" blacks so it's no wonder he didn't run out, arms flailing screaming I'm rescued!!" Now I'm well aware that situations such as these can be interpreted in any number of ways. Any thoughts on this?

[krakenslayer]

This is just a thought I had when reading through the biggest bad ass thread. The picture of the men with meathooks got me to thinking. Being a minority myself I'm used to seeing things in a racial context as well. No so much today, but in films and events of that era and such when it was more out in the open. I'm sensitive to the racist back and forth between Cooper and Ben. ( Yes, Blacks and Hispanics can be racist too.) Now, thinking about the three rednecks in that photo, what do you think was going through Ben's mind? I mean, he obviously heard the dogs, that's what seemed to wake him. From the news reports he new that there were search and destroy squads in the area and he heard the gunshots as well. So all the evidence points toward the fact that he knew humans were in the area. Now, being in the rural area he was in he had to know what type of people they were. Conventional wisdom dictates that he would be estatic to be rescued, but he looked anything like that. He seemed just as fearful of the rednecks as he did of the ghouls. Again, think of the era we're discussing. German shepards and firehoses were standard fare in dealing with "uppity" blacks so it's no wonder he didn't run out, arms flailing screaming I'm rescued!!" Now I'm well aware that situations such as these can be interpreted in any number of ways. Any thoughts on this? I see what you're saying. It's like what prejudice is, indirectly, what killed Ben.

[Skippy911sc]

I take it your speaking of 68 version...That being noted, he should have at least yelled or called out. I do not know the trial of prejudice from that perspective, but I think I would have screamed "I'm in here!!!".

[Trin]

Hearing dogs and recalling hours old news reports is a long ways from assuming there's help outside. We know that the cellar has very limited hearing ability of what's going on upstairs, much less what's going on outside. Ben spent the entire night with ghouls literally breaking down the doors trying to get to him. I think the last thing he does is draw attention to himself by shouting. In my opinion he did what any normal person would do. He crept to a window and cautiously looked out. I don't think he knew what was outside at that point. And thus he couldn't look excited about rescuers any more than he could look fearful over rednecks. The sheriff and redneck crew never do anything to give the impression they would shoot a black man on sight. They didn't seem like gun crazy maniacs who were enjoying it (like the rednecks in Dawn). They just seemed to be doing a job. The sheriff even seemed fairly low key about it all. Ben, also, did not seem the type to assume racial prejudice. If he were I think it would've been evident in his treatment of Mr. Cooper and the others. But he treated them all with respect and no sign of distrust. The most controversial scene in my mind from a racial perspective is when Ben belts Barbra and knocks her out, lays her down on the couch, and then loosens her top. A black man hitting a white woman has got to have raised some eyebrows.

[Debbieangel]

Hearing dogs and recalling hours old news reports is a long ways from assuming there's help outside. We know that the cellar has very limited hearing ability of what's going on upstairs, much less what's going on outside. Ben spent the entire night with ghouls literally breaking down the doors trying to get to him. I think the last thing he does is draw attention to himself by shouting. In my opinion he did what any normal person would do. He crept to a window and cautiously looked out. I don't think he knew what was outside at that point. And thus he couldn't look excited about rescuers any more than he could look fearful over rednecks. The sheriff and redneck crew never do anything to give the impression they would shoot a black man on sight. They didn't seem like gun crazy maniacs who were enjoying it (like the rednecks in Dawn). They just seemed to be doing a job. The sheriff even seemed fairly low key about it all. Ben, also, did not seem the type to assume racial prejudice. If he were I think it would've been evident in his treatment of Mr. Cooper and the others. But he treated them all with respect and no sign of distrust. The most controversial scene in my mind from a racial perspective is when Ben belts Barbra and knocks her out, lays her down on the couch, and then loosens her top. A black man hitting a white woman has got to have raised some eyebrows. That is what I thought to Trin, I couldn't have worded it better myself. I have another thought tho..look at Ben's face as he walks towards the window. He looks abit not all there if you know what I mean? Imagine a bunch of zombies pounding on a thin door wanting to get at you and no other way out but the door they are pounding on? That would be enough to atleast drive you into a deep deep shock. As I said when he was walking to the window he doesn't seem all that cautious to me,abit yes, but look he is right out in the open and they get him right between the eyes. I would think since all the boards are knocked down off of the doors and windows he would have approached in a more crouched position. Thats my thoughts anyway.

[darth los]

I take it your speaking of 68 version...That being noted, he should have at least yelled or called out. I do not know the trial of prejudice from that perspective, but I think I would have screamed "I'm in here!!!". Sorry about that. Yes, it's the 68' version. That was my whole point. Anyone would have high tailed it to the reinforcements but their presence gave Ben pause. He seemed overly cautious in engaging them when they were supposedly there to save the day. If he was thinking they were there to help, don't you think he would have went to them immediately? We never know what Ben actually saw but we do know that the man who shot him had him in his sights. There wasn't a big field of vision through the window that he shot ben through so it's safe to assume ben atleast caught a glimpse of them as well. So he knew with a high probability who was out there yet still was unusually cautious.

[Trin]

I think it was cautious in the respect that he didn't go rushing out the front door. He kept the cellar door within sight, only venturing out the minimum distance to get a vantage point to the outside of the house. If you saw me come bounding out of my bedroom at night when I hear in a noise in the house then you'd understand what "not cautious" is. hehe Your point is good though. Deep shock or simply tired as hell. The man had been fighting for his life all night. I think it's a testament to the acting and directing that they made him appear not fully alert. That was my whole point. Anyone would have high tailed it to the reinforcements but their presence gave Ben pause. He seemed overly cautious in engaging them when they were supposedly there to save the day. If he was thinking they were there to help, don't you think he would have went to them immediately? We never know what Ben actually saw but we do know that the man who shot him had him in his sights. There wasn't a big field of vision through the window that he shot ben through so it's safe to assume ben atleast caught a glimpse of them as well. So he knew with a high probability who was out there yet still was unusually cautious. I think the real question here is when did Ben know it was a rescue party. Did he know that prior to looking out the window or not. My belief/assumption is that Ben didn't know there was a rescue party until AFTER he looked out the window and that we'll never know what his reaction to that would've been because he got shot before he had time to process the info and react. I don't remember the scene to that level of detail, but did we get to see Ben's reaction *after* he looked out the window before he was shot? I thought that the last vision of Ben is as he's leaning down to peer out the window. Who is to say that once he sees the men outside his next reaction wouldn't have been to rush out the door? I'd really like to watch the scene again now.

[darth los]

Hearing dogs and recalling hours old news reports is a long ways from assuming there's help outside. We know that the cellar has very limited hearing ability of what's going on upstairs, much less what's going on outside. Ben spent the entire night with ghouls literally breaking down the doors trying to get to him. I think the last thing he does is draw attention to himself by shouting. In my opinion he did what any normal person would do. He crept to a window and cautiously looked out. I don't think he knew what was outside at that point. And thus he couldn't look excited about rescuers any more than he could look fearful over rednecks. The sheriff and redneck crew never do anything to give the impression they would shoot a black man on sight. They didn't seem like gun crazy maniacs who were enjoying it (like the rednecks in Dawn). They just seemed to be doing a job. The sheriff even seemed fairly low key about it all. Ben, also, did not seem the type to assume racial prejudice. If he were I think it would've been evident in his treatment of Mr. Cooper and the others. But he treated them all with respect and no sign of distrust. The most controversial scene in my mind from a racial perspective is when Ben belts Barbra and knocks her out, lays her down on the couch, and then loosens her top. A black man hitting a white woman has got to have raised some eyebrows. We also witness when Ben hears gunshots go off. So right there we know that HE knows humans are in the area. Because as we all know Zombies don't fire guns. That doesn't happen until Day of the Dead. lol Again, I will direct you guys to the era in which the film was made. Distrust of white people was a part of everyday life. Just being a minority, in this case a black man, in the presence of a bunch of cacausian people (rednecks) with guns is reason enough to be frightened for your life. Just imagine if barbara would have survived and they saw the bruise on her face and got wind of how it got there. Do you think they would have been understanding or threw him on the fire to teach him a lesson? It is in this enviroment and with this mentality that Ben was proceeding with. Also, he had been in that basement all night. For him to unbar the door and go outside he had to feel that there was a good reason to do so. Rescue sqad maybe?

[DubiousComforts]

I don't remember the scene to that level of detail, but did we get to see Ben's reaction *after* he looked out the window before he was shot? I thought that the last vision of Ben is as he's leaning down to peer out the window. Who is to say that once he sees the men outside his next reaction wouldn't have been to rush out the door? It's implied that Ben hasn't actually seen the posse before he's shot. As seen through the battered window, he is pointing the rifle as he slowly moves forward and in the next shot, he simply has a cautious expression on his face. It's also not entirely obvious but the area surrounding the front porch of the farm house is surrounded by large trees which makes it seem like dusk even in daylight. The posse guys are standing off to the side of the front porch; they can see someone moving in the window, but Ben doesn't see them until it's too late.

[Trin]

Okay, so we have dog barks and gunshots. And we don't hear anything actually inside the house. I think that's enough to unbar the cellar door and go have a peek to see what the situation is outside. I don't think it's enough to assume it's a rescue squad. If it were me I'd keep that cellar door close and I'd make as little noise as possible as I assess the situation outside. There could be a rescue squad. Or there could be 1000 ghouls around one guy with a gun and a dog. I also don't think there's any way Ben could've known it was rednecks with guns based on what he heard prior to looking out the window. So to attribute any mindset to his actions assumes a lot of foreknowledge. One other point. Assuming that Ben knew it was rednecks with guns, and assuming he was scared for his life based on that - why would he even go as far as the window? Why wouldn't he continue to hide, flee out the back of the house, etc.?

[DubiousComforts]

Or there could be 1000 ghouls around one guy with a gun and a dog. There was also the helicopter which landed in the field next to the house. There is no way Ben wouldn't have heard it, which is ironic considering the following exchange: Ben: That girl was screaming. Surely you know what a girl screaming sounds like. Those things don't make any noise. Anybody would know somebody needed help! Tom: Look, it's kind of hard to know what's going on from down there.

[blind2d]

I think in the end all this just goes to add to the feeling of confusion and irrational fear that would inevitably come with a zombie outbreak. That said, I wouldn't even have looked out the window. Ben is a real man to the end.

[Trin]

Hmmm... helicopter.... yeah, I remember that now that you mention it. I got nothing. *retreats* I think I need to rewatch the movie before I comment further.

[wayzim]

There was also the helicopter which landed in the field next to the house. There is no way Ben wouldn't have heard it, which is ironic considering the following exchange: Ben: That girl was screaming. Surely you know what a girl screaming sounds like. Those things don't make any noise. Anybody would know somebody needed help! Tom: Look, it's kind of hard to know what's going on from down there. And yet ... Harry; That racket sounded like the place was being ripped apart … how were we supposed to ... Ben: You just said it was hard to hear down there. Now you say it sounded like the place was being ripped apart. You better get your story straight, Mister ... But still, this is just one of those moments which is open to interpretation, which is why NOTLD 68 still rocks. Wayne Z "What had started as the Summer of Love, ended with a Fall which took an already torn national psyche and fed it; bit by bit, to a collective which honored no flag nor philosophy, save one. As flowers faded before the shortening sun, trees bared themselves to an approaching autumn chill, something stirred on the air. In isolated hamlet, in the narrow alleyways and broad avenues of larger metropolis, awakening to a time when all other things looked toward winter slumber, Dead things walked. " DeadFall: Fools on The Hill.

[darth los]

I also don't think there's any way Ben could've known it was rednecks with guns based on what he heard prior to looking out the window. So to attribute any mindset to his actions assumes a lot of foreknowledge. One other point. Assuming that Ben knew it was rednecks with guns, and assuming he was scared for his life based on that - why would he even go as far as the window? Why wouldn't he continue to hide, flee out the back of the house, etc.? Well, I'd have to contest that statement. From the television reports they watched Ben knew exactly who the search and destroy squads consisted of and that they were indeed making their way through the area. Also, there were multiple gunshots and dog barks in rapid succession which would indicate that there was more than one man and one dog causing it. And yes, as was previously mentioned there's the helicopter. The noise from that alone would wake the dead !!