Question for the UK'ers here... (language related)

[LouCipherr]

Ok, I'm probably going to get an answer that makes me feel stupid, but I'm curious as to what this means. Last night I was, for some odd reason, watching "House Hunters International" (wife had it on) and there was a couple looking for a home/place near Oxford in the UK. The woman real estate agent, who was obviously from the UK based on her accent, kept refering to Oxford as "Oxford proper" - can someone explain to me what the deal is with 'proper'? I'm a UK illiterate, so I figured this would be the perfect place to ask. Sorry if it's been asked before.

[MinionZombie]

I assume it's because Oxford is a city, located in the county of Oxfordshire, so "Oxford proper" would be her referring to the city itself, rather than the wider county. That's what I reckon is the reasoning anyway.

[LouCipherr]

Thanks for the clarification, MZ. I was thinking to myself "what's this 'proper' stuff they keep referring to?" but that explanation makes sense. I bow to your wisdom.

[MinionZombie]

Well, I am pretty wisdomous. Where did that quote come from? It just sprang to mind, but can't remember where I heard it.

[AcesandEights]

The use of the word is also not exclusive to the UK, it's used in the US all the time.

[LouCipherr]

The use of the word is also not exclusive to the UK, it's used in the US all the time. Really? I've never heard anyone use 'proper' after a city name - at least not here in Maryland, that's for sure. Where have you heard this before, Aces? "Chicago proper" just sounds wrong.. even "New York proper" sounds weird! Well, I am pretty wisdomous. Where did that quote come from? It just sprang to mind, but can't remember where I heard it. No idea dude, but it does sound familiar... *wanders off to ponder*

[AcesandEights]

Really? I've never heard anyone use 'proper' after a city name - at least not here in Maryland, that's for sure. Where have you heard this before, Aces? Usually when people are discussing where they live, to delineate their location from an outlying associated, or 'greater' area. Even more so when people are getting all real estatey in their conversations or a broker is involved. A lot of blue bloods or well to do types use it in the 'greater' NYC area (ie.e people who don't actually live in the city proper) to delineate they live on the right side of the tracks.

[deadpunk]

isn't it usually reserved for cities that contain rural stretches within their borders? The main infrastructure of the city then being refered to as 'proper' or 'greater', with the sprawling country areas still holding claim to being part of the overall city?

[MoonSylver]

Really? I've never heard anyone use 'proper' after a city name - at least not here in Maryland, that's for sure. Where have you heard this before, Aces? "Chicago proper" just sounds wrong.. even "New York proper" sounds weird! "That is because you are a part of the low class, ill mannered, bacon eating rabble old bean."

[MinionZombie]

Moon continues to make me chuckle with his Google Image Search powers. I figured the "proper/greater" thing was used in situations where you've got a county/state and a city being named the same thing - so you've got Oxford in Oxfordshire, and New York City in the state of New York (hence "New York, New York", right?) ... anyway, that's my reckoning on it.

[MoonSylver]

Moon continues to make me chuckle with his Google Image Search powers.

[LouCipherr]

Usually when people are discussing where they live, to delineate their location from an outlying associated, or 'greater' area. Even more so when people are getting all real estatey in their conversations or a broker is involved. A lot of blue bloods or well to do types use it in the 'greater' NYC area (ie.e people who don't actually live in the city proper) to delineate they live on the right side of the tracks. Interesting. Like I said, I've never heard it personally, but that certainly doesn't mean that people aren't using the term. I thought I had heard someone from the UK say this before (matter of fact, I thought for sure I've seen some posts from UK'ers here using the term before, but sometimes it's hard to trust my short-term memory.. *snicker*) but when I heard it on this show I was watching, I just had to ask 'cause then it started bugging me.

[AcesandEights]

Interesting. Like I said, I've never heard it personally, but that certainly doesn't mean that people aren't using the term. I thought I had heard someone from the UK say this before (matter of fact, I thought for sure I've seen some posts from UK'ers here using the term before, but sometimes it's hard to trust my short-term memory.. *snicker*) but when I heard it on this show I was watching, I just had to ask 'cause then it started bugging me. Could certainly be more commonly used in the UK.

[Danny]

LIsthen yeah oi!, ee's cus we is pro'paA ang-liash gintlemin roight?

[krakenslayer]

It's not only used in real estate/geographical contexts either. It can be used in almost any context where you can have "loose" and "strict" interpretations of something. To give a somewhat off-colour example, if you've never had vaginal sex but you've done oral or anal, then you are still technically a virgin, but not a virgin proper. (sorry, but that was genuinely the first example that popped into my head )