TWD 7x04 "Service" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN*

[MinionZombie]

Please keep all talk of episode 7x04 "Service" specifically inside this thread. If you have a theory for a following episode, please use the "spoiler tags" (visit the HPOTD FAQ to find out how to use them if you don't already know). Similarly, if you're going to discuss plot points from the comic book, please use "spoiler tags" - not everyone is up-to-date on them, and some people don't read them at all. Enjoy! Directed by: David Boyd Written by: Corey Reed It's an extended episode this week and someone's come a-knockin' on Alexandria's gate.

[JDP]

It's an extended episode this week and someone's come a-knockin' on Alexandria's gate. And he'd better bring a large contingent of bodyguards with him if he does not want to become a prisoner himself.

[AcesandEights]

This was an interesting choice for a 90 minute format, as it wasn't balanced, with an action/thrills to talking points ratio decidedly low for 90 minutes. From that standpoint it was clearly a reset and foundation-laying episode, which I am hoping means we will have a very intense season from here on out.

[JDP]

Hehehehe! Negan finally realized who blasted one of his biker squads. And now he has the RPG. "Smart move", Alexandrians, you might as well put a big sign on your backs that says "KICK ME, PLEASE!" The Alexandrians must be getting dumber: they know that the Saviors are coming for sure to take away half of their stuff and they do not make the slightest effort to hide weapons, ammo, food, water, medicines, etc. in advance in a secret place at a safe distance from Alexandria so that the Saviors won't find them, and then alter the inventory records to make it look that they had much less supplies? Puh-leeze! And no, the fact that the Saviors showed up earlier than expected is no excuse. They should have taken these security measures IMMEDIATELY after they arrived to Alexandria and informed the others of what happened and what's coming to them.

[facestabber]

Hehehehe! Negan finally realized who blasted one of his biker squads. And now he has the RPG. "Smart move", Alexandrians, you might as well put a big sign on your backs that says "KICK ME, PLEASE!" The Alexandrians must be getting dumber: they know that the Saviors are coming for sure to take away half of their stuff and they do not make the slightest effort to hide weapons, ammo, food, water, medicines, etc. in advance in a secret place at a safe distance from Alexandria so that the Saviors won't find them, and then alter the inventory records to make it look that they had much less supplies? Puh-leeze! And no, the fact that the Saviors showed up earlier than expected is no excuse. They should have taken these security measures IMMEDIATELY after they arrived to Alexandria and informed the others of what happened and what's coming to them. Whole episode was depressing. A completely unarmed community!!!!!!!. Negan has the RPG and Deanna's camera filled with intel. I know Wylde has bailed but I give him credit. A couple machine guns, rpg, and some booby trap/explosives concealed at or near the only entry point in Alexandria would have shredded the bunched up Saviors, most importantly Negan. Granted Daryl would be lost, and it is a shit call but as soon as Negan actually showed up intsead of his goons alone, the time to strike was now. Sure the show needed it to happen this way for the secretive build up to war but I would like to hope I would have handled it differently. End of the day, Negan is a lying piece of shit. He doesn't want half, he takes what he wants. I'm glad Michonne saw the matresses and it furthered her resolve. At the moment Her Rosita and Carl have the balls to stand up.

[JDP]

Whole episode was depressing. A completely unarmed community!!!!!!!. Negan has the RPG and Deanna's camera filled with intel. I know Wylde has bailed but I give him credit. A couple machine guns, rpg, and some booby trap/explosives concealed at or near the only entry point in Alexandria would have shredded the bunched up Saviors, most importantly Negan. Granted Daryl would be lost, and it is a shit call but as soon as Negan actually showed up intsead of his goons alone, the time to strike was now. Sure the show needed it to happen this way for the secretive build up to war but I would like to hope I would have handled it differently. End of the day, Negan is a lying piece of shit. He doesn't want half, he takes what he wants. I'm glad Michonne saw the matresses and it furthered her resolve. At the moment Her Rosita and Carl have the balls to stand up. But even if they did not want to attack the Savior "visitors" for fear of endangering Daryl's life, the least they could do was hide enough weapons and provisions in advance so that these thieves don't leave them with virtually nothing. Just alter the inventory records (Negan in fact checks this to get a good idea of how many weapons they have so he can confiscate all their arsenal) and make it look like you have less than what you really have, and then hide a good amount of your weapons and supplies somewhere where the Saviors won't find them. For example, Negan did not have any idea that they had an RPG, when he sees it he immediately puts two-and-two together and deduces that it was the Alexandrians who blew up one of his biker groups. Did Negan even need to find out about this??? JUST HIDE THE DAMN THING OUTSIDE OF ALEXANDRIA IF YOU KNOW FOR SURE THAT THESE THUGS ARE GOING TO PAY YOU A VISIT TO STEAL A LOT OF YOUR POSSESSIONS! They know the area very well, unlike the Saviors, so I am sure they must know dozens of places where they can hide these items for when they might be needed later on. This is reducing the Alexandrians to dolts. We know that they are more savvy than this.

[MinionZombie]

If you were doing an ambush you'd have to know exactly when Negan's lot are coming - and Negan's lot turned up early - they arrived unexpectedly. Also - I'm assuming Negan had spotters watching Alexandria. They know where the place is, so if I was in Negan's shoes I'd have people camped out keeping an eye on the place just in case there was an ambush being set up. It would have been nice to have inserted a little moment where a handful of guys came down to join them - or were heard on a radio that Negan could have talked into. Just a little touch that would answer a couple of questions. It's also important to note - the will of the Ricktatorship has been broken! We're a couple of days on from the most horrific event any of them has experienced, their thirst for vengeance has almost entirely been sucked out of them. Rosita's a rarity, but she's acting brashly on her own - that's not a good idea. It's incredibly easy for us to act as armchair commanders giving it large - we've not had the experience that Team Rick have had. Lots of good bits of Negan stuff (JDM's nailing it) and his cult of personality. They're scumbags, alright, burning the matresses just to be dicks. The Saviours are like a zombie apocalypse mob combined with a general sense of giving up. The Saviours - Dwight is a perfect example - have bargained and bargained and bargained with themselves, cutting away at their morals more and more and more until they've become inured to such actions. They've become the bad guys and they're willing to do anything now - seeing it written all over the faces (and in the dialogue) of those women who took Maggie and Carol hostage in Season 6B sums up the mentality. TWD 7x04 Memes:

[facestabber]

If you were doing an ambush you'd have to know exactly when Negan's lot are coming - and Negan's lot turned up early - they arrived unexpectedly. Also - I'm assuming Negan had spotters watching Alexandria. They know where the place is, so if I was in Negan's shoes I'd have people camped out keeping an eye on the place just in case there was an ambush being set up. It would have been nice to have inserted a little moment where a handful of guys came down to join them - or were heard on a radio that Negan could have talked into. Just a little touch that would answer a couple of questions. It's also important to note - the will of the Ricktatorship has been broken! We're a couple of days on from the most horrific event any of them has experienced, their thirst for vengeance has almost entirely been sucked out of them. Rosita's a rarity, but she's acting brashly on her own - that's not a good idea. It's incredibly easy for us to act as armchair commanders giving it large - we've not had the experience that Team Rick have had. Lots of good bits of Negan stuff (JDM's nailing it) and his cult of personality. They're scumbags, alright, burning the matresses just to be dicks. The Saviours are like a zombie apocalypse mob combined with a general sense of giving up. The Saviours - Dwight is a perfect example - have bargained and bargained and bargained with themselves, cutting away at their morals more and more and more until they've become inured to such actions. They've become the bad guys and they're willing to do anything now - seeing it written all over the faces (and in the dialogue) of those women who took Maggie and Carol hostage in Season 6B sums up the mentality. TWD 7x04 Memes:   Given the single entry point to ASZ I would say that's a great place to set up an ambush. I agree that Negan would be smart to have spies and they should have shown that. But I would have set up the ambush inside the walls regardless. Spies couldn't see that set up. Just because an ambush is set up doesn't mean you have to follow through either. If negan marched a dozen children and women in front of him that would be tough call. ASZ acted like sheep and it sucks. I get it but it sucks.

[Moon Knight]

Rick just watched the man that saved his life early in the apocalypse and his loyal soldier get their heads brutally bashed in for NOT going with what Negan says. I don't blame Rick at all for caving in. Man has got two kids and entire group to look after. Nobody LOVES Rosita more than me but this time she played the dumb route. Wtf is she gonna do with a single gun? She's gonna put others; including herself, in absolute danger. Not my Rosita! Rick also put aside supplies for Negan so he just assumed Negan wasn't gonna just come in and take shit. The man did say half. He's a "Man of his word", demonstrating to Rick sadly days before; again, I understand Rick on that one. If you look at the deal with the Kingdom, they exchange far away from home base. Negan is just doing this torture Rick and the group. Taking away their mattresses is removing their comfort. Mind games. It's depressing but I can't wait to see Rick say "Fuck it, enough is enough." - not a line from the comic. JDM is killing it as Negan.

[facestabber]

Rick just watched the man that saved his life early in the apocalypse and his loyal soldier get their heads brutally bashed in for NOT going with what Negan says. I don't blame Rick at all for caving in. Man has got two kids and entire group to look after. Nobody LOVES Rosita more than me but this time she played the dumb route. Wtf is she gonna do with a single gun? She's gonna put others; including herself, in absolute danger. Not my Rosita! Rick also put aside supplies for Negan so he just assumed Negan wasn't gonna just come in and take shit. The man did say half. He's a "Man of his word", demonstrating to Rick sadly days before; again, I understand Rick on that one. If you look at the deal with the Kingdom, they exchange far away from home base. Negan is just doing this torture Rick and the group. Taking away their mattresses is removing their comfort. Mind games. It's depressing but I can't wait to see Rick say "Fuck it, enough is enough." - not a line from the comic. JDM is killing it as Negan. Rick also saw a close friend and respected mentor beheaded at the prison and he went rage mode. Laying down and taking it down the throat has never been Team Rick's creed(ok maybe it was Lori's). I get its part of the story to advance whats to come but it still sits bad in my gut. Prepare for contingencies. Negan at the gates with the fire power ASZ HAD was a missed opportunity of epic proportions. I will always be faithful to Rick Grimes and accept his strengths far outweigh his weakness but I would have been whispering in his ear similar to the ultra badass Maggie, prepare to fight. Maggie, near death and suffering the most with her baby daddy dying is the first to stand up, dust off and prepare to fight. I'm not saying the lineup was roses and rainbows, but this group has faced loss and despair before. And Moon, take it easy on your gal Rosita. Her and Michonne are the first steps toward the revolution.

[MinionZombie]

They've faced loss and despair before - but never an army of brainwashed thugs hellbent on their subjugation. They're in an incredibly perilous position right now. Best to keep their heads down, let things settle, then start formulating a plan. Rick considers Daryl his brother - would you lot sell your own down the river out of impatience? No, didn't think so.

[JDP]

That Negan doesn't have any spies around watching the place is easily deduced from the fact that he and his men ignore several things. For example, they don't know that Maggie is not really dead, and it does not look like she is even in Alexandria (bad place to hide, with them knowing that the Saviors were going to show up.) They also don't know that Michonne is around shooting a gun. They also have no idea of where Daryl's bike is (so they certainly haven't bothered to do searches of the surrounding areas to look for possible caches.) These guys just showed up without bothering to stalk the place at all. They know they have Daryl as a hostage so they are not afraid of things like ambushes or traps. Typical Savior overconfidence. On the other hand, it also shows that the Alexandrians were indeed expecting "bad" things to happen from the Saviors' "visit". They had the foresight to make an empty grave and put up a charade that Maggie is dead. Now, why didn't they also have the foresight of hiding weapons and supplies, just in case these blatant bandits decided to steal them blind? Simple preventive common sense, folks. Something we know Rick & company have had plenty of.

[kidgloves]

Love JDM's physical acting. Arrogance personified and I want the motherfucker dead so his performance is working on me

[MinionZombie]

And what's to say the Saviours wouldn't find the hidden stashes? You're running a major risk doing that. Glenn died from a mere punch as an infraction ... imagine the hell that would rain down upon you if a cache (or several caches) of hidden weapons were found? After such a heavy loss and having witnessed the potential for sheer sadism from Negan (the hatchet scene), the wise head is gonna take the lumps now to avoid the very real possibility of far, far, far worse later on. It didn't help that there was a clearly kept logbook of every weapon they had, either. Their paperwork screwed them over!

[facestabber]

They've faced loss and despair before - but never an army of brainwashed thugs hellbent on their subjugation. They're in an incredibly perilous position right now. Best to keep their heads down, let things settle, then start formulating a plan. Rick considers Daryl his brother - would you lot sell your own down the river out of impatience? No, didn't think so. They faced an army prepared to "kill em all"(minus Tara) This isn't impatience. This was opportunity. Never said the descision would be easy considering Daryl's abduction. But military leaders make those descisions all the time. Us Yankees wouldn't be free from you Tea drinkin Queen huggers if we didn't take chances. Brothers send brothers into harms way with no promise of return. In fact I would bet Daryl Dixon is heart broken that his family didn't send a hail of gunfire immediately after the first bullet shatters Negans chest. Maybe Daryl escapes death but now we know he is going back to a tortured life. Sucks being a leader. Sucks worse being a completely disarmed leader. Granted the show will save TR with guns and ammo and teammates from other communities. But the Saviors entrance was beyond reckless, ripe to be attacked. IIRC the saviors weren't even standing at a low ready firing position. They were literally just standing there bunched up. And I believe that killing Negan and a handful if not all of his followers would put ASZ in a much stronger position. Anyone who wants to argue that Rick did the smart move certainly can. And they will get payoff down the road with the writing gets us tough Rick back. But to not see that an epic opportunity was wasted????? Additionally having a town hall meeting after Negans arrival seems misplaced. 1st day emotions were too much, fine. But the next day should have been meeting time. ASZ people seem skeptical to bow down and appears that their voice wasn't entertained. - - - Updated - - - And what's to say the Saviours wouldn't find the hidden stashes? You're running a major risk doing that. Glenn died from a mere punch as an infraction ... imagine the hell that would rain down upon you if a cache (or several caches) of hidden weapons were found? After such a heavy loss and having witnessed the potential for sheer sadism from Negan (the hatchet scene), the wise head is gonna take the lumps now to avoid the very real possibility of far, far, far worse later on. It didn't help that there was a clearly kept logbook of every weapon they had, either. Their paperwork screwed them over! And when they discover Maggie is alive?