TWD 2x06 "Secrets" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN**

[MinionZombie]

Off you go folks, and as always be careful discussing the episode outside of this thread.

[kidgloves]

Looks like my boy Dale is going to have something to do in this episode. He's been a bit of an annoying old git so far this season. It seems a long time since he decapitated that zombie in episode 3

[Sammich]

I was right about Andrea just needing hysterical paroxysm treatment. I watch Dr. Phil show everyday and have learned a lot about how chicks operate.

[babomb]

Now that was a great episode!!! Wow. They should all be like that. Pacing was perfect, the name of the episode is perfectly fitting. Had me on the edge of my seat. They dragged all this shit out and then just dropped the bomb in 1 episode. I hope to see more of the house to house searches, that's the kind of shit I like to see in this type of scenario. Andrea's getting to be a great character. Dale is fuckin hilarious! I'm bored as hell of the whole "Homestead" thing. Waiting for them to move on. Shane might die this season!? Very possible... The cats are all out of the bag now. We can finally move on from all the secrecy. -- -------- Post added at 09:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:12 PM ---------- I was right about Andrea just needing hysterical paroxysm treatment. I watch Dr. Phil show everyday and have learned a lot about how chicks operate. Dr. Phil???? Seriously?? I don't think she was really exhibiting signs of hysteria. All of her behavior seemed warranted under the circumstances.

[Wyldwraith]

Wow, A lot of much-needed forward motion this episode. Lori coming clean FINALLY, Andrea and Shane getting together during the post-combat rush of being alive...which causes Dale to come out with his suspicions and what he's witnessed personally. Herschel locking it into stone that they have to leave.... That's a lot. Shane's response to Dale was so Shane, and made a lot of sense. On the other hand, Herschel's a trained vet....and his and his family's Muldoon-delusions about the Walkers flies in the face of that. I still can't relate to such a delusion...other than it being indicative of denial so deep that it's destroying the minds of Herschel and his people. The preview from next week seems to indicate Herschel is finally going to go beyond implying and actually push them out...and further, what seems to be Rick and Shane squaring off over being banished from the farm. Shane finally said it. Rick just isn't made for being a leader in this world. If he's willing to take a pregnant wife, a recovering son, still missing and not knowing what happened to Sophia...back out into the horror because a deluded old HYPOCRITE demands he must...I just don't know what to say to that. Me personally? I hate that this seems to keep happening, but I'm with Shane as to the world being different now. Herschel plays at being this very moral individual, but it's rice-paper thin. When push comes to shove his morality disappears in the face of his need to control everyone and everything around him like some sick twisted hybrid of Rhodes and Muldoon. Shoot the old man and and the 3-4 others remaining. Any man which would demand that people willing to peacefully coexist go back out into an apocalyptic ruin of a world that's killed 99.5% of the population is essentially a murderer. As such, and with jail not being a feasible alternative, Herschel should be executed for attempted mass-murder...and since it's a given that his little flock of brainwashed ninnies would become antagonists after said execution, do to them what Herschel intends to do to the group. Force them out, ill-prepared into a world trying to kill them. When civilization collapses, law must give way to justice. It is NOT (IMO) just to demand people go back out and face near-certain death just to suit the sensibilities of a deranged, cold old control freak. A lot of interesting issues brought to the fore this episode. Both in the actual episode and the sneak preview of the mid-season finale. Knew Dale was gonna call Shane out when he realized what had happened between Andrea and Shane. In his own way, Dale is just as bad as Herschel. Actually, and to be fair, Dale isn't QUITE as bad as Herschel because he doesn't delude himself into believing the "Muldoon Denial-Derangement" of Walkers simply being sick people...he doesn't consider terminating Walkers to be "an atrocity"...and Dale doesn't dismiss the danger Walkers pose by likening them to paranoid schizophrenics. Still, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that Rick will force the group to move on to comply with the Old Madman's demands. It's insane, what with everything going on with his wife and Carl/Daryl/T-Dog still recovering from serious injuries (which Herschel doesn't seem to give much of a damn about)...but that is how it will play out undoubtedly. Good, solid, INTERESTING episode. Loved the shootout at the Walkers in the community by Shane and Andrea. The way he covered and encouraged her, but insisted she calm herself, clear the jam and take out the nearing Walker herself was great stuff and obviously quite productive...It harkened back to the old-school throwing a kid into a pond to teach them how to swim if they didn't want to sink, and I really dug that. Even Dale confronting Shane felt very real, as did Shane's response. Thoughts? Edit/Note: Just saw the additional sneak preview of Rick and Herschel having the actual conversation where Herschel is adamant in insisting they go back out there/leave his property, despite being told Lori is pregnant. Wow, just, wow.....Herschel is a cold, hypocritical, delusional individual. I can't even begin to imagine circumstances under which, were I in Rick's position..Ie: Responsible for the continued safety and peace of mind of people I love...a number of people 2 or 3x greater than those of this unfeeling hypocrite making the murderously insane demands that would cause me to just accept said demand, pack my loved ones up and lead them back out into the horror just so this old madman can have his way. Honesty now: Who here is even somewhat convinced that in Rick's situation they would simply take their people and go on the say-so of one old unfeeling and delusional hypocrite? Not talking about what's "right" or "wrong" out here in our safe, non-apocalyptic civilized world. I'm talking about putting yourself in the shoes of a man thrust into a position of leadership and responsibility in the midst of a zombie apocalypse he regained consciousness in the middle of. A man with a wife who has a baby on the way, who just watched his son come within a hair's breadth of dying, and who knows most of the other members of his little family-group are either walking wounded or emotionally compromised on a deep level by Sofia's loss. Seriously: An old man is telling you decayed, still-rotting undead are still people that are just sick....Is perfectly ok with turning down help offered to secure that rickety barn...and who's absolutely adamant about kicking you and yours back out into the nightmare of almost-certain-death. Would you simply accept that, and comply with the Old Hypocrite's demand even though you're CERTAIN that compliance puts the people you care for back into terrible danger that they're worse off to face now than when they first came near Herschel's property? Yes, I can guess it's required to keep the group moving along the general arc of the comics...but I'm trying to relate to what I've seen on a personal What Would I Do level. Anyone?

[sandrock74]

I think I would move on, myself. I don't think I would remain comfortable essentially living outdoors. Remember that zombie horde from the first episode of the season? That was what, a mile or so away? (Maggie made mention the Green home was a mile down the road from the last exit) A simple change in direction and that army of zombies would be on top of them! It's quiet and peaceful there for the moment, but I wouldn't bet on that lasting longterm. As dangerous as it can be on the road, I would prefer being mobile and occassionally shacking up someplace for a bit. Living out in the open like that doesn't say "safe" to me. It means you can be attacked from any direction, like in Night of the Living Dead. Then, to find out about the zombies being kept in the barn...no deal! In short, hello road!

[babomb]

Shane finally said it. Rick just isn't made for being a leader in this world. I'd agree that RIGHT NOW Rick doesn't seem to have what it takes. But it's a toss up. Rick, like Herschel says, is a "man of conscience". As he comes to terms with the idea that he's "holding on to a way of thinking that doesn't make sense anymore" he'll become more of a leader. Shane, on the other hand, will continue to devolve. He's a selfish man who only gives a shit about Lori and Carl for selfish reasons. Herschel plays at being this very moral individual, but it's rice-paper thin. Agreed. Totally. That seems to be how many religious zealots are. Herschel should be executed for attempted mass-murder...and since it's a given that his little flock of brainwashed ninnies would become antagonists after said execution, do to them what Herschel intends to do to the group. Force them out, ill-prepared into a world trying to kill them. I see your point. I wouldn't go that far though. I don't think that Herschels little homestead would be as secure as it's being portrayed, in all reality. But the situation is that Herschel and his clan have been isolated from the rest of the world since before the apocalypse. Herschel is taking things too far, definitely. But the walkers in his barn are his family. It's a different story when you're encountering walkers out in the streets that are just walkers. But when your family members turn, it would be a bit more difficult. You have to remember too that nobody in TWD has a concept of zombies as we know them. The only reason that the group puts them down like they do is because they've been exposed to the carnage they cause and have had very many close calls. Herschel and his family haven't experienced it that way. Their exposure to walkers is from what they saw on TV and the walkers in the barn. So to them, walkers are sick people. I can see how that would happen under those circumstances. I mean, if my family came down with a fever right now and 1 of them became violent, I'm not gonna go shoot them in the head now am I? To us here it seems real cut and dry. But if we'd never heard of zombies, it would be an entirely different situation. Especially if we didn't routinely deal with people we didn't know, and the only exposure we had to this "sickness" was when our family members became infected with it. I also don't think that Herschel's other family members are as into his delusions as he is.

[ProfessorChaos]

great episode. it's really starting to feel like the comics to me. it's also great to see some of those dramatic moments and conversations from the original source material played out on film rather than reading words in a panel. rick and lori's conversation about the baby and her confession of her time with shane was well done and my hat's off to both actors... cool to see glenn and maggie's relationship develop; i still can't get over how spot-on yeung's portrayal of glenn is to me. the shane and andrea thing kinda took me by surprise. my gf called that one back in episode two, but i figured things would happen a bit differently. and dale's confrontation with shane over the type of guy he is was classic and helps set the scene for what's possibly coming soon for our group. not much daryl action in this episode, sadly. oh well, last week's episode was pretty much centered on him (not a bad thing, mind you), so i suppose that's fitting. i was beginning to have a bit of concern as well over the pacing of this season, but i should have had more faith and known things would be built up like this and knocked down like a house of cards in just an episode or two, much like AMC's other amazing originals, breaking bad and mad men. i'm very excited to see what happens next week, i've got a feeling the writers will leave us reeling and sitting around all winter discussing where things will pick up in february.

[Mr. Clean]

Great Episode....Hope Shane gets whats coming to him before he destorys the group. @Wyldwraith Herschel is a nut job but killing him and his gang to claim the farm isn't the right answer. Well, it might be if you want to act like a savage but I gotta tell you if the leader of my gang made a move to stiff arm innocent people out of their farm for his own safety then I'd question his judgement on moral decisions for the rest of the group. Think about it, you set up your own colony and others come wanting to join but by taking them in, you put a strain on your supplies and security. So by every right Herschel is justified by sending them away. Leaders get to make such decisions.

[bassman]

As mentioned before, wow they crammed a lot into this episode. The best thing I took away from this episode is Carl carrying a gun and wearing Rick's hat. When I saw that it was a real "oh sh*t, the comic has come to life" moment. Although i'm sure some people will start the old "soap opera" complaint, I like that Andrea hooked up with Shane in the show. Dale really got defensive over her and it should make for good tv in the episodes to come.

[acealive1]

herschel is not crazy. he seems be one of those people who'd rather "leave things like they are", i think he took issue with maggie and glenn getting close because...well....its pretty obvious....look at glenn. and he has a heart i guess because after it is his wife in that wife, and he proibably didnt hear ANY of the zombie reports in the radio or tv. maggie's hormones are seriously fucked up. and once again something i say, comes true on the show. i saw dale's reaction to shane's "story" about how otis died...and man dale is really cerebral. shane seems to not be crazy, but he put up an asshole front when confronted by dale. almost like he wanted to say something to get dale off his back and he didnt really mean what he said. andrea seems to be really.....uhm...........desperate? LOL end the sophia bullshit NOW.

[AcesandEights]

As mentioned before, wow they crammed a lot into this episode. Did they ever! But what a great episode to see so much come to a head. I really like the pace they've taken with Andrea's development...   I mean, it's taken a season and a half to get her to the point where she can even start the process of truly transitioning into a dependable badass character. That's an enviable character track for tv. I was also pretty sure they'd play up Shane teaching Andrea how to be comfortable with a gun and thus their connection to one another, which...   would make it all the more poignant when he dies, and she'd never forget how he helped her become a more capable person blah, blah, blah But I didn't know the writers would take it as far as they have. I did a double take when she groped Shane I also have to agree with Prof. on how well Yeun handles the role of Glenn, but that's something that a lot of folks have been saying for a while...I still think it bares repeating. Looks like my boy Dale is going to have something to do in this episode. And how right you were! The all-knowing grandfatherly schtick could get old, if overplayed, but it worked well this episode and damned if Dale doesn't have some serious stones for calling Shane out, in private no less, the way he did. I also think I prefer the way Lori came clean to Rick. I mean, it sort of seems like it could defuse some of the stereotypical baby/daddy love triangle tension, but will it really? It turns the expected dynamic on its ear somewhat and now we have to worry about how Shane and Rick will relate when the knowledge Lori is pregnant comes up. Lori coming clean was also the last thing I expected her to do at this point, so I was pleased.

[bassman]

maggie's hormones are seriously fucked up.. I don't think so. She got attacked by a walker for the first time and yeah, she overreacted a bit, but I think her reaction would be common amongst first timers. She risked her life to get abortion pills(something she's against because of her religion anyway) for someone else.

[kidgloves]

Very very good episode. I think its hit its stride now. Carl wearing the hat, shooting practice, zombies in the barn, eagle eye Andrea, Glen and Maggie, Herschel . Its starting to come together very nicely. On the subject of Herschel, i really can't relate to his behaviour but i've met many many people like him who don't like change. It seems to be something that comes to people late in life. They get set in their ways and resist anyones attempts to change them. This is the problem the group are facing. Looking at the preview it doesn't look like Ricks attempts at mediation are working and the whole thing will come to a head in the next episode. I had a bit of a problem with Carl being up and about while they are still searching for Sophia. Last episode he was bedridden and this one he's at shooting practice. Tv magic i suppose but it stood out being right at the beginning of the show.

[Thorn]

I think we have been down this road before, the debate about what you would do in an apocalypse and how it would change you. Who you would become, what you would want to become and where that starts and ends... To answer Wyld first... In recent issues of the trade we see Rick debating mentally similar things. Take what you feel you need to protect your people or stay true to your ideals and values. My friend and I fro mthe industry were discussing between issues and praying to God that Rick did NOT sell out his own dignity and become one who just takes what he wants, and tosses aside his values at the drop of a hat. I would not only argue that he is a great leader, but it is his morals and decency in large part that MAKE hi ma good leader. For example... I would follow Rick. I would never follow a Shane. If someone told me they decided they were going to kill an old man, and his family for the crime of having created a good thing for themselves i nth zombie apocalypse and not wanting us around because we were a drain on resources, a a threat to their existence, way of life, or whatever.. .I would likely side with Herschel. He may be wrong for asking me to go, but anyone willing to murder an entire family and take what is theirs is clearly and without question more wrong. It is hard because often these things come in conflict with each other. FOR ME personally I do not see this one farm as a place where I would sell out who I am, alter all that I feel is right, sacrifice my morals to take what I want because I feel it is best for me and my group. If you did what would really make you different than the Bikers in Dawn? Ride in, ask nicely, if you don't get it take it by force. Kill all who stand in your path. That is not only a slippery slope but one that is a sheer cliff right into the pits of asshole-dom. I would NEVER dream of it. This is the first place they stopped on their trip, it is safe because the people there put up fences, a vet provided care to people and animals. Their hard work, food, fuel, and courage kept it safe and made it what it is. I am sure there are other farms that are secure, other places like it. I wouldn't sell my soul for it, they fought for it and earned it. It is theirs if they want me to go I go. If that would kill my son, no I wouldn't go I would ask for more time. Ask for it nicely, and then arrange a compromise if needed. Carl is clearly able to travel, T-Dawg is clearly able to travel, and Lori is not 9 months pregnant and is clearly able to travel.. Sophia is the only question, but that is not Herschels problem, he cares about his and his own. Selfish? Maybe but if the argument is take what you want at all costs, isn't that more selfish? Bottom line, no I do not just shoot the old man in the face, execute his family, burn the barn to the ground and declare myself king of the farm. As to the episode, man what a great one Loved it from start to finish and while I dislike Shane he is still an amazing character, well written and acted. I loved him and Andrea getting it on. The stuff in the housing development was well done in every way. The conflicts, revelations, everything was just amazing.