Had Rhodes and the boys been inside the mall

[CaldoTheKid]

Could they have successful have defended against the bikers?

[Neil]

If they'd let the bikers run away with their TVs and cream pies, they might then have been able to repeat the access blocking and visitor clear-out... Having lost some of the doors would obviously have made things more tricky.

[JDP]

It's still just 7 guys against like 50 or 60 (when Stephen says that it's "15 or 20" of them, he is obviously underestimating their numbers so as not to freak out Fran; he knows there's actually more of them.) The odds are strongly against them.

[Neil]

It's still just 7 guys against like 50 or 60 (when Stephen says that it's "15 or 20" of them, he is obviously underestimating their numbers so as not to freak out Fran; he knows there's actually more of them.) The odds are strongly against them. True, but would they have stayed? ie: It looked like they wanted to hit and run (stupidly). They could have broken a single window and been far more logical about the process

[MinionZombie]

I wonder if Rhodes et al, with their military training, would've not only blocked off the doors more successfully (e.g. at the very least rip out the wiring and not leave them "all taped up"), and of course with all that weaponry on-hand, they might've been more capable of taking them on - and also more willing to take them all on, regardless of the odds. They might have also already thought about the mall as being a desirable target, so could have already had some plans of action in-place. Mind you, they were a miserable bunch - but then again, being stuck in a rotten hole in the ground will do that to you. At least the mall had shops and games and food and ice skating and open air, so they might have also been a little less stressed out by comparison.

[shootemindehead]

Could they have successful have defended against the bikers? No. "Rhodes and the boys" wear the patch of the 99th Inf. Readiness Div. on their shoulders. They're reservists and clearly out of their depth in the dilemma that is Romero's zombie apocalypse. None of them have probably seen any combat prior and were more than likely assigned to security detail before the outbreak. Into the bargain, they're few in number and would certainly be no match for the numbers of bikers that trash the mall. As an aside, the patch that the soldiers wear represents Pittsburgh and the design was inspired by William Pitt's coat of arms.

[JDP]

True, but would they have stayed? ie: It looked like they wanted to hit and run (stupidly). They could have broken a single window and been far more logical about the process The bikers don't seem to have wanted to take over the mall, otherwise they would have gone about it more carefully, as you say. And they certainly could have, the 3 people at the mall would not have been able to prevent them from doing so. They would eventually have taken off with the chopper before the biker gang had had a chance of searching the mall thoroughly in order to locate the entrance to their hideout.

[CaldoTheKid]

No. "Rhodes and the boys" wear the patch of the 99th Inf. Readiness Div. on their shoulders. They're reservists and clearly out of their depth in the dilemma that is Romero's zombie apocalypse. I've heard the argument before that Rhodes etc were reservists but has Romero or anyone else involved in the production actually confirmed that? - - - Updated - - - I wonder if Rhodes et al, with their military training, would've not only blocked off the doors more successfully (e.g. at the very least rip out the wiring and not leave them "all taped up"), and of course with all that weaponry on-hand, they might've been more capable of taking them on - and also more willing to take them all on, regardless of the odds. They might have also already thought about the mall as being a desirable target, so could have already had some plans of action in-place. Mind you, they were a miserable bunch - but then again, being stuck in a rotten hole in the ground will do that to you. At least the mall had shops and games and food and ice skating and open air, so they might have also been a little less stressed out by comparison. Another thing to consider is Dawn is in the earlier stages of the apocalypse, and there is a debate over which happens first Land or Day. So given what you say about the things you say about games, food and being in the earlier stages yes they probably would be less stressed out and also more able to mount a defence against the bikers.

[MinionZombie]

Another thing to consider is Dawn is in the earlier stages of the apocalypse, and there is a debate over which happens first Land or Day. So given what you say about the things you say about games, food and being in the earlier stages yes they probably would be less stressed out and also more able to mount a defence against the bikers. I was just thinking this earlier today - earlier in the apocalypse, so Rhodes et al wouldn't be so messed up in the head. There's still plenty of opportunity for mankind to turn things around, things are still up in the air, there's still lots to be getting on with ... ... by the time we get to Day, though (several months up to a year into the ZA), and with them stuck down in that dark hole, they've had an awful lot of time to stew over their dire situation. I mean, though, look at John and McDermott sitting in their little island-themed getaway enjoying booze and weed. They're making the best of a dreadful situation and are much more comfortable ... it also helps that they're indispensible members of the team, of course. And there is no reasonable debate RE: Day/Land timeline. Day first, then Land - which is stated to be three years deep into the ZA. And I'm not going down that damned road again because we've tread on that rotten path many a time here at HPOTD with wearying effect.

[JDP]

And there is no reasonable debate RE: Day/Land timeline. Day first, then Land - which is stated to be three years deep into the ZA. And I'm not going down that damned road again because we've tread on that rotten path many a time here at HPOTD with wearying effect. There is actually plenty of "reasonable debate", and you know very well the reasons, the ones that you try to avoid since there really is no good counterarguments against them. Like I said many times before: if Romero's intention was to make Land happen after the events of Day, he did a fantastically ineffective job at conveying that idea. The world of Land is still a hopeful one, a lingering remain of the pre-zombie one (they even use the same currency as a base for their still ongoing economy), the one of Day is one of impending doom and despair (where that very same money has become just more garbage on the streets and the butt of jokes from past times.) Even the very arguments that you yourself just brought up in this thread contradict your position, BTW. As you yourself recognize, the people from Day are in a desperate situation, their outlook on the zombie situation is very different than the ones from Dawn, for which events we really have good and clear evidence that are taking place only a few weeks to a few months after the events of Night, unlike the events of Day, which are never clearly addressed when exactly are they happening after the events of Night, but it is very easy to deduce that they are definitely taking place quite after the events of Dawn. Well, unfortunately for the deniers, the people from Land actually resemble the still hopeful people from Dawn way more than they resemble the somber and pessimistic people of Day. They definitely seem closer to each other in time than to the totally desperate ones of Day, who see no other choice for a chance at surviving than to try to isolate themselves from the massive disaster that the mainland has become. The still hopeful people from Land, therefore, would feel more at home in that shopping mall from Dawn than the somber people from Day would.

[beat_truck]

.... and there is a debate over which happens first Land or Day. There is? Despite the convoluted analyzing, "logic", and constant arguing of one or two members, this is the only true answer: And there is no reasonable debate RE: Day/Land timeline. Day first, then Land - which is stated to be three years deep into the ZA. And I'm not going down that damned road again because we've tread on that rotten path many a time here at HPOTD with wearying effect.

[JDP]

There is? Despite the convoluted analyzing, "logic", and constant arguing of one or two members, this is the only true answer: The truly ineffective "answer", that is, as it doesn't clarify anything of what keeps being pointed out that conflicts with the idea that Land comes after Day. Still waiting to see any reasonable counterarguments to the following observations: 1- The world of Day looks overall more decayed than the one of Land, including the zombies themselves 2- The world of Land still functions on an economy based on the US dollar; being paid is still extremely important, and people desire and will do all kinds of things to get their hands on money; the one of Day has no such thing, money is a thing of the past, including the very government that backed it up; "being paid" for something has in fact become a joke, as there is no use for money anymore, which now lies on the streets like other garbage 3- The survivors of Day have no notion whatsoever that such things as the "Outposts" of Land exist, even despite the fact their existence was actually advertised by the media while it was still around, and the only viable option for possible survival they consider is to look for some place isolated from the mainland, like an island 4- The survivors of Land can still be so unacquainted with the zombies that they don't even know how long it takes for a bitten person to die and come back as a zombie (notice that this ignorance also still happens in Dawn), while the survivors of Day are all very well acquainted with this fact and quickly try to dispatch anyone who gets bitten 5- Travelling by land in the world of Day is not considered as viable (and it cannot be argued that it is because of a lack of vehicles... they have TONS of them at their disposal!), so naturally everyone wants to have control over the chopper, the only safe way of travelling long distances; the world of Land is still relatively safe enough for most transportation (even for very long distances) to actually be by ground vehicles, even uncovered ones! 6- The survivors from Land are still looting towns that are very near their VERY POPULOUS AND THUS SUPPLY-DEMANDING city, and still finding loads of supplies... Really? After "3" supposed years??? This "it's been 3 years since the zombie outbreak of Night" bit is an assumption, based on what a couple of characters say about OTHER EVENTS that are never explicitly connected to the zombies themselves: a wino claiming that he hasn't driven a car in three years in order to clear himself from suspicion of car theft, and a hired goon stating that he has worked for his boss for three years 7- There is no clear statement in Day either regarding how long has it been since the events of Night. One character refers to theories about the zombies that "were advanced months ago", but that does not mean that there weren't other previous theories before that, which were also advanced other months before, only to be proven wrong and replaced by newer ones, and so on. The same character also refers to their current operation as having been "put together in a matter of days", but that only refers to how long the thing was planned, definitely not how long they have actually been there in that bunker. We can also get a good idea of how long they have actually been in that place by the fact that they have built a "corral" for the zombies in a section of the caves, and have captured and transported a SHITLOAD of them down there. That alone by itself tells us that these guys have been around this place for quite a while. Just look at how much trouble capturing and handling a couple of zombies give them, now imagine having to repeat this until they have gathered the large number of zombies they brought down to those caves!

[beat_truck]

At this point, does anyone even bother reading JDP's posts on this subject? I don't, because I know it's the same old crackpot theories that I've read before, ad nauseam. Christ, you'd think he'd get tired of typing it over and over.

[JDP]

At this point, does anyone even bother reading JDP's posts on this subject? I don't, because I know it's the same old crackpot theories that I've read before, ad nauseam. Christ, you'd think he'd get tired of typing it over and over. You should, because then you would realize that there is nothing "crackpot" about it, and the only ones being (purposefully?) obtuse are in fact the deniers that you strangely keep on siding with. Much like you, they can never provide any satisfactory answer for all the above observations that keep on contradicting their assurances that Land can only supposedly happen after Day. What is actually shown, explicitly and implicitly, in these movies suggests a very different thing than they claim, though.

[MinionZombie]

There is actually plenty of "reasonable debate", and you know very well the reasons, the ones that you try to avoid since there really is no good counterarguments against them. Uh-huh.