Reevaluating Dawn of the Dead

[EvilNed]

So I just rewatched Dawn of the Dead for what must have been like 5 years. It was a film I grew up on and has never really been my favorite (that spot belongs to Day). But seeing it now felt like seeing it in new light. Maybe it's just because it's been awhile ago. It really is a great film. The opening sequences - everything leading up to the mall - is probably the best depiction of society on the brink of collapse that I've ever seen (and i've seen it all, I guess). I just feel like we never get to see THAT part. We always see either the very first zombies and a ragtag group of survivors, or we're thrown years into the apocalypse. We never get to see how society itself reacts and tries to respond to the epidemic. This has always been my favorite part of the Zombie apocalypse. We see a bit of this in Dawn and it's very well done. Overall I have to say Dawn showcases a real attention to detail. Especially when it comes to the characters. They're all well acted and well directed. Subtle hints at what they feel and no real cheesy dialoge. While I enjoy Land and later Z-films, it is beyond me that Dawn and Day are directed by the same guy who later did... Diary and Survival. What happened? Anyway... If there's anyone out there who hasn't seen Dawn in a few years. Give it another whirl. It really is amazing.

[Neil]

So I just rewatched Dawn of the Dead for what must have been like 5 years. It was a film I grew up on and has never really been my favorite (that spot belongs to Day). But seeing it now felt like seeing it in new light. Maybe it's just because it's been awhile ago. It really is a great film. The opening sequences - everything leading up to the mall - is probably the best depiction of society on the brink of collapse that I've ever seen (and i've seen it all, I guess). I just feel like we never get to see THAT part. We always see either the very first zombies and a ragtag group of survivors, or we're thrown years into the apocalypse. We never get to see how society itself reacts and tries to respond to the epidemic. This has always been my favorite part of the Zombie apocalypse. We see a bit of this in Dawn and it's very well done. Overall I have to say Dawn showcases a real attention to detail. Especially when it comes to the characters. They're all well acted and well directed. Subtle hints at what they feel and no real cheesy dialoge. While I enjoy Land and later Z-films, it is beyond me that Dawn and Day are directed by the same guy who later did... Diary and Survival. What happened? Anyway... If there's anyone out there who hasn't seen Dawn in a few years. Give it another whirl. It really is amazing. I assume this was the regular US cinema version you watched?

[shootemindehead]

I've just made my own cut of 'Dawn of the Dead', which basically excises that awful chopper zombie gag (Dario was band on with that) and that appallingly bad pie fight towards the end. But yeh, limitations notwithstanding, 'Dawn of the Dead' is a very good picture, but I do think that people who consider it better than 'Day of the Dead' are bonkers. 'Day of the Dead' is the zenith of zombie films. I've, on numerous occasions, sat people down in front of it and delighted in their reaction to the film. Usually, they think it's going to be some sort nonsense like 'Return of the Living Dead' or cheap trash like 'Zombie Flesh Eaters' and are then knocked for six. Although, I've yet to try it with a Walking Dead fan. I wonder how that would play out.

[EvilNed]

Yes, Neil, it was the theatrical version. I've seen the extended one as well but to be honest I'm not that much of a fan. And yes, shootem, what brings Dawn down are 1) The pie fight. What the hell... 2) Some of the library music used is just so off. Worst of all is Peter's hero music at the end. Whereas at the same time, Goblin's score is downright haunting. Perfect fit - but a real odd combo. I haven't seen the European cut. I hear it removes all library music...

[facestabber]

I've just made my own cut of 'Dawn of the Dead', which basically excises that awful chopper zombie gag (Dario was band on with that) and that appallingly bad pie fight towards the end. But yeh, limitations notwithstanding, 'Dawn of the Dead' is a very good picture, but I do think that people who consider it better than 'Day of the Dead' are bonkers. 'Day of the Dead' is the zenith of zombie films. I've, on numerous occasions, sat people down in front of it and delighted in their reaction to the film. Usually, they think it's going to be some sort nonsense like 'Return of the Living Dead' or cheap trash like 'Zombie Flesh Eaters' and are then knocked for six. Although, I've yet to try it with a Walking Dead fan. I wonder how that would play out. I tried encouraging a young 23ish girl that is a fan of zombies because of TWD, to try Day. She turned off Day of the Dead and called me an idiot. Said it was horrible. TWD is just a different animal. That experience taught me the younger folks aren't really down with Romero's work.

[shootemindehead]

You should have tired her down and made her watch til the end. Then left her in the dark all night to think about what she'd done, Dr. Logan style. - - - Updated - - - Yes, Neil, it was the theatrical version. I've seen the extended one as well but to be honest I'm not that much of a fan. And yes, shootem, what brings Dawn down are 1) The pie fight. What the hell... 2) Some of the library music used is just so off. Worst of all is Peter's hero music at the end. Whereas at the same time, Goblin's score is downright haunting. Perfect fit - but a real odd combo. I haven't seen the European cut. I hear it removes all library music... I got the anchor bay DVD box set a number of years ago with all the various cuts. A lot of people seem to like the Argento cut, but personally I prefer the extended Romero cut myself, minus the chopper zombie and pies of course. The awful music at the end is truly laughable, but I didn't think Goblin's rock music suited the scene either TBH. But, the music throughout is quite good.

[slayerized]

Yes, Neil, it was the theatrical version. I've seen the extended one as well but to be honest I'm not that much of a fan. And yes, shootem, what brings Dawn down are 1) The pie fight. What the hell... 2) Some of the library music used is just so off. Worst of all is Peter's hero music at the end. Whereas at the same time, Goblin's score is downright haunting. Perfect fit - but a real odd combo. I haven't seen the European cut. I hear it removes all library music... What's wrong with Pie Fight?? I would take the Pie Fight in Dawn of the Dead over any part of Land, Diary or Survival any day of the week... I view it almost like Pink Floyd The Wall -- it's a masterpiece in it's entirety - yes it has it's flaws but that's what ultimately gives it it's character...it blends just the right mix if satire, humor and horror and because of that I believe (my opinion anyway) Romero's US Theatrical cut IS Dawn of the Dead...Argento's Zombi loses that and it just doesn't work the same way

[wayzim]

What's wrong with Pie Fight?? I would take the Pie Fight in Dawn of the Dead over any part of Land, Diary or Survival any day of the week... I view it almost like Pink Floyd The Wall -- it's a masterpiece in it's entirety - yes it has it's flaws but that's what ultimately gives it it's character...it blends just the right mix if satire, humor and horror and because of that I believe (my opinion anyway) Romero's US Theatrical cut IS Dawn of the Dead...Argento's Zombi loses that and it just doesn't work the same way I guess it's both my age and long time interest in survivor psychology that I didn't have a big issue with the pie fight. The raiders were in control; so they thought, and the zombies simply weren't that big a threat to them. I think we would call that Hubris? Now the dude in the sombrero trying to get his blood pressure tested; THAT was a groaner.

[JDP]

What's wrong with Pie Fight?? I would take the Pie Fight in Dawn of the Dead over any part of Land, Diary or Survival any day of the week... I view it almost like Pink Floyd The Wall -- it's a masterpiece in it's entirety - yes it has it's flaws but that's what ultimately gives it it's character...it blends just the right mix if satire, humor and horror and because of that I believe (my opinion anyway) Romero's US Theatrical cut IS Dawn of the Dead...Argento's Zombi loses that and it just doesn't work the same way The only problem I have with the "Pie Fight" sequence is the scene where we see the biker played by Tom Savini ("Blades") among some zombies watching the other bikers screwing around with some other zombies and NONE of them attack him!

[kidgloves]

Greatest movie in history in my mind.

[Trin]

For me, Dawn captures something that the other movies in the series lack. It is a realism to the characters (the core group) and the bond they develop. They are very relatable. They have personality differences and they argue/fight at times, but they ultimately look out for one another. I find it very easy to be engaged with the group, their actions, their decisions, etc. Even when they screw up (with disastrous results) I don't find myself second guessing them, or screaming WTF. It has become rare (if not unheard of) that the zombie genre focuses on a group working together without interpersonal conflicts driving the main plot. In Dawn, the bulk of the movie highlights the struggle to survive against the zombies. The Mall then sends it over the top. Who hasn't dreamed of having an entire mall as their personal playground?

[kidgloves]

For me, Dawn captures something that the other movies in the series lack. It is a realism to the characters (the core group) and the bond they develop. They are very relatable. They have personality differences and they argue/fight at times, but they ultimately look out for one another. I find it very easy to be engaged with the group, their actions, their decisions, etc. Even when they screw up (with disastrous results) I don't find myself second guessing them, or screaming WTF. It has become rare (if not unheard of) that the zombie genre focuses on a group working together without interpersonal conflicts driving the main plot. In Dawn, the bulk of the movie highlights the struggle to survive against the zombies. The Mall then sends it over the top. Who hasn't dreamed of having an entire mall as their personal playground? This +1

[EvilNed]

I agree that the characters are what make the film. There's another aspect of it tho, that I reflected on upon seeing it recently. Despite this being the end of the world, the group are all very materialistic. I mean, it's over-the-top obvious with Stephen at the end when he goes off on a rail about how the mall is "ours", there's hints even before that. Like when they first run down the mall and take a look. They come up, fighting off the hare krishna zombie and then Stephen holds Fran and calms her down by promising her a bunch of "stuff". Not even in the face of total societal apocalypse can they even begin to imagine a life that's not centered around material wealth. Not until the very end of the film, when Fran and Peter escape from the mall, must they accept that the world is gone forever.

[MinionZombie]

I tried encouraging a young 23ish girl that is a fan of zombies because of TWD, to try Day. She turned off Day of the Dead and called me an idiot. Said it was horrible. TWD is just a different animal. That experience taught me the younger folks aren't really down with Romero's work. Sounds like she needs to be corrected, Sir. To be fair, there are movies I love now that I just absolutely did not get when I first saw them when I was several years younger. I hated John Carpenter's "The Fog" when I first saw it at 14, but then re-watched it a few years later and absolutely loved it (which remains my feeling for it to this day - love it!). Sometimes you have to ease into a particular era of filmmaking, or style of filmmaking, or even a filmmaker's work in general. You have to ease in somehow - for instance, my access point for the entire giallo genre was through Dario Argento's work, while thinking of some of them (such as Tenebrae) in my mind as a slasher video nasty than as a giallo ... so yeah, sometimes it's the access point and the timing of your exposure to a new cinematic world. You should have tired her down and made her watch til the end. Then left her in the dark all night to think about what she'd done, Dr. Logan style. I got the anchor bay DVD box set a number of years ago with all the various cuts. A lot of people seem to like the Argento cut, but personally I prefer the extended Romero cut myself, minus the chopper zombie and pies of course. 1) Savage. 2) The "Ultimate Edition"? 4-disc set? Yeah, I've got that one too. The first time I saw Dawn was in the extended cut, so that's always been the movie to me. I love all the additional stuff and always miss it when I watch Romero's cut. I can't stand Argento's cut of the film. It misses all the themes of the flick, the Goblin music - great though it may be - is totally overused, and the large chunks of missing material leaves various gaps and holes that irritate. It's interesting as a curio, but it's such a mess generally, especially when compared to GAR's cuts - as the director intended! I disagree on the chopper zombie and the pie fight - I dig them both. I do enjoy the sense of fun that the pie fight has - these goddamned bikers running hog wild, they would do something that stupid and bizarre - and the chopper kill is just awesome. Greatest movie in history in my mind. Hooray! Day has been praised as superior elsewhere in this thread, and while in my heart I don't agree, critically speaking I do agree that in several aspects Day of the Dead is a superior film to Dawn ... although Dawn's cultural importance and legacy is far wider. Dawn is a cinematic landmark, whereas Day never attained that status (unfairly so, too) ... but yes ... while my love of Dawn has never faltered since I first saw it (it blew my fucking mind, I tell you), my love of Day has only got warmer and warmer as the years have passed. Everytime I go back to that movie I get more and more out of it - I loved it from the get-go as well, but I've gained considerably more from it with each viewing compared to Dawn ... although that film, too, has afforded me many riches over the years with new experiences even after multiple viewings (I recall, on yet another viewing - 20-something times - the opening half hour before they get to the mall just floored me, I felt physically overwhelmed by the sheer speed and chaos of it all - especially the TV station and SWAT sequences ... just absolutely run over by a bulldozer amazing).

[facestabber]

I've just made my own cut of 'Dawn of the Dead', which basically excises that awful chopper zombie gag (Dario was band on with that) and that appallingly bad pie fight towards the end. But yeh, limitations notwithstanding, 'Dawn of the Dead' is a very good picture, but I do think that people who consider it better than 'Day of the Dead' are bonkers. 'Day of the Dead' is the zenith of zombie films. I've, on numerous occasions, sat people down in front of it and delighted in their reaction to the film. Usually, they think it's going to be some sort nonsense like 'Return of the Living Dead' or cheap trash like 'Zombie Flesh Eaters' and are then knocked for six. Although, I've yet to try it with a Walking Dead fan. I wonder how that would play out. I grew up on Dawn and it was always my favorite but Day has over taken it.