" Police" at the dock?

[darth los]

After watching Dawn 78' extended version again last night a thought crept up on me. It seems the scene with the Joe Pilato led "police" is ambiguous and can be interpreted in atleast one different way. If taken at face value one could say that they were just "police" who were running just as the protaganists of the film were. However if you look a little a little deeper there might be something more sinister going on. My theory is that Pilato and company could be a bunch of thugs who were in the midst of stealing the uniforms,guns, equiptment and supplies we saw them with when Fran and stephen stumbled upon the scene. Ok, first off, there has been much speculation on how the dead bodies at the police dock came to be that way, especialy the dead cop who was siting by the radio. The first body they come across is a man wearing a jacket, blue jeans and boots. I'm thinking this was one of pilato's crew who was killed in the raid of the dock. the officer by the radio was crept up on and shot in the head. I think if Pilato and co. were really cops they would not have killed their fellow officer if he was not okay with what was going on. I mean, After roger asked peter if he wanted to run I don't think he would have killed him if he would have said no. I think he would have said " ok dude, suit yourself." Second When they ambush stephen and fran it's almost like they heard the chopper and decided to hide out being as how they all seem to pop out of the woodwork. Surely if they were police they had a perfect right to be there. The wide eyed thug pops out of the back of the truck and says "Just stay cool". Not freeze or show me some i.d.or even what are you doing here. Seems a rather poor choice of words for law enforcement. furtherore, Two of Pilato's men call him skipper. That's a name more appropriate for a sea captain not a cop. When stephen tries to explain why they are there and about the dead bodies Pilato totally blows him off and says "Steve Andrews!" He's Not even interested in what he had to say. When they realize that it's a squad car rolling up Pilato looks to his men and says "It's ok we're "police", as if to say,there not gonna mess with us if they think we're cops so calm down. He adds, "Your running anrdews ,eh?". The look that stephen gives him is totally priceless, like he knows this is all bull s hite. Pilato picks up on this, that stephen has put 2 and 2 together and that they might be busted. When roger questions him about what the problem is he says " we caught your friends here stealing company gasoline." He makes no mention of the dead bodies , as if consciously not trying to bring it up, or else he might have alot of explaining to do. If they were really cops, which do you think that they would be more concerned about, some stolen gas or a couple of dead fellow officers? He also adds "now it would be crazy to start shooting at one another wouldn't it?" a very curiously nervous thing to say. And when they feel that the ruse is working Pilato taps stephen on the stomach as if to say " i know you know, just be cool and there won't be a shoot out. His subordinate that is next to him seems really nervous and also fails to make eye contact like he is hiding something and can't wait to get out of there. It seems that roger picks up on this as well, with the smile he is wearing during the exchange. When they make their way to the boat Pilato says, "good luck swat" again a very formal term to use when addressing you're bretheren. Later on in the film When peter and roger hear stephen shooting , peter yells " what the hell was that?" Roger replies " I don't know , Fuzz maybee?" He calls the police fuzz, not swat or police. Very odd. Like i said , these are just theories. After you've read what i said go back and watch the scene. What i typed is only half the story. You have to look at the body language and expressions especially during the part where everyone has their guns drawn. It looked like a very tense situation. What do you guys think?

[Eyebiter]

Agree with the theory the cops at the dock weren't legitimate.

[Phildogger]

for years, All I had was the theatrical cut. I thought for 10 years that flyboy had killed that cop.

[Griff]

for years, All I had was the theatrical cut. I thought for 10 years that flyboy had killed that cop. Not an entirely uncommon misperception. I've never understood it myself since there's nothing to suggest Stephen did anything but find the body. He even radios in "operator dead, post abandoned", which would be kinda foolish if you were the culprit. But, like I said, you're not alone with your assumption.

[Philly_SWAT]

All right darth los! This is the kind of post that I like, long and talking about a theory. I have considered this question before just like you. I think that everything you said is logical and makes perfect sense. I am not sure in my mind if Pilato and company were indeed cops, or just some thugs that donned cop uniforms they found at the dock. Since you have done such a good job stating the case for them being thugs, I will give my thought on why they might have very well been cops, and see what the rest of the posts in this thread bring as far as what everyone else thinks. I think that with the chaos that was reigning in Philly at the time, that anyone could have killed the guy in the jacket and the cop before any of the characters in the scene arrived at the dock. That is one piece of backstory that we will never know, just like how did two zombie kids end up in that airport closet. As organized socity fell further and further into a state of collapse, Pilato and his crew could have been city cops who figured they would go to the docks, see if there were any suppplies there, and "borrow" a boat to get offshore to survive. When they arrived, they saw two dead bodies, one a cop. If Pilato and his men had similiar experiences in the last three weeks as Roger and Peter, they may have been somewhat immune to seeing a dead body or two laying around. There was nothing they could do to help their fallen officer, and went about their business of preparing to take a boat and leave. When they heard the chopper landing, they decided to hide, not knowing exactly who was landing or why. Was it some other cops, who may still be functioning within the framework of "normal society", who would frown upon their actions of stealing supplies and a boat? Or could it be cops, or civilians, who were looking to do the same same as Pilato and may just shoot first and ask questions later. It would be a prudent thing to do to stay hidden and see who was in the chopper and what their intentions were. If they were cold-blooded enough to shoot a fellow cop who was still sitting at the radio station, why hesitate to kill Fran and Flyboy? As far as their choice of words and their "right to be there", well, a shopowner would have all the right in the world to be in his own shop, but if he saw some people coming up to his shop in the midst of the zombie chaos, who knows what he would do? He may decide to act however he thinks it benefits him to survive. If he were to say "I own this shop, get out", he may just be killed for his efforts. If he were to take the tack that he was just there "looking for supplies", he may be seen to be a fellow survivor, and not killed. This can account for Pilato and crew's odd behavior. By saying "just stay cool" instead of "freeze police", they may have considered themselves "thieves and bad guys" by this point, and did not have any more thoughts of conformity to authority existing anymore, so did not put up the pretense. When Flyboy starts talking about the bodies, Pilato and crew may have been so hardened by blasting their way into tenement buildings, blowing away countless zombies, many who may have been people they used to know, and were totally immune to thinking or caring about things like this at that point. Sure, there were a couple of dead bodies around there, but they would have seen countless dead bodies in the last three weeks. So he just ignores that comment, and shows Flyboy that he recognizes him as a TV guy, not a tough guy. When Roger and Peter roll up, and he says "its Ok we're police" he may have said that with a sense of irony, that back in the "normal days" they were in fact police, although right this second, they were acting very un-policelike. Again, for all they knew, Roger and Peter may have been there to do the same thing they were (which in fact they were, in essense stealing a WGON chopper, and police gasoline, to escape the city) or were there to "arrest" Pilato for stealing. Either way, a shootout was possible, so Pilato and his men tried to play it cool until they discovered the intentions of the inhabitents of the squad car. As far as calling Pilato "skipper", again, we dont know any backstory to that. As cop buddies before the outbreak, Pilato could have owned a boat and the guys went out on it with him, hence a nickname of "skipper". Or since he was in charge of their group, they may have just started calling him skipper since they were stealing a boat. As far as Pilato saying "good luck SWAT" I dont think that is odd at all. As regular uniform officers, it would be normal to refer to SWAT guys as SWAT guys. More respectful that Roger later saying "fuzz maybe", as fuzz is a slang word for cops. That seems more odd to me, as it would be even more weird if Roger had said "I dont know, the pigs maybe?" In any event, both explanation seem plausible to me.

[MaximusIncredulous]

Now who wants to handle the theory of how "skipper" snuck his way into the Army and became Capt. Rhodes .

[jim102016]

Great theory....I never really understood that part of the movie until the extended version came out. I don't think they're cops, maybe Longshoremen, shipbuilders, or perhaps crews from the many ships going and coming from Philadelphia's commercial port. I grew up outside of Philadelphia, and I remember what a huge impact the former Philadelphia Naval Yard had on the area. Those guys could have easily been former Navy...god knows what was going on there at any period during the Cold War, it was a big place. Last time I flew home, I drove back from the airport along side dozens of mothballed aircraft carriers and different types of ships.

[hadrian0117]

Now who wants to handle the theory of how "skipper" snuck his way into the Army and became Capt. Rhodes . He made it to Florida, but decided (re)joining the Army was his best chance at safety. Due to massive causalties he was given field/brevet promotions until he became a Captain. Either that or he had a twin brother .

[Chakobsa]

When I first saw the extended cut I got the impression that Pilato and co. hadn't killed the radio operator or the other dead guy, I always liked to think of them as a bunch of chancers taking advantage of the deserted dock rather than a bunch of ruthless killers. I think this is borne out by their change in demeanor when they realize that Flyboy and co aren't a threat to them.

[Danny]

Now who wants to handle the theory of how "skipper" snuck his way into the Army and became Capt. Rhodes . thats what id like to know

[Philly_SWAT]

Now who wants to handle the theory of how "skipper" snuck his way into the Army and became Capt. Rhodes . At least he didnt refer to the cigarette guy as "little buddy"......

[MaximusIncredulous]

At least he didnt refer to the cigarette guy as "little buddy"...... If he had said that, I would've prayed to the god Romero for Dawn to focus on those goofy guys instead of the boring mall heroes.

[Philly_SWAT]

If that had happened, instead of the great Goblin music, we could have heard something like this.... Just sit right back and you'll hear a tale A tale of a zombie plague That started at a po-lice dock During a ransack raid The mate was a cigarette smoking man The "Skipper" brave and sure Five men who were cops, or just rogue thugs Wanted to keep their blood pure. Just keep their blood pure. The zombies started getting rough Their tiny craft was tossed If not for the fact they were low on rounds They'd blow some heads off. They'd blow some heads off. Their ship set ground on a shore of a well-charted Pittsburgh isle With cigarette guy The Skipper too No millionaires And no wives No movie stars Just the rest Right here on zombie-free isle

[MaximusIncredulous]

Might be an interesting idea for a spin-off TV series. The wacky antics of Cigarette Guy, "Skipper", and Cigar Guy. From time to time guest stars could mysteriously wash up on the island and disappear by the end of the show. Beats Survivor anyhoo.

[Danny]

If that had happened, instead of the great Goblin music, we could have heard something like this.... Just sit right back and you'll hear a tale A tale of a zombie plague That started at a po-lice dock During a ransack raid The mate was a cigarette smoking man The "Skipper" brave and sure Five men who were cops, or just rogue thugs Wanted to keep their blood pure. Just keep their blood pure. The zombies started getting rough Their tiny craft was tossed If not for the fact they were low on rounds They'd blow some heads off. They'd blow some heads off. Their ship set ground on a shore of a well-charted Pittsburgh isle With cigarette guy The Skipper too No millionaires And no wives No movie stars Just the rest Right here on zombie-free isle err......yeah, indeed.