TWD 9x01 "A New Beginning" episode discussion... **SPOILERS**

[MinionZombie]

Please keep all talk of episode 9x01 "A New Beginning" specifically inside this thread. If you have a theory for a following episode, please use the "spoiler tags" (visit the HPOTD FAQ to find out how to use them if you don't already know). Similarly, if you're going to discuss plot points from the comic book, please use "spoiler tags" - not everyone is up-to-date on them, and some people don't read them at all. Enjoy! Directed by: Greg Nicotero Written by: Angela Kang So ... the final episodes of Rick Grimes begins. However, there's much to look forward to with an 18 month time jump and a trip to a zombie ravaged city. I read an article yesterday that said that Andrew Lincoln is going to shadow one of the directors with the intention of coming back to TWD behind the camera to direct an episode. Indeed, episode 9x07 is directed by Michael Cudlitz (Abraham). Also of note in the article I mentioned was that Lincoln had a discussion with Gimple saying that 8 seasons felt about right, but he decided late in-the-game that he wasn't quite ready to go yet and wanted to do it properly ... now, the cynically-minded might still be prone to feel that part of the decision was instigated by the dodgy treatment of Riggs with the death of Carl (something which, with the leaving of Rick Grimes this season, now feels like a really stupid idea as having Carl take over the throne, as it were, would have been perfect for the overall story). Anyway ... let's see what comes, eh?

[facestabber]

Yea minion at the end of the day I just can't stomach TWD without Rick. I will watch as long as I can but it's just gutting to know Rick story is ending. And like you I would have been more understanding if Carl was kept alive as the Grimes story would continue. And Shane as dad or not I'm not concerned with Judith as a Grimes story. Always been Rick 1st, then Carl. The fact that Lincoln voiced his eventual exit during season 4 I will never understand the decision to kill Carl. Moronic. This Sunday will be a first for me. Due to probable civil unrest in Chicago I will not be able to watch a season premiere live.

[Moon Knight]

Chandler couldn’t carry the show. Simple as that. I’m a way, I’m very curious on how the show moves forward without Rick. I’m just glad Lincoln gave us nine years. Could have been worse. If the show can actually change for the better, cause let’s be honest, it was really starting to decline in quality and that was with Rick, then I’ll be happy. If not, then it was a pretty damn good run. Either way, very excited for the next chapter.

[facestabber]

Chandler couldn’t carry the show. Simple as that. I’m a way, I’m very curious on how the show moves forward without Rick. I’m just glad Lincoln gave us nine years. Could have been worse. If the show can actually change for the better, cause let’s be honest, it was really starting to decline in quality and that was with Rick, then I’ll be happy. If not, then it was a pretty damn good run. Either way, very excited for the next chapter. I completely agree Riggs couldnt carry the show. Lincoln is by far the most talented actor on the show. Show has been on a decline since season 5 but it certainly wasnt the acting of Lincoln(I know you know that moon). Carl needed to be around though. I wouldnt expect him to lead the current group. How could a teenager be expected to lead world class survivors like Daryl and Michonne hahaha. TWD should have closed shop with Lincolns exit, thrown the money at Fear and hoped for the best. Rick was the people champ. The entire premise of the show has been Rick Grimes guiding and growing his son through the ZA. And now we are all robbed of the payoff this journey has been leading up to since 10/31/10.

[Moon Knight]

I completely agree Riggs couldnt carry the show. Lincoln is by far the most talented actor on the show. Show has been on a decline since season 5 but it certainly wasnt the acting of Lincoln(I know you know that moon). Carl needed to be around though. I wouldnt expect him to lead the current group. How could a teenager be expected to lead world class survivors like Daryl and Michonne hahaha. TWD should have closed shop with Lincolns exit, thrown the money at Fear and hoped for the best. Rick was the people champ. The entire premise of the show has been Rick Grimes guiding and growing his son through the ZA. And now we are all robbed of the payoff this journey has been leading up to since 10/31/10. I can agree. I also am not a fan of comic Carl and actually preferred the Riggs version. Riggs won me over during season 4. Edit: For anyone who has AMC Premier you can actually watch the premier the night before. I know Facestabber had mentioned he couldn’t watch it Sunday night.

[MinionZombie]

Well, naturally Riggs doesn't have the same acting chops as Lincoln, because Lincoln has a good couple of decades experience on Riggs, plus his innate gift for acting. However, Riggs was marching a very good path as the show went on, developing his craft, and while Carl couldn't have replaced Rick (I agree, you'd need other leaders to jointly take Rick Grimes' place), it would have been really interesting to see that transition of the Alexandria throne - we got a snifter of it in the middle of season 8 during the bombing of Alexandria, so we've been robbed of fascinating storylines centering around Carl - a young man inherits the throne, but he's not quite ready to shoulder all the responsibility and emotional toll of it, plus we could have seen more development of a Negan/Carl relationship with Carl fatherless and finding some kind of adult male kinship in a strange way in the form of an imprisoned Negan (who, himself, could be changing due to his incarceration). We could have also seen Carl develop more of a relationship with Edith. It's interesting, really, because the show does some stuff better and the comics does other things better. Moon - I like the optimism. If Kang & Co can pull off losing Rick then I'll be relieved (there are, after all, a whole host of superb characters - but finding a new and worthy lead amidst them is the big challenge). TWD has the scale, too, and I'm fascinated to see the post-AOW society develop. I was always irked by those who said that AOW was 'more of the same', when it clearly wasn't. It lays foundations for everything to come ... now, what's to come on the TV show will be different to what came after in the comics in some ways. I circle back to TV networks needing to think more sustainably about their shows - a combination of shorter seasons (10 episodes is plenty, there's so much choice out there, and a leaner order with no filler works better for audiences as well as the cast & crew) with a more concise overview of the entire show's potential span. They also need to not drain all the juice out of it, and in the instance of TWD I feel that FearTWD has drained some of the juice from TWD. Behind-the-scenes staff getting stretched thinner, for example, but I feel that Fear has contributed towards 'too much zombie stuff on AMC', sapping a bit of the anticipation build up that we had in previous seasons. Now, the viewing figures of TWD and Fear are decidedly different, but even still I think it has something of a negative effect. You've got 32 episodes of zombie shows - plus another 32 episodes of Talking Dead - every year. It's too much. These networks need to think about the work/life balance of their cast & crew, as well. Six fewer episodes per season would give everyone more time to refill their creative juices, spend time with their families, as well as pursue other creative endeavours and come back to their main job refreshed and fulfilled. They need to think long term - what if cast members find success elsewhere or gain lucrative offers from bigger enterprises? What if your lead gets sick of being away from their family? It feels as if longer term conversations and thoughts about these shows don't get discussed enough, as if, in the end, the corporate dollar speaks louder than anything else and demands too much too fast too soon, which just ain't sustainable.

[Neil]

Well... It'g going to be interesting to see how the show "adapts"...

[Moon Knight]

I’m a horror fan and lover of the zombie genre. As long as there is a show with the quality of TWD on, I’m gonna give it a chance; even if it means getting something a little different than what I’m getting in the comic. Tbh, I really dislike the current comic storyline and hope they go in a totally different direction. Considering Rick will be gone as well as Maggie to an extent, now is the time to craft a different path. MZ, I like your take on how Carl could have been used.

[MinionZombie]

I’m a horror fan and lover of the zombie genre. As long as there is a show with the quality of TWD on, I’m gonna give it a chance; even if it means getting something a little different than what I’m getting in the comic. Tbh, I really dislike the current comic storyline and hope they go in a totally different direction. Considering Rick will be gone as well as Maggie to an extent, now is the time to craft a different path. MZ, I like your take on how Carl could have been used. Yeah, despite the recent flaws that have burrowed their way into TWD, it's still a great show ... it's just so frustrating when you see certain mistakes or mis-steps happening (especially if AMC corporate execs have something to do with it) ... ... but TWD has a lot going for it from the top class acting talent, to the continued oversight and talent of horror icon Nicotero (as well as KNB), to the "TWD family" production on-set as well as a solid set of writers (albeit some better than others). I keep up with the comics series via the trade paperbacks, so I'm a few issues behind (why they can't synch it up a bit better is beyond me - so you could be on-par every six months, rather than behing at best 3 or 4 issues behind and as many as 8 to 10 issues behind the curve). There's a lot of interesting stuff that I'm digging, but overall the post-AOW stories in the comics have been patchy. I dearly hope that the Whisperers storyline gets a lot of work, because it was a bit 'meh' in the comics for various reasons (few of them simple to solve ... it was more in the overall vibe of that plotline). But considering the big changes - the loss of Carl, Rick, and so it seems Maggie (in one way or another) - then I hope that Kang & Co have truly changed and adapted what was originally on the page and haven't just tacked bits and pieces of C/R/M's stories onto other players in the show. I hope the whole Whisperers plotline has had a ground-up re-working.

[facestabber]

Just heard Scott Wilson passed away. He made Hershel Greene such a great character. Glad I got to meet him and shake his hand.

[bassman]

Just heard Scott Wilson passed away. He made Hershel Greene such a great character. Glad I got to meet him and shake his hand. I was sorry to hear about this. Like you, I met him here in Atlanta and he was a wonderful guy to talk to for a few minutes. I would’ve loved to have had more time to talk to him, he’s one of those people that you could just happily listen to for hours on end. He was probably my favorite TWD actor to meet, next to David Morrisey(Governor). Outside of TWD, the man left us a great body of work too. Sorry to hear it was his time. RIP

[Moon Knight]

Scott Wilson was a very nice man. I’m glad I had the opportunity to meet him as well. RIP, sir.

[MinionZombie]

RIP Mr Wilson. I hope there'll be a nice tribute on Talking Dead.

[Moon Knight]

Quality work all around in the premier. The spider walker was gnarly. Gave me an Indiana Jones vibe. They cut straight to the chase and killed Gregory in the premier. That’s whats up. Daryl has already spoken more words than all of season 7 and 8 combined. Very cool comic intro and I’m glad they didn’t change the music. Nice update.

[facestabber]

I enjoyed that. Lotta foundation layed. A lot of scenes with the A team together again was great. Really dug Michonne telling Rick to listen to Daryl. There's two people whose instincts I trust over the rest and that's Daryl and Michonne. Carol seeking Daryls approval. And the old Pookey reference was a nice call back.