Wings of War/Wings of Glory: showin' off my first mission flown

[MoonSylver]

So over the past year or two I got interested in WWI planes & gaming. I started collecting the Wings of War series of games, & subsequently the re-release as Wings of Glory. I'd joined the forum that supports it & signed up to participate in tho solo campaign that they run. So I'm taking this opportunity to show off my first After Action Report, replete with a number of pictures of my set up. If you like WWI, colorful planes, boardgames, miniatures, etc go here to check it out: http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...re-Are-We-quot

[Neil]

Looks interesting... I'll look into the gameplay etc... If it's not too complicated I'll see if I can get my son interested! Be nice to get him off computer games for a while!

[MoonSylver]

Looks interesting... I'll look into the gameplay etc... If it's not too complicated I'll see if I can get my son interested! Be nice to get him off computer games for a while! That is one of the many positives, gameplay is VERY simple, but not simplistic. They have a Duel Pack where you get 2 planes & all the markers, basic rules, etc for like $25. If you like it, then the Rules an Accesories pack is next that contains the full rules for more advanced missions (for things like Balloon Busting, Trench Strafing etc.) & there are a number of planes available & more coming. Great hobby.

[Neil]

OK! Had a look... Seems there's three options in this sort of area:- Wings of Glory WW1 Wings of Glory WW2 Star Wars X-Wing Minatures Have you any view on the three flavours? Seems no matter which starter set you get, you'll need to buy a couple of expansions to get 2-3 craft per side... Which is obviously a shame money wise!

[MoonSylver]

OK! Had a look... Seems there's three options in this sort of area:- Wings of Glory WW1 Wings of Glory WW2 Star Wars X-Wing Minatures Have you any view on the three flavours? Seems no matter which starter set you get, you'll need to buy a couple of expansions to get 2-3 craft per side... Which is obviously a shame money wise! X-Wing is a seperate line/company that is "inspired" by WoG. (In fact, this is the company that USED to distribute the game under it's previous title "Wings of War") Have not played WW2, but have heard it plays quite differently (as one would expect given the difference in aircraft). As I said, with the Duel Pack(s) you can get started w/ 2 planes & all the basic rules & all the cards, counters, etc you need for around $25, which is all you need to start playing. If you like THEN you can add on additional planes, Rules & Accessories Pack, Mats, etc. It's all up to the player how much they WANT to add, but for around $50 you can have FOUR planes & everything you would need to play. Not that deep an investment IMO. Now, if you don't HAVE to have mini's you could look for the old WoW boxes on E-Bay. There the planes were represented by cards, so you got quite a few copies of each "plane" per box (but only 1 deck to fly them with, which you can work around by writing down manuveres). "Famous Aces" is the best one to start with. The DISADVANTAGE of going that route is that the rules for things like bombers & balloon busting missions were included in later box sets, so the get the "complete" game you would need a 4 box sets (though there is a LOT you can do with just one!) The rules are availble for both itterations on their respective websites if you want to have a look first.

[Neil]

If we take a starter set. Is 1vs1 plane really interesting enough to be engaging? Surely 2vs2 is more desirable? Another thing. If we consider the buffered nature of planning your maneuvers:- WW1 - You seem to buffer three moves? So you're always sitting on three moves? Wow! Seems a lot! WW2 - This buffer has been reduced down to two? Star Wars - No buffer. You plan and move immediately. Interesting they've slowly reduced the planning from 2 moves ahead down to none. With this 2 or 3 moves ahead, does this mean if you're using a maneuver card, you can't use it again until that card is actioned? ie: So you couldn't make the same turn 3 times in a row in the WW1 version, as there's only one of those cards?

[MoonSylver]

If we take a starter set. Is 1vs1 plane really interesting enough to be engaging? Surely 2vs2 is more desirable? Another thing. If we consider the buffered nature of planning your maneuvers:- WW1 - You seem to buffer three moves? So you're always sitting on three moves? Wow! Seems a lot! WW2 - This buffer has been reduced down to two? Star Wars - No buffer. You plan and move immediately. Interesting they've slowly reduced the planning from 2 moves ahead down to none. With this 2 or 3 moves ahead, does this mean if you're using a maneuver card, you can't use it again until that card is actioned? ie: So you couldn't make the same turn 3 times in a row in the WW1 version, as there's only one of those cards? If we take a starter set. Is 1vs1 plane really interesting enough to be engaging? Surely 2vs2 is more desirable? Another thing. If we consider the buffered nature of planning your maneuvers:- WW1 - You seem to buffer three moves? So you're always sitting on three moves? Wow! Seems a lot! WW2 - This buffer has been reduced down to two? Star Wars - No buffer. You plan and move immediately. Interesting they've slowly reduced the planning from 2 moves ahead down to none. With this 2 or 3 moves ahead, does this mean if you're using a maneuver card, you can't use it again until that card is actioned? ie: So you couldn't make the same turn 3 times in a row in the WW1 version, as there's only one of those cards? You can have fun with 1-on-1, as long as you don't mind a lot of maneuvering. 2-on-2 does probably yield more action as there are more targets & opportunities for shooting. 3 maneuvers isn't as much as it seems. There are multiple copies of most maneuvers per deck (for example, 3 straights, 3 Right/Left turns, 2 Stalls, 1 Immelman Turn, 2 Left/Right Sideslips, etc). The way it plays out is each pilot selects his 3 maneuvers for the turn, & then you execute them, 1 at a time w/ shooting in between (if any). So lets say I select Straight, Right Turn, & Sideslip Right for my maneuvers. 1st round I play the Straight & move my plane, my opponent lays down his maneuver & does the same. Then we check our firing positions, resolve any shooting. 2nd round I then perform the Right Turn, opponent plays his maneuver, shoot. 3rd Right Sideslip, opponent maneuver, shoot. Turn ends & Maneuvers are planned for the next turn. Since there are multiple copies of most maneuvers, you can play the same maneuver more than once per turn. (ie, you could do 3 right turns, which would be a circle essentially). It sounds more complicated than it is. It really plays quite simply & intuitively. It's a simple mechanism for simultaneous action selection that commits you to planned movement. The change from 3 to 2 for WW2 has something to do with the speed of the planes from what I understand. I have no idea why 1 maneuver at a time for X-Wing, but I've heard it isn't a positive change, as it removes a lot of the planning & strategic elements.

[Neil]

So lets say I select Straight, Right Turn, & Sideslip Right for my maneuvers. 1st round I play the Straight & move my plane, my opponent lays down his maneuver & does the same. Then we check our firing positions, resolve any shooting. 2nd round I then perform the Right Turn, opponent plays his maneuver, shoot. 3rd Right Sideslip, opponent maneuver, shoot. Turn ends & Maneuvers are planned for the next turn. Oh! The impression I got was you had three maneuver constanly on the go. So when you used ONE, TWO and THREE would shuffle down into ONE and TWO, and you'd then fill THREE up with that maneuver? So you were always planning the third maneuver ahead/away!? I have no idea why 1 maneuver at a time for X-Wing, but I've heard it isn't a positive change, as it removes a lot of the planning & strategic elements. Do you think it's a necessary evil to simplify the gameplay?

[MoonSylver]

Oh! The impression I got was you had three maneuver constanly on the go. So when you used ONE, TWO and THREE would shuffle down into ONE and TWO, and you'd then fill THREE up with that maneuver? So you were always planning the third maneuver ahead/away!? Nope. You plan 1, 2,3 & then execute 1, 2, 3. After that, cards go back into the deck & you plan for the next round. No shuffling or drawing required as you have the full range of your manuever deck available each turn. Do you think it's a necessary evil to simplify the gameplay? I suspect that simplifying the gameplay was the objective. Necessary? Not so much. I've heard a lot of changes were made, some good, some not, but that in a number of ways X-Wing is quite a different beastie.

[Neil]

Nope. You plan 1, 2,3 & then execute 1, 2, 3. After that, cards go back into the deck & you plan for the next round. No shuffling or drawing required as you have the full range of your manuever deck available each turn. Oh! It's the WW2 one then where you always have a full set of maneuvers! See 10m in on this video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTj3Lpq5ygU So with the WW1 one, you play all three, then fill all three up again... That's quite different!

[MoonSylver]

Oh! It's the WW2 one then where you always have a full set of maneuvers! See 10m in on this video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTj3Lpq5ygU So with the WW1 one, you play all three, then fill all three up again... That's quite different! I'll have to check that out. Never played the WW2 version. Just not my thing. But for some reason those beautiful aircraft, right there at the dawn of aviation, developed when flight was still an uncertain thing, in the greatest conflict in history at that time, in an arena where the whole nature of war & the tools it was fought with were evolving, and especially the men who flew the planes, really captured my imagination. I know the movement SOUNDS odd when described, somewhat mechanical, but in play it is the most simple & elegent system I've seen. It just flows seamlessly. The movement, ability to turn, etc is all on the movement card(s). No checking charts, no movement rates, no grids, hexes, etc. It's so beautiful in play. From what I understand the changes made from WW1 to WW2 were to facilitate the differences in speed, scale, etc.

[Neil]

If you don't mind explaining, how do you do bombing runs etc?

[MoonSylver]

If you don't mind explaining, how do you do bombing runs etc? Bombing basically works like this: http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/dow...%20rez_4XL.jpg Explains it a lot better than I can.

[Neil]

^^ Seems straight forward enough... But I suspect you get better with practice I can imagine a lot of people having to circle around and around trying to get the right line! RE the movement differences between WW1 and WW2, I've seen a lot of people commenting they prefer the WW1 plan 3 moves ahead approach, to the WW2, buffered two moves, one at a time approach. Infact I've seen people say they instead play WW2 like WW1, by planning/making two moves at a time... Seems a shame there's not a good WW1 starter set ie: Not easy just to go out and buy something and start playing So to get a nice 2vs2 plane setup I'd need:- - WW1 Rules & Accessories Pack (£23) - http://www.firestormgames.co.uk/13724 - And then FOUR individual planes (£45) - http://www.firestormgames.co.uk/inde...ry&path=270572 Which gets us to basically £70 Does that also give me enough cards (damage decks) etc? To jump into Wings of Glory WW2 is cheaper due to the boxset with four planes in (under £50). ps: I assume you've seen there's a Sails of War on the way? pps: Where's the Android tablet version? - http://www.bigdaddyscreations.com/68...cret-any-more/ ppps: Check this out - http://armorgames.com/play/5426

[MoonSylver]

^^ Seems straight forward enough... But I suspect you get better with practice I can imagine a lot of people having to circle around and around trying to get the right line! Yep. That's part of the real beauty & fun of the game IMO, in that the basics are very easy to grasp, but there is a skill element involved in learning how your plane moves & maneuvers and being able to estimate where your maneuvers will place you, anticipate what your opponent will do, etc. Even veteran players can misjudge one or the other. But the divide between experienced & new players isn't so great that a new player can't be competitive with an experienced players. Quite the opposite. Seems a shame there's not a good WW1 starter set ie: Not easy just to go out and buy something and start playing So to get a nice 2vs2 plane setup I'd need:- - WW1 Rules & Accessories Pack (£23) - http://www.firestormgames.co.uk/13724 - And then FOUR individual planes (£45) - http://www.firestormgames.co.uk/inde...ry&path=270572 Which gets us to basically £70 Does that also give me enough cards (damage decks) etc? Yeah, w/ the RAP you get all the damage decks, counters, trench/target/AA/MG cards, full rule book, etc. The individual planes each come with their own maneuver deck. The Duel Packs are intended to be the "starter set". You get 2 planes, 2 maneuver decks, Basic Rules, counters, & a damage deck with them. But I have heard your concern voiced by others & do understand. The reason they went with the model they did was to try & give the buyer the most flexibility possible by either choosing Duel Packs or the RAP+Planes as their entry, choosing which planes/paint schemes they wanted for their "starter", etc rather than a fixed setup that might or might not feature planes you want or already had. I can see pro's & con's both ways. Shop around online before you buy. There are some good discounts from online retailers. Most of your big box designer boardgames these days are going for $50 to $90 these days, so if you can get 4 planes + the RAP in the range that's a fair price TBH.