1200-1500 for camera, what are my options?

[Excessium]

Hello, I've been a "reader" for a few months now. I read this section from time to time. So hi everyone. Ok here is my question. I have about 1200-1500 to spend on a camera. I've been eyeing the Canon Xl1/xl1s. I was wondering if any of you that have been working with cameras could give me any input with my decision. Like what's the diff between the 2 cameras or is there anything else I should be looking at. I understand 28 Days Later was shot on one of the two cameras? It's just that I've had these ideas for movies,and anything related to zombie genre, in my head since I was about 12. I'm 29 now. Ever since I saw dawn, I've had an obession with the genre. I'm mean I had nightmares almost every night from the ages of 9-12 about the damn things. I am working on a screenplay atm. I'm tired of running zombies. The genre was based on horror, not action and kicking ass. It seems like Zombies are target practice for plastic molded characters who say "cool" one liners like: "it's a bad day to be a zombie." I'm simply tired of that ****. But anyhow, the cameras...yeah. Any advice would be a great benefit to me. Thanks in advance.

[DjfunkmasterG]

Basically they're useless right now. I mean they will do okay for a starter camera, but with models shooting 24fps that is what everyone is expecting when you shoot a indie project. The XL1S has much better image control than the XL1. I have seen XL1's go on ebay for about $1600. The XL1S is still getting above $2K If you can squeeze another $500 out of your pocket you should try and get a Panasonic DVX-100. Used they run about $1600-$2100

[Danny]

yeah the xl1s's and xl2's dont get off places like ebay for less than 2 grand and i havent seen them cheaper than £2300

[7734]

dude, whatever you do... DO NOT BUY USED cameras off ebay. Don't listen to how well maintained or barely used they are. The truth is that digital cameras will always give you problems; yes, you can delay greatly any eventual breakdown with proper care (Dry environments!!!, median temps, cleaner DV's). But if you can't send a camera back to the shop and have them fix it under warranty, chances are you will not have the cash to pay for very spendy repairs. Then you got a lump. So basically, it is worth it to buy new with warranty. As far as what camera you get, I don't believe it possible to buy an XL2 for anything under $3800. With that budget, I would suggest a Canon GL2 (It's what I have). Yes, if you keep it on auto everything you shoot will look like a home movie, but that's why thay got manual control. My theory is that to make the footage look good, you need to understand your focus function. If you don't know how to use it, everything will look flat; but if right focus, you can give footage a good depth of vision, thereby making it look more like a series of moving pictures, and there is your film. There's also editing software. Bearshare some Sony Vegas and play around with it, but for a release you may actually want to buy software. Any other thoughts?

[DjfunkmasterG]

Actually don't listen to 7734. All the cameras that shot DEADLANDS, my film, were purchased off eBay used. The DVX100 I used work flawlessly, I bought it from eBay seller "electronixmax". When you buy through him you can also buy 2 year service warranties.

[MinionZombie]

All I can say is the Panasonic DVX100B is a friggin' excellent camera, it cost me £2000, but it was worth every penny. I've turned into such a DVX nerd and everytime I see one on TV in the corner of the screen of some TV show or the news I jump up screaming "DVX!! DVX!!" ... *ahem* The DVX is a quality product, it really is. If you can stretch to that, go for that, because it's brilliant. When buying used (although I didn't, I wanted a brand new one), just be careful, make sure you're buying from a reputable dealer and have the whole guarantee jobby.

[Excessium]

Thanks for the replys thus far. As far as filming a zombie movie goes: My plan was to shoot around 4 short films before I start to think about shooting any zombie film. In the past 3 months I've read several books about anything film making. The book that inspired me the most would have to be Robert Rodriquez's book. After I read it, I went out and bought El Mariachi(the indy flick he shot/cut/directed/layed down audio) and was amazed with the quality of the movie. What I'm looking for is a starter camera. Something I can work with on my own and learn from. DJ: I was looking at the stuff Electronicmax was selling and thinking about going that route. /sigh. It's going to take alot wife factioning to allow me to spend 2k atm. She believes in my ideas, but she's urging me in the hand held camera direction. Where as I want something that will give me a "broader view". Fyi: The digital editing question is coming next.

[DjfunkmasterG]

Thanks for the replys thus far. As far as filming a zombie movie goes: My plan was to shoot around 4 short films before I start to think about shooting any zombie film. In the past 3 months I've read several books about anything film making. The book that inspired me the most would have to be Robert Rodriquez's book. After I read it, I went out and bought El Mariachi(the indy flick he shot/cut/directed/layed down audio) and was amazed with the quality of the movie. What I'm looking for is a starter camera. Something I can work with on my own and learn from. DJ: I was looking at the stuff Electronicmax was selling and thinking about going that route. /sigh. It's going to take alot wife factioning to allow me to spend 2k atm. She believes in my ideas, but she's urging me in the hand held camera direction. Where as I want something that will give me a "broader view". Fyi: The digital editing question is coming next. Stay away from anything cheap. you need a camera that has 3ccd's and can at least do 30fps. You could go the route of a Panasonic DVC-80 or a CANON GL2. I would also recommend the Sony VX2100, but with the VX and DVC they are native 4:3 cameras (The XV2100 is 16:9 in non progressive mode) whereas the Canon GL2 is 16:9 native all around. As stated to get close to the film look you should get something that handles 30fps then use Sony Vegas to de-interlace the hell out of the image and then export the finished file at 23/97 fps for that total film look.

[Excessium]

Thanks again bro.

[Mutineer]

I shoot with the DVX100-24p as well and cannot fathom using another camera in this price range. 24p is the way too go - If you just can't wing the extra duckets for the camera; try to at least get the XL1 for using it's Frame Mode Fyi: The digital editing question is coming next. I use Vegas 6 and love it. Super intuitive and kicks ass. Being on a PC, I would not use anything else personally. Mac user's ? Final Cut of course. ... use Sony Vegas to de-interlace the hell out of the image and then export the finished file at 23/97 fps for that total film look. Uuucckk. It's better than nothing I suppose but you'll lose half your resolution deinterlacing. At least then you can say you shot Super 8

[7734]

You'll regret it!!! Listening to me will cause your camera lens to cloud over and tape deck to sizzle into non warrantied hell. Bah... wherever you go spend money, just save some aside for a warranty. Onto another question. Why shoot interlaced footage just to de-interlace it on PC? I will try it (am fairly new to editing software) but it seems like the PC would do a better job at simply recording. I think my GL2's frame mode (fake 24p, right?) gives a hell of a feel (much like 28L, created with the GL2's bigger badder brother, the XL2). Thoughts?

[Danny]

Actually don't listen to 7734. All the cameras that shot DEADLANDS, my film, were purchased off eBay used. The DVX100 I used work flawlessly, I bought it from eBay seller "electronixmax". When you buy through him you can also buy 2 year service warranties. yeah ive got 2 camcorders off ebay and both were the ones on display in shops like comet or pc world and it got sent off to canon to be refurbished and then sold online at half the price both with warrantys and reciepts of the origional purchase, and i havent had any problems from either. cept the one i fell in a pool with but thats beside the point

[Mutineer]

You'll regret it!!! Listening to me will cause your camera lens to cloud over and tape deck to sizzle into non warrantied hell. Bah... wherever you go spend money, just save some aside for a warranty. Onto another question. Why shoot interlaced footage just to de-interlace it on PC? I will try it (am fairly new to editing software) but it seems like the PC would do a better job at simply recording. I think my GL2's frame mode (fake 24p, right?) gives a hell of a feel (much like 28L, created with the GL2's bigger badder brother, the XL2). Thoughts? I have seen some nice work from the GL2. I cannot stand the look of the XL2; but then again, I'm kind of a DVX100 snob. It comes down to the magician behind the camera It sounds like, for this guy, either choice would be the perfect entry level solution

[DjfunkmasterG]

You'll regret it!!! Listening to me will cause your camera lens to cloud over and tape deck to sizzle into non warrantied hell. Bah... wherever you go spend money, just save some aside for a warranty. Onto another question. Why shoot interlaced footage just to de-interlace it on PC? I will try it (am fairly new to editing software) but it seems like the PC would do a better job at simply recording. I think my GL2's frame mode (fake 24p, right?) gives a hell of a feel (much like 28L, created with the GL2's bigger badder brother, the XL2). Thoughts? GL2 frame mode is 29.97 frames per second. Shooting interlace allows you to play with the gain on a DVX100. When you shoot 24P in a DVX100 you cannot adjust gain properties

[Excessium]

All interesting reads guys, keep the comments coming. I am learning plenty. BTW anyone know what camera 28 days later was shot with? I love the feel of the movie. It wasn't polished, it was rough. I know it was shot on DV, but does anyone know what camera was used?