Nature vs. Nurture

[darth los]

I've been doing some thinking about human nature. For all the accomplishments that are atributed to our race we are also capable of horrible things. Things like murder, jealousy, greed, envy, Stealing, lying just to name a few. My question is, how much of this is learned and how much is inate? I came up with this scenario. We'll do it Lord of the Flies style. Say we put 50babies on an island, 25 male and 25 female, of different races. ( For the sake of the discussion let's leave out who would take care of their needs like being fed and changed, etc.) How Long would it take for them to start exhibiting these charactaristics if at all? Now, in the absence of caregivers some things, racism for example, won't be taught which i believe many things are. But how much of this stuff is a result of instinct and how much is learned? Can it be unlearned? Or is it a part of who we are? Thoughts?

[DawnGirl27]

That's tough, because although I agree we are taught many things, we are "hard wired" concerning others. I honestly believe there's an atypical gene in some people that make them evil, with no conscience. Other people say they're driven to do bad things due to their enviornment, like stealing, whereas others in the same situation don't. If on an island, however, with no one to teach them prejudices, I think they'd learn to be a pretty cohesive group, not knowing anything else but growing up together and pitching in to survive. But then if a catastrophe occured, say a drought, and vegetation died, and food was scarce, human nature may rear its selfish head and things could very well go downhill from there. It's a complex question, with many variables. It's naive to say people are all good at heart, because it's been proven countless times that not everyone is. But I think despite this, that there are people who inately possess integrity and loyalty, and will step up to the plate when needed.

[Chic Freak]

IBut how much of this stuff is a result of instinct and how much is learned? Can it be unlearned? Or is it a part of who we are? Even if it is a result of instinct it can still be unlearned- check out behaviorism

[darth los]

Even if it is a result of instinct it can still be unlearned- check out behaviorism Imo, i don't really believe that any instinctual behavior can be unlearned. It's not in the program. We're just hard wired to be a certain way. Now, that said, I do believe that you can make a conscious effort to go against that programming but it's something you have to think about. In stressfull situations one would most likely revert to their default settings. People can also be motivated t go agaist their hard wiring. On the train to work this morning I was was looking around at everyone just sitting there all tranquil and i couldn't help but think how we all have to follow rules. Why is that? Do we really HAVE to? We're civil to each each because we can reason. It's the thing that sets us apart from the lower species. Doc Frankenstein said what was perhaps the most profound statement of the series: "Civility must be rewarded captain. Without it then there's just no use for it". Truer words were never spoken. Before there were organized governments and rules life was brutish and short. It is to all our benefit to have government even if it drives us crazy sometimes. Without it we'd spend our lives in perpetual fear of each other. We act "civily" because it benefits us to do so not because we're "good at heart". It would be a world where only the strong survive and everone else be damned. Think about it how civil would you be if there were no reward dor doing so? Or penalty for that matter?

[Philly_SWAT]

I think that there is both good and bad qualities in all people. Some have more good than bad, and vice versa. I think that it would be possible here on earth for life in general to be much better than it is for a large majority of people, but the systems of control that exist would have to be drastically different than they are now. That is the problem though, the "powers that be" would (and do) fight tooth and nail so as they do not lose the power they have already accumulated. As far as your specific question goes, I think what would happen with those 50 individuals would likely be a result of the random genetics that existed among them. If one or a few of them had strong leadership/control characteristics, then they would gradually assume control/leadership of the group. If they were "bad", then life would be difficult for those who were not in the lead group. If they were "good", then life would be pleasant for those who were not in the lead group. If there were both "good" and "bad" leader types, then you would have conflict.

[darth los]

I think that there is both good and bad qualities in all people. Some have more good than bad, and vice versa. I think that it would be possible here on earth for life in general to be much better than it is for a large majority of people, but the systems of control that exist would have to be drastically different than they are now. That is the problem though, the "powers that be" would (and do) fight tooth and nail so as they do not lose the power they have already accumulated. As far as your specific question goes, I think what would happen with those 50 individuals would likely be a result of the random genetics that existed among them. If one or a few of them had strong leadership/control characteristics, then they would gradually assume control/leadership of the group. If they were "bad", then life would be difficult for those who were not in the lead group. If they were "good", then life would be pleasant for those who were not in the lead group. If there were both "good" and "bad" leader types, then you would have conflict. Barring a cataclysmic event there will always be governments. Like I posted earlier Life with out gov't and us cooperating and following an agreed upon set of rules life would be nightmarish. The one invaluable thing tha govt's provide is piece of mind that you don't have to spend every waking moment on edge, defending yourself from those who would do you and your family harm. That's the way it used to be. Once we discovered fire and irrigation which aided in agriculture we didn't have to spend every waking moment defending ourselves from nature and looking for food. This freed up the human mind to pursue intellectual pursuits that took a back seat to survival for thousands of years. Because of that we're where we are today and government, no matter what form it took was an intregal part of that.