BBC: Best Christmas film?

[Neil]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-46616452 No Gremlins? 1. It's A Wonderful Life (1946) 2. Elf (2003) 3. The Muppet Christmas Carol (1992) 4. Love Actually (2003) 5. Home Alone (1990) 6. Die Hard (1988) 7. National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation (1989) 8. The Polar Express (2004) 9. White Christmas (1954) 10. Scrooge (1951) 11. A Christmas Carol (1984) 12. The Snowman (1982) 13. Miracle on 34th Street (1994) 14. Santa Claus: The Movie (1985) 15. The Holiday (2006) 16. Home Alone 2: Lost in New York (1992) 17. The Grinch (2000) 18. Scrooged (1988) 19. Nativity! (2009) 20. Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone (2001)

[bassman]

Seems like they’d include Lethal Weapon if they’re going to have Die Hard on there. Funny coincidence, Fox just released this new trailer for Die Hard, “the greatest Christmas story ever told”.

[shootemindehead]

'Die Hard' isn't a Christmas film. Even Bruce Willis says so. Seriously though, feckin 'Love Actually' placed above the 1951 film 'Scrooge'? That's a load of old pony. 'Scrooge' should be at least in the top 3.

[JDP]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-46616452 No Gremlins? 1. It's A Wonderful Life (1946) 2. Elf (2003) 3. The Muppet Christmas Carol (1992) 4. Love Actually (2003) 5. Home Alone (1990) 6. Die Hard (1988) 7. National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation (1989) 8. The Polar Express (2004) 9. White Christmas (1954) 10. Scrooge (1951) 11. A Christmas Carol (1984) 12. The Snowman (1982) 13. Miracle on 34th Street (1994) 14. Santa Claus: The Movie (1985) 15. The Holiday (2006) 16. Home Alone 2: Lost in New York (1992) 17. The Grinch (2000) 18. Scrooged (1988) 19. Nativity! (2009) 20. Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone (2001) Also no A Christmas Story (1983)??? I don't know in the UK, but in the US this movie is mandatory for Christmas season. I don't remember even one year where some channel or another doesn't play it. PS: horror fans will recognize Darren McGavin (Kolchak: The Night Stalker) in it. PS 2: and as stated in the above post, Die Hard is NOT a "Christmas" movie.

[shootemindehead]

'A Christmas Story' is very American (not that most of the film's on the list aren't). But few people this side of the pond will have even heard of it. It didn't resonate over here as much as it did over there and it generally doesn't get played this side either. In fact, I can't remember it ever being shown.

[bassman]

To each his own fellas, but in my opinion, Die Hard is very much a Christmas movie. Die Hard and Lethal Weapon have more of a right to be on this list than Harry Potter 1, IMO.

[MinionZombie]

Hmmm ... the Christmas aspects of Lethal Weapon aren't as embedded into the film though. Sure, there's decorations and some settings (e.g. an Xmas tree lot) ... but I feel that Xmas is far more embedded into Die Hard: it takes place on Xmas Eve during an office Xmas party, there's Xmas music throughout the film, multiple characters make explicit references to the holiday season and various other elements associated with the Xmas season. I've been watching some festive movies recently. I kicked it off with Die Hard, then I watched The Hateful Eight (it's 'Xmas adjacent' - set around about Xmas time and Bob plays Silent Night on the piano), then Bad Santa 1 & 2, plus Night Train Murders ('Xmas adjacent' again, but it takes place on Xmas Eve/Xmas Day so the whole reason for the characters being on the train is going somewhere for the holidays), and then my favourite - National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation.

[bassman]

Yeah, Die Hard is definitely more directly connected to the holiday. It’s part of the plot. Lethal Weapon is just set during the season, much like Black’s Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang. I never would have considered Hateful Eight as a Christmas flick, but I loved it and it’s about time to give it another spin, so I’ll just use this as a reason to see it again!

[JDP]

Hmmm ... the Christmas aspects of Lethal Weapon aren't as embedded into the film though. Sure, there's decorations and some settings (e.g. an Xmas tree lot) ... but I feel that Xmas is far more embedded into Die Hard: it takes place on Xmas Eve during an office Xmas party, there's Xmas music throughout the film, multiple characters make explicit references to the holiday season and various other elements associated with the Xmas season. The Christmas references in the movie are just incidental. They are there just because the action is happening at a party on Christmas Eve. You can easily make a movie like Die Hard without those incidental Christmas references, though. For example, you could set it during the 4th of July celebrations, and it would not alter any important aspect of the movie. It would still be Die Hard. But you cannot make a movie like Gremlins, for example, happen at another time of the year. It has to be Christmas season, or the movie would be very different. Christmas is truly "embedded" into that film.

[EvilNed]

Elf, The Holiday and Polar Express definitely do not belong on any "Best christmas movies"-list.

[bassman]

The Christmas references in the movie are just incidental. They are there just because the action is happening at a party on Christmas Eve. You can easily make a movie like Die Hard without those incidental Christmas references, though. For example, you could set it during the 4th of July celebrations, and it would not alter any important aspect of the movie. It would still be Die Hard. But you cannot make a movie like Gremlins, for example, happen at another time of the year. It has to be Christmas season, or the movie would be very different. Christmas is truly "embedded" into that film. With that reasoning, you could alter many movies and take away their Christmas status. It’s a Wonderful Life and White Christmas are surprisingly barely about the holiday. Home Alone ( which is coincidentally a kid’s version of Die Hard ) could take place while the McCallisters are on summer vacation. Gizmo could have been a birthday gift in Gremlins. Ebenezer Scrooge could be visited by the three ghosts in February. You could alter just about any Christmas movie if you like, unless it involves the characters of Jesus Christ or Santa Clause, I suppose. Either way, I’ve never understood why anyone really argues one way or the other. It’s more about a feeling and mindset, so what works for some, won’t work for others. Reminds me of the ol’ 28 Days Later discussions of whether or not it’s a real zombie movie. It could be argued both ways, it’s just really down to what each person prefers. Thinking of Christmas films that aren’t as widely recognized....I’ve always like Trapped in Paradise with Nic Cage, Jon Lovitz, and Dana Carvey.

[JDP]

With that reasoning, you could alter many movies and take away their Christmas status. It’s a Wonderful Life and White Christmas are surprisingly barely about the holiday. Home Alone ( which is coincidentally a kid’s version of Die Hard ) could take place while the McCallisters are on summer vacation. Gizmo could have been a birthday gift in Gremlins. Ebenezer Scrooge could be visited by the three ghosts in February. You could alter just about any Christmas movie if you like, unless it involves the characters of Jesus Christ or Santa Clause, I suppose. Either way, I’ve never understood why anyone really argues one way or the other. It’s more about a feeling and mindset, so what works for some, won’t work for others. Reminds me of the ol’ 28 Days Later discussions of whether or not it’s a real zombie movie. It could be argued both ways, it’s just really down to what each person prefers. Thinking of Christmas films that aren’t as widely recognized....I’ve always like Trapped in Paradise with Nic Cage, Jon Lovitz, and Dana Carvey. Not so. Many of those movies you refer to would not work well outside of a Christmas environment. Scrooge, for example, would not work at the month you mentioned. And even if you did set it then, it would still be about Christmas. You can't do away with Christmas in that story. It IS about Christmas! But Die Hard can easily work during any holiday/celebration, it does not have to be Christmas. The movie does not revolve around that holiday season, it is just incidental that the action happens during a Christmas party. About Gremlins: a birthday gift would not work as effectively as a Christmas gift, since other important elements of the movie also revolve around Christmas. For example, Mrs. Deagle and Kate both hate Christmas in their own way and for their own reasons, and they both learn the lesson in their own way thanks to the Gremlins disaster that ruins the holiday season. You try to do this at another time of the year and it just does not work. Holidays like the Fourth of July or Summer do not have the same "mood" and "spirit", they are very different. Setting a movie like Gremlins in those seasons would fall flat. But you can easily set a movie like Die Hard during something like the Fourth of July or Halloween, and it would work just as well because the plot itself does not require it to revolve around any particular holiday.

[Neil]

About Gremlins: a birthday gift would not work as effectively as a Christmas gift, since other important elements of the movie also revolve around Christmas. For example, Mrs. Deagle and Kate both hate Christmas in their own way and for their own reasons, and they both learn the lesson in their own way thanks to the Gremlins disaster that ruins the holiday season. You try to do this at another time of the year and it just does not work. Holidays like the Fourth of July or Summer do not have the same "mood" and "spirit", they are very different. Setting a movie like Gremlins in those seasons would fall flat. But you can easily set a movie like Die Hard during something like the Fourth of July or Halloween, and it would work just as well because the plot itself does not require it to revolve around any particular holiday. I'd forgotten about that. Yes you're right! - - - Updated - - - Elf, The Holiday and Polar Express definitely do not belong on any "Best christmas movies"-list. I probably watch (& love) Elf every year

[MinionZombie]

Thinking of Christmas films that aren’t as widely recognized....I’ve always like Trapped in Paradise with Nic Cage, Jon Lovitz, and Dana Carvey. Yeah, that's a good one. I just recently re-watched that ... at the tail-end of summer.

[bassman]

The terrorist plot takes place at Christmas in particular for several reasons, the main character is only involved at all because of Christmas, and in the end he learns the timeless Christmas lesson about family. Pretty much the same things that are seen in most others. Not to mention the many, many other references. Also, people tend to forget that Bruce Willis’ comment was said during a comedy roast and was followed by a smug “it’s a BRUCE WILLIS movie!”, as a joke. If we’re taking the creatives’ statements into account, McTiernan, Silver, DeSouza, etc have gone on record saying it’s a Christmas flick, as well as the author of the original novel that it’s adapted from. But, as I said, at the end of the day it’s split among fans because it’s such a great flick that can be seen in different ways. At the very least it includes enough Christmas elements to cause that split and debate that’s been going for thirty years, so that’s fun! A couple other mentions that just came to mind: Jingle All The Way and The Long Kiss Goodnight. One is a cheesy over the top Schwarzenegger romp and the other is an over the top Shane Black actioner.