 Originally Posted by MinionZombie
I've already seen a bunch of Tweets from 'out' voters who are now "regretting" their decision and would now vote to remain if they could! Well, it's a bit bloody late now, isn't it?! 
Bound to happen when people are voting on something they haven't a clue about really. The biggest "out" argument I kept hearing was about immigration, which is a concern, of course. But the bigger picture is...well...bigger. If voters are voting "out" simply on an immigration platform, it's like joining the first two dots and not bothering with the 20 other that make up the final picture.
Listening to the likes of duplicitous swine like Farage, etc, is going to lead people in the wrong direction. If the average Joe thinks he has their best interest at heart, they are sorely mistaken.
Originally Posted by MinionZombie
The state of the campaign was atrocious, and the media coverage was the epitomie of sodding useless and outright false.
Both sides, from what I can gather, were pretty dreadful. Nearly every debate ended up as "immigration vs it'll be bad". The only clear problem I could take away, is that the trade tariffs that Britain is exempt from now, will apply and the flow of EU money inwards will end. The debates on 'Question Time' were probably the most coherent and even they were a very poor attempt.
One could be forgiven if they come away with the impression the either side wants to stay or go...just because...
Originally Posted by MinionZombie
I will also say that part of the reason we've ended up here is the EU itself. Despite all the good that it has done, it's also done plenty of bad things - and acted on numerous occasions with displays of sheer arrogance. Had they not done that, and listened more, been more generous towards Britain, they wouldn't be suffering this headache now. Several other countries are now having rumblings about their membership - we're now the fart in the EU lift.
I also think - why on earth couldn't Cameron's renegotiation have been implemented first (all that work is now rendered pointless by Brexit), and then we could have lived with it for a spell, and then had the referendum. As it was, the renegotiation aspect seems to have had zero impact on the campaign and the debate itself. But I would also say, it would have further helped if the EU hadn't been so stingy and resistant to reasonable changes.
So there's a vast multitude of reasons why we are where we are, and why this entire thing is a colossal bugger up.
I used to believe that the Eu was a sound concept and it still is one, I voted for Maastricht. But, like most initially good concepts, it has been buggered by vested interests who are using the concept to their own nefarious ends. I think the EU has largely been hijacked by globalists with a neo-lib agenda, whereby the stick is used to "encourage", rather than proper negotiation to the public's benefit. Plus, there's a very disturbing "loan shark" mentality to those at the top of the EU these days, that sees entire nations hocked into debt, because it serves those at the top.
However, the EU has also been a very convenient whipping boy for the governments of the member states. They seem to blame the EU on a whole host of things that they themselves are responsible for. Take Greece, for example, who found themselves in the most appalling of circumstances. This was due to successive right wing governments borrowing stupid amounts of money and spending it like there was no tomorrow, because they believed that they could suck off the EU tit forever. Then the left wing get in of the back of that shambles, promise to leave the EU, but turn around and borrow more!
In addition, I don't like the way treaties are ratified in the EU. Currently, I believe that Ireland is the only member state that gets their people to vote on constitutional changes, while in other states, it's a government responsibility. This to me goes against the most basic of democratic fundamentals. Although, allowing the population to vote on EU referenda doesn't ensure the democratic process. The Irish had to vote again after they delivered a "no" vote on the Lisbon Treaty in 2008. Hardly what one would call democracy at its finest. However, that was the Irish governments (Fianna Fail) sole fault and not that of the EU. The Irish Govt. could have and should have abided by what the people voted for.
As it stands, I am in two minds about the EU. The trade concept is sound, but we already had that with the EEC in the 70's. However, it's the rules of the game that are the most concerning to ordinary people. From stupid things like not being able to import cans of spray paint, to disturbing things like the lack of real democratic focus on who is running the show, who they are making policy for and who is voting on it.
Part of me says stay in and make the changes and the other part says, fuck it, it's done.
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