Who said these bastards were rehabilitated (Bulger murder)

[Tricky]

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-...rms_Of_Release Good riddance, he's back where he belongs & I hope he doesnt get a second chance at freedom, I wonder if they will reveal details of why he's back in jail?

[Ghost Of War]

I very much doubt it. They've been protected for 17 years already, surely the Justice system won't admit that they were wrong to release these little evil cunts. I remember being in interviewed by Radio City (Liverpool's local radio station) when it was announced they were to be released, and I was spitting mad down the microphone. The woman from the radio told me that she had very little to use in her report because of the language and threats from people angry at the decision. This is just going to open up the debate as to why they were released in the first place.

[SymphonicX]

This is a very tough issue to fully look at objectively. The general consensus is that the 8 years they served was simply not enough. In terms of sending out a strong message, I agree - it wasn't nearly enough. However the key is always going back to the parents of the killers...who should have been jailed too. Venable's (I think) parents were nightmares, and the kid was f**ked long before he got his hands on Bulger. But looking at this from a non-emotional perspective - is anyone surprised he has reoffended? We don't know the truth behind his reincarceration, apparently he broke the terms of his parole - it could have been anything from leaving a certain area, spending time with someone younger than him, who knows what the conditions were? it could have been innocent, it could have been yet another attempt at taking a life - we just don't know. This also means we can't comment on his "rehabilitation". The kid was in prison from age 11, this experience is bound to have warped him completely - the real issue for me is, what are we doing with these f**ked up kids when they are sent down? Do any of you really believe that the current prison system is at all set up for teaching people a lesson? Or does it stick f**ked up people in with more f**ked up people who influence them over long periods of time only to produce people in a worse mental state than when they went in? the problem is, with a crime like this it's so easy to get emotional about it. Of course the situation is tragic but we as a society tend to analyse this in a cold, darkhearted manner that really amounts to nothing more than "hang them" or "lock them up and throw away the key". Neither of these are solutions, but instead gut reactions to the problem. The law has to stay objective. And we as a society need to give a clear message to the UK government about how we really want to see people reformed. Either that or we just hang everyone. Another issue is that we are so quick to judge from our armchairs with only 10% of the truth in our minds. The prison system does NOT work, and the justice system barely incentivises a person to go straight. We need to look at how to essentially brainwash these f**ked up people to be normal, fully functioning adults without making them worse by sticking them in with people who have been f**ked up for years. Of course it's easy to accuse this post of pandering to the victim mentality of criminals. But when you look at kids who have literally no sense of respect or empathy, you've GOT to ask yourself who was denying them those elements throughout their lives. Sure people have to take responsibility for their actions. An 11 year old boy tho? Christ when I was 11 I wanted to shoot a hole in a gas storage tank to see it explode (it would have taken out about 5/6 houses and the people in them). And I'm a normal bloke who's never committed a (bad) crime in my LIFE. Kids can go off the rails at the flick of a switch and historically it's ALWAYS been down to the parents to instill a sense of shame, respect, fear, empathy and love for their parent's rules. Without those things kids go crazy and killers like this are born. So then we punish the kid, leave the parents outside to breed even more horrible little shits and thusly expect the original kid to magically be reformed after spending 8 years living next to kids just as f**ked up as him!? Not practical. And FYI, my friend stopped me from blowing up the gas tank - a fine example of how influences from peer groups profoundly affect the outcome of a situation. Still, they and their parents should have been jailed for a long, long time. However the kids should have received intensive psychological treatment and turned into a productive member of society.

[capncnut]

The other one is apparently a top earning clothes designer with a missus and kid of his own. This dude who just got arrested is a paranoid schizo, who cries all day, has never had a proper relationship, is alcoholic, and looks over his shoulder day and night. Let's see what he did. I reckon he got rat-arsed and tried to contact the Bulger family, which would breach his bail conditions.

[Tricky]

They both should have swung for what they did, no cost to society & no chance of reoffending, theres people around the world who grow up in far worse conditions than those two did who havent used it as an excuse for murder. However they've molded the other one into a supposedly decent person, doesnt change the fact he tortured a 2 year old defenceless baby to death for fun Word on the radio this morning is that Venables got into a fight at work which has put him back in jail, but thats just rumour

[Dtothe3]

I think SymphonicX nailed the point entirely.

[Tricky]

Im sure venables 8 years incarceration must have been hell for him, I mean having a dirtbike to ride around the extensive grounds of his secure unit must have been torture for the poor lamb, and all that access to a gym, free holidays to wales & the lake district, trips to old trafford with his father to watch Manchester united playing , a better education than most normal kids get, his own room decked out with a playstation, TV, manchester united wallpaper, videos, dvd's etc etc must have been absolute hell. Not to mention the cost to the taxpayer which probably runs into millions gagging the press, giving him a new identity, protecting him & monitoring his safety around the clock.. Thats not punishment, thats basically rewarding him for what he did to that poor child, giving him priviledges that your average kid could only dream of & that James Bulger never got to grow up & experience. If a wild dog attacks a child it is instantly put down, not given treats for the rest of its life. Venables & Thompson should have been treated no differently in my opinion. Sorry if that sounds harsh

[Ghost Of War]

Doesn't sound harsh to me at all. I'm having a discussion about this on another forum, with people mainly from Liverpool, and the general consensus is the same. Apart from the usual left-wing do gooders, who are basically saying that they were too young to know what they were doing, they didn't understand that what they were doing was bad, etc. Bollocks to that. They tried to take another kid the same day, they knew what they were doing, it was premeditated, and they tried to cover it up by leaving him on the train tracks for a train to run over him. They should either still be in prison, or like you said, swing. The parents should also be punished, IMO. I enjoy reading your posts, Tricky. You seem to have the same views as me on some things.

[capncnut]

An anonymous caller phoned LBC radio this afternoon and said Jon Venables was nicked after getting mashed and decking someone in a pub. Was found with drugs on him too apparently.

[Tricky]

An anonymous caller phoned LBC radio this afternoon and said Jon Venables was nicked after getting mashed and decking someone in a pub. Was found with drugs on him too apparently. The rehab program really worked there then! I feel desperately sorry for James Bulgers mum who quite clearly feels those two little bastards were never properly punished

[capncnut]

The rehab program really worked there then! I feel desperately sorry for James Bulgers mum who quite clearly feels those two little bastards were never properly punished Well, not to worry Trickster, me ol' China. Venables has been rumbled in prison. Article 1 Article 2 Not that I should laugh. After all, they'll only move him into a nice tidy solo cell under constant watch, where he can surf the net and play Mass Effect 2 at my fucking expense.

[SymphonicX]

Again more thought is given to the justice system's weakness and as a result we're all up for punishing kids again?? How is it the criminal's fault what luxuries they get in prison? That's entirely the fault of this country and the outlook on criminality and rehabilitation - so what are we suggesting here, kill the kids out of a notion of revenge because they'd get an easier life in prison? That's absurd!!!!!!!! Turns out it might have been a child pr0n offence - which is simply going to draw more criticism and condemnation for him....I say, let's have a look at the system, society and infrastructure that both put them there one way or another and is supposed to be sorting him out. It hasn't worked, it DOESN'T work but a solution to that motivated by nothing more than petty vengeance and spite will just throw us further back into the dark ages. And we're supposed to be the moral compass against extremism!

[Chic Freak]

The law has to stay objective. Yes, but it depends what you think the purpose of prison should be. It sounds like a stupid question but think about it: what do you think prison should be for? Atm I believe it should be for: 1. Protecting the people outside the prison from the people inside the prison. 2. Rehabilitating criminals, when this does not prevent objective #1. 3. Acting as a deterrent for potential criminals, when this does not prevent objective #2 (i.e. don't make it so dreadful that people are worse when they leave than they were when they arrived). 4. Punishing criminals, also when this does not prevent objective #2. What does everyone else think? Re: Telegraph article- he has "become prone to violent outbursts of temper"?? Are they kidding??? Apparently he got sent back for some sort of sexual violence. Lovely.

[SymphonicX]

Yes, but it depends what you think the purpose of prison should be. It sounds like a stupid question but think about it: what do you think prison should be for? Atm I believe it should be for: 1. Protecting the people outside the prison from the people inside the prison. 2. Rehabilitating criminals, when this does not prevent objective #1. 3. Acting as a deterrent for potential criminals, when this does not prevent objective #2 (i.e. don't make it so dreadful that people are worse when they leave than they were when they arrived). 4. Punishing criminals, also when this does not prevent objective #2. What does everyone else think? Re: Telegraph article- he has "become prone to violent outbursts of temper"?? Are they kidding??? Apparently he got sent back for some sort of sexual violence. Lovely. Through all the near comedic pitchfork brandishing simpson-esque lynchmobs banding around, I think that's the most prevalent question in all of this. What IS the justice system for? Reading certain posts here you'd only believe it to be a form of relief for victims, at best...at worst it's just a system set up for (as I said before) petty revenge. I mean if you look at it from afar it's plainly obvious to see that people's perception on how this system should be run is essentially based on "eye for an eye" in a lot of cases. Its a hard question to answer. All I can say about this and particularly the reaction to the boys in Eddlington (attempted murder case), is that people's instant comdemnation and cries to kill 10 and 11 year old kids is fucking sickening...why? Because you're fucking adults calling for the death of a little boy. They were stupid, twisted, fucked up little kids who had no idea of the severity of their actions and had no love, respect or time given to them and were from abusive backgrounds living in poverty. And the argument that there are plenty of other kids who've grown up similarly yet didn't kill other kids is moot as different people, different brains, different situations are never ever ever comparable in any sense. It's a chemical timebomb waiting to go off and can be flicked easier in some than others - but to write off these kids as "evil" is so archaic, and blindsided. The truth is, and as Will Self said on Question Time last week, it's far easier for people to believe that these kids are sitting there with devil's horns, scheming for the destruction of humanity than it is for us to realise the uncomfortable truth....

[Tricky]

They were stupid, twisted, fucked up little kids who had no idea of the severity of their actions and had no love, respect or time given to them and were from abusive backgrounds living in poverty. .... Of course they knew the severity of their actions, they tried to abduct another child earlier in the day, and they tried to cover their tracks afterwards, they werent exactly just doing it on a whim. Blaming poverty is frankly pathetic, there are children in other parts of the world who grow up in far, far worse poverty & conditions than those two fucked up arseholes did, who dont torture other kids to death. Why keep making excuses for them? Some people are just born nasty pieces of work & no amount hugs or rewarding them for it is ever going to change that. Despite the millions of taxpayers money that has been spent supposedly rehabilitating those two & treating them like royalty, neither of them have ever shown any remorse whatsoever for what they did to James, according to reports from people who looked after their care while they were locked up, & certainly Venables has revelled in his notoriety! The system clearly hasnt worked, & I think the whole way those two were dealt with has been a big experiment by successive governments & the justice system who are now shitting themselves because its failed, hence all the secrecy around it. Say what you like about this, because i'll stick to my opinion, I think those two should both have been given a lethal jab as soon as they were convicted. Im not talking about beating them to death or making them swing or whatever out of vengeful spite, just quickly & quietly removing two dangerous individuals from society permanently. Last time I checked there was a 0% chance of re-offending among executed murderers. I dont understand people who say "society is supposed to have evolved" or "if we did that we're going back to the dark ages", do they think we live in some peaceful hippy utopia where bad things never happen & that we're all trendy modern thinkers? If there is ever another case like this which I expect at some point in the future there will be unfortunately, it would be extremely stupid & naive of the justice system to employ the same brand of justice as they have with Thompson & Venables.