The Anti-Austerity Protests

[Cykotic]

I just wanna get you guys's (eloquent, I know) opinion on the Anti-Austerity marches that are happening across the world at the moment. I ask you this because today (October 20th), I attended the TUC marches in London (150,000 attended, then factor in the marches across the country). I was amazed at the strength of feeling regarding these cuts and to be honest, they do effect everyone, whether you know it or not. My Wife has secondary progressive multiple sclerosis and is reliant on her benefits to survive. As her carer, I get virtually no support from the government and basically rely on myself. Her benefits are to be slashed next year and these marches help highlight the fact that people across the country are in the same situation that certain organisations caused. I don't mean to bring politics into it, but it's almost impossible not to in this case. I don't know how it is for the US, but if things don't get better soon, it's all gonna go very very bad.

[Tricky]

I've got to say I definitely agree with cuts, I feel they're going about them the wrong way and targetting the wrong areas/people, but we couldn't stay on the same spiral of debt which we had been under Labour. Your wife is a prime example of where the wrong areas are being hit. Personally I think they need to stop paying benefits to all these perfectly healthy scumbags who just have no intention of ever working, I'm sick of seeing chav families where neither parent works who have loads of kids and have a far better lifestyle and more disposable income than I do, even though I work my arse off for the pittance I get. The majority of these scummy families also have secondary incomes coming in from criminal activities as well (which is why they all hate the Police because they keep getting caught or raided). The problem is no government will tackle these people properly because they make up the majority of voters these days, and any government who upsets them too much is bound to lose the next election. I think because of these cuts and the way they are being handled, the current government is handing over the next election to Labour who's election promise will be "no cuts", which will be an absolute disaster for the country, because they will just be true to form and spunk billions upon billions of money that the country doesn't have on appeasing the welfare state & daft projects, pushing us to the situation Greece is currently in. I just wish there was a party to vote for who were bloody good and weren't any of the ones we currently have to choose from.

[Cykotic]

because they will just be true to form and spunk billions upon billions of money I think thats a different type of event

[Mike70]

Personally I think they need to stop paying benefits to all these perfectly healthy scumbags who just have no intention of ever working, I'm sick of seeing chav families where neither parent works who have loads of kids and have a far better lifestyle and more disposable income than I do, even though I work my arse off for the pittance I get. The majority of these scummy families also have secondary incomes coming in from criminal activities as well (which is why they all hate the Police because they keep getting caught or raided). sounds like you should consider the system that many US states have where there are time limits on welfare and unemployment. every state is different but here in Ohio you can only collect welfare for 5 years and you MUST participate in a job training program (Ohio Works First) and sign a binding contract with the State that you work towards becoming self-sufficient. it is called the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act. in exchange for welfare payments, you have to learn a job skills. The major goal of Ohio Works First is to help participants transition from welfare dependancy toward personal responsibility, employment and self-sufficiency. House Bill 408 created specific requirements for OWF participants. One of the requirements is that all adult and minor head of household members of an OWF Assistance Group (AG) sign a Self-Sufficiency Contract (SSC). The SSC shall set forth the rights and responsibilities of the assistance group as applicants for and participants in Ohio Works First, including their work responsibilities. If any member of an OWF AG fails or refuses, without good cause, to sign the contract they are ineligible. If they do not comply in full with any of its provisions (including work assignments), the entire OWF AG shall be sanctioned by the CDHS using the three-tiered sanction process. The CDHS shall establish standards for the determination of good cause. the system also pays bonuses to families whose children graduate from high school and enter college and there are other education driven goals within the program. so, over here you cannot sit around on your ass forever and keep getting checks in the mail. you also have to prove you cannot find gainful employment or fall within 50% of the poverty level set by the Federal govt. if you have a disability that prevents you from working that is a separate issue and is handled differently. people who are unable to work because of a medical issue or an injury fall under another program and are taken care of for life. another difference is that over here you have to register to vote and most white trash and ghetto people don't even bother to do that. so, politicians rarely pander to the welfare crowd. they are reviled over here and nobody wants to hear a damn thing they say. keep in mind, all 50 states have completely different laws because they are sovereign entities within a federation. what is legal and true in my state might be illegal and untrue just over the river in Kentucky.

[Tricky]

sounds like you should consider the system that many US states have where there are time limits on welfare and unemployment. every state is different but here in Ohio you can only collect welfare for 5 years and you MUST participate in a job training program (Ohio Works First) and sign a binding contract with the State that you work towards becoming self-sufficient. it is call the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act. in exchange for welfare payments, you have to learn a job skills. . Sounds like a good idea to me Mike! Problem in the UK is that people who are on benefits as a lifestyle choice (not those who are disabled or have fallen on hard times) see absolutely no reason why they should have to work and they honestly believe they deserve the money they get, some of them even refer to it as "wages". Boils my piss!

[Andy]

Theres no real way to target anyone else on the scale that welfare and benefits are targetted.. i mean you can go after bankers and big businesses but in the long run you wouldnt claw back a fraction of what is spent on welfare and you would drive their business out of the UK and shaft our country even more than it is eventually, the cold hard truth of the matter is that welfare is the single largest expensive for the government and so must be tackled, if anything, i genuinely dont think cameron is going far enough. It really makes me laugh how short sighted and generally stupid people are, these protesters are swanning around like they live in a rich nation... you mark my words, labour will win the next general election becuase of fools like this and milliband as a prime minister will bury his head in the sand just like brown did and then by 2020, we'll be in front of the EU leaders with the begging bowl out, just like greece are now. People think the conservatives are tough? HA wait until germany is calling for cuts to be made in our country and they will be out to punish us.. these idiot liberals really will have something to cry about then.

[Mike70]

Sounds like a good idea to me Mike! Problem in the UK is that people who are on benefits as a lifestyle choice (not those who are disabled or have fallen on hard times) see absolutely no reason why they should have to work and they honestly believe they deserve the money they get, some of them even refer to it as "wages". Boils my piss! that would irritate me too, man. in fact, it irritated people so much that this kind of welfare reform was passed. I'm not trying to get up in the UK's business or tell you guys how you should or shouldn't do things (i hope that was clear from my original post). this is way that we choose to handle people who were spending their entire lives on welfare: time limits on benefits, job training, and incentives for education. it's about the most reasonable approach to it in my opinion. food stamps are another matter. they aren't "welfare" and any low income household with children can get them because that is what the food stamp program is supposed to be all about: making sure children get enough to eat. yeah, there are abuses of it (what program isn't abused or manipulated in someway by idiots?). but i have no problem with spending tax money on feeding kids, even if some dickheads misuse it.

[Cykotic]

I really didn't mean to cause any arguments about this...

[shootemindehead]

Ireland is a joke at the moment. The oligarchs who run the show over here are still indulging in their incompetent processes and have no intention of find a way out of the mess. Their idea is to up existing taxes and introduce new stealth taxes to further hamper peoples lives, like a property tax. Our government encouraged people to buy houses at extortionate prices and did nothing to make renting a viable option and now they're seeing it fit to try and grab more money off of people when the chips are down. Luckilly, most people have told them to go fuck themselves. Companies are shedding jobs here at the moment and finding work is becoming impossible for a great number of people. There's nearly half a million unemployed over here, out of a naton of 3.5 million and the governments answer is to start annoying people who are in welfare (through no fault of their own by and large) to "get a job", while doing nothing to encourage homegrown businesses, or success stories, or creating employment prospects of any kind. Day One of "How to Govern a Nation" should be job creation. Their solution out of the current crisis (caused by the inept and greedy "leadership" of western nations) is to make life so hard for people that they fuck off to another country (which usually means the UK or the US). This "safety valve" has been the fall back for successive Irish governments for decades. It's ALWAYS the same people that suffer. The middle and lower rungs of the ladder, while the cunts at the top never go through a difficult time. The bastards at the centre of all the trouble ordinary people have had to endure since 2008 are still walking about. In some cases their advice is still being sought! They should be hanging from lamp posts as a warning. I'm delighted that people are marching, but what's really needed is targeted riots on the fuckers that caused the problems in the first place.

[Mike70]

I really didn't mean to cause any arguments about this... nah. seems to me you are stuck in a shit situation and your wife is one of the people that social support systems are designed to help but yet, for some reason, they are the very people who are failed the most by them. this is one of those things that cuts across national boundaries: how do we care for those genuinely in need and weed out those who are trying to work the system. i'm not sure there is a good answer to that. i pay a shitload in taxes and don't mind at all if it is being spent to help folks in need, either through medical conditions or just plain shit luck because their jobs have shipped to places where wage slaves work 6 days a week, 12 hours a day for 75 cents an hour. because if we don't take care of one another, who the hell will? - - - Updated - - - It's ALWAYS the same people that suffer. The middle and lower rungs of the ladder, while the cunts at the top never go through a difficult time. The bastards at the centre of all the trouble ordinary people have had to endure since 2008 are still walking about. In some cases their advice is still being sought! They should be hanging from lamp posts as a warning. I'm delighted that people are marching, but what's really needed is targeted riots on the fuckers that caused the problems in the first place. on the lighter side: if i didn't know better, i would swear that we were separated at birth.

[rightwing401]

My take on this mess is that those freeloaders are going to learn one way or the other that you can't have a majority of the people sitting on their asses getting free handouts forever. Either the necessary cuts are going to happen and those deadbeats are going to be forced to get a job and work for a living just like the rest of us, or things are just going to keep on going until the government finally runs out of money and can't pay them anymore. It's really just that simple. Only difference is, if option two is taken, then they're going to drag everyone else down with them. My heart really goes out to all you good folks on the other side of the pond. Really wish things hadn't gotten to this point for you. Specially you Cykoyic, you're wife should be recieving at least modest help because she genuinely needs it, but too many leeches are ripping the system down. We've got plenty of our own issues with this over here. Biggest problem that I've seen is that government assistance is currently given in the form of a debit card with little to no limitations on use. Unemployment cards can be cashed at any bank, and the cash can be spent on whatever. There are similar problems with the welfare cards as well, not really any major limitation as to what they can be used on. And too many people are all too happy to just stay at home and keep collecting their free money. This is just a bit of the problems that we face in my home state of Louisiana.

[shootemindehead]

It isn't the freeloaders on welfare that you need to be looking at. You need to lift your head and look up towards the higher echelons. They're the fuckers at the heart of the problem. Blaming people on welfare for a nations financial situation is ridiculous, but it's a convenient target for those in power to redirect taxpayers attention toward. Over here, I keep hearing the same old shite all the time about people on social welfare, that they're scroungers and their dole should be cut, etc. One idiot I used to know was all about this and lo and behold, he lost his job, when the company he was working for decided to feck off somewhere else and he was forced to go on the dole, because there was nothing available for him. He's now singing a very different tune. The dole "lifestylers" are the absolute minority in any western nation. To the vast majority of people, being forced onto welfare is not a choice, or a position they wish to be in. It's usually something that falls upon them. Maybe in the States it's a different story, because there's more than likely work to be had. But here in Ireland, there isn't a great deal of options for a lot of people at the present time. As I said there's half a million people on welfare here, but it's not as if there's that many jobs going a begging. But, really this attitude by some people who wish to blame society's ills on welfare recipients boils MY piss. Surprise, surprise, but I'm with Mike on this one (got any Irish in you Mike? Maybe we are separated at birth. I might have to start calling you Mick instead!). I don't mind my taxes going in the right direction. One of those directions is helping the people of my society that are less fortunate than I am and if there are some gits that abuse the system, then I'll live with that. ALL systems are abused, but the systems that are abused by people on welfare pale in comparison to the systems that are abused by bankers, politicians and all the other usual suspects.

[Mike70]

Surprise, surprise, but I'm with Mike on this one (got any Irish in you Mike? Maybe we are separated at birth. I might have to start calling you Mick instead!). I don't mind my taxes going in the right direction. One of those directions is helping the people of my society that are less fortunate than I am and if there are some gits that abuse the system, then I'll live with that. ALL systems are abused, but the systems that are abused by people on welfare pale in comparison to the systems that are abused by bankers, politicians and all the other usual suspects. i have Irish blood on my Mom's side. My dad's folks are all English/Scottish. maybe that's why i'm so conflicted as a person. i totally agree about the taxes. like i said, i don't mind one bit helping to pay for people less fortunate than i am and i have been very fortunate solely because of birth. i've never once been in the position that many folks have and are in - jobs sold out from under them to countries that engage in little more than wage slavery, all the while just so some bastards can get richer and exercise their "right" to make money. people get squeezed harder every year and politicians instead of coming up with constructive ways to close the gap between the rich and poor, create jobs, and programs to better educate people use the least fortunate people in society as scapegoats for their own greed, arrogance, and stupidity. it's enough to make one sick. the only time i've ever "lost" what i've had is during my divorce and, well, that is just the nature of that game. none of us can be smug about these things and think we are above them or it will never happen to us. you can be the most industrious, hard working person in the world and life can throw you a curve ball that will buckle your knees and leave you bailing off the plate.

[shootemindehead]

i have Irish blood on my Mom's side. My dad's folks are all English/Scottish. maybe that's why i'm so conflicted as a person. Ha ha...Mick it is so!

[Christopher Jon]

A simple first step is to buy products made in your country and support local businesses, even if it costs more. Support your neighbor and he'll support you.